smokingzen

Class, the Craig Gardner story had me in stiches too!

As posted previously I think Klinsmann would be a great choice. The thought of him getting all the players to meditate and do Yoga makes me laugh too! I think he is very settled in California now though and it might be quite hard to prise him away from there.

That's quite scary! Surely that must mean that they know something? I'm getting horrible thoughts now, Steven Ireland arriving tomorrow, to meet up with his old manager.......Sven! :shock:

I would love Klinsmann to become manager. He is the antithesis of MON and I think his footballing philosophy is great. He likes fast flowing counter attacking football but in a more modern flowing and technical sense than MON. He is also the epitome of a modern forward thinking manager that brings a lot of new ideas to the table regarding coaching, training and player development. His philosophy is also to integrate the youth, reserve and senior teams by getting them to all play the same type of football so that the reserves become a natural feeder team for the senior team and will be able to easily fit in because they have been brought up playing the same style of football. I'm sure he would be the perfect manager to bring some of our youth through the ranks. I think that is the kind of footballing philosophy we need at the club, Villa would begin to develop a certain style of football that we could call our own. I think he is also a manger that would fit well with most of the players we have at the club and be able to utilise them well and develop their tactical and technical sides to improve them and get the best out of them. He got a lot of stick when he first became Germany's manager, he made some big style changes to the whole set up of the national team, but they eventually paid off and he was pretty much lauded a national hero after the previous world cup for his achievements there. People mention Bayern as a negative point, but there he was given under a year, which didn't actually do too badly at all, and again he had made massive changes to the whole structure of the clubs footballing set up that had not been fully incorporated and come to fruition when he was sacked. I think given the time he would get us playing fast paced, intelligent technical football that would be great to watch. I think he is also the kind of progressive thinker that Randy would like, and would fit in well with the clubs structure. I'm sure he would also have some good scouting networks and be able to bring some very good players to the club. A couple of good articles on him by the BBC. Link 1 Link 2

A subliminal slip maybe? Remember, if Klinsmann does come, don't mention the war!

Well there are a lot of managers I would be happy with but only a few at this juncture in this time that are realistic targets. Bilic or Kilnsmann I think are the two obvious candidates at the moment. Both are very good technically minded managers that are relatively young and ambitious, both get teams playing exciting creative football too. Both though have no experience managing in the premier league and relatively little managerial experience overall, especially at club level. I think however that is the type of gamble we need to take at the moment, most of the managers that have previously managed in the premier league are either taken, or we wouldn't want them anyway, and it would be very hard to get a big manager in at the present time. I think either of the above would be a good choice for us and be able to take us forward. I think Randy will want a more progressive and modern manager in place that can take the club forward in line with his business plan. MON was just too old school and "Clough" like in his approach to management. From transfer dealings, to squad rotation, youth development and the style of football we play. We need someone then that can get better signings, utilise the squad better, bring the youth through and have a more developmental approach with them, and get us playing better football. Oh and of course, get results and improve us! Not an easy job, but who ever comes in has an extremely solid base with which to work. Randy and MON have done a great job over the last few years , on and off the field, but we've now hit a wall. In that situation MON had to go, he could no longer operate within the framework of the club, and more importantly, the club could no longer operate with him at the managerial helm. This then is where Randy Lerner really has to show his metal, the decisions about who we get as our next manager, and which players come and go in the next few weeks will determine the direction we take for the next few years and could be the defining point of his ownership of the club. As a few others have mentioned, I can't help but think that it's going to be Klinsmann though, he seems to tick all the boxes.

Well it's perfectly obvious, we are a 666 club and that's the number of the beast! What more proof do we need that the devil is amongst us?

I'm not sure anyone has said they care more about performances than results, you are really presenting a false dichotomy, you can have good football and good results. In fact you will generally find that the two go together and that those teams that are the most successful are those that play the best football. The style of football we have played in recent seasons has taken us just about as far as it can IMO. If it were just about results then I wouldn't bother watching the games, I would just look at the results and our table position. As it is I want to watch our games and be entertained not pained. The club's business model is based upon sustainable growth, that ultimately relies upon maintaining and broadening our fan base, we won't do that playing unattractive football. I think MON has forged a solid hard working and organised team, with some exciting talent mixed into the bag, over the last couple of years. That's an important foundation for a team to do well, now we have to move that on a step a play better football consistently, that will rely upon better ball possession and more guile in the team. I think there are a lot of good arguments for why this need to be the case. I think MON could possibly do that with 3 or 4 good signings over the next few weeks, hence why I think Milner's sale could be good for the club. One very good, put fairly industrial player out, with some players with better technique and creativity coming in. Whether MON will get those type of players in and then play them in a system that allows them to flourish remains to be seen. I think this is MON's big year at the club and indeed I think the next few weeks and whether or not he gets the right players in will determine where we go from here. One thing I don't think he can do though, is complain about lack of funds, he has had the money and the freedom to pretty much utilise it how he wants so he will have to stand by the decisions he has made. He's not had it as good as some managers, but he's had it better than most.

You've got to love this: Redknapp signs Russian Donkey

If he gets the right service and manages to stay fit then he has every chance of getting 20 plus goals. Some of the service he has received over the last couple of seasons has been shocking at times, the ball being regularly hoofed up to him above waist height whilst he's surrounded by defenders, and we wonder why he doesn't score more. I think I would get a bit despondent if I had to put up with that every game. I think though he has proven that when he gets the right service he gets us goals and will be a handful for any team. He could also do with a bit more protection from refs, i've lost count of the amount of times i've seen him fouled and then seen a free kick awarded against him.

Oh you mean the people that work with him and actually know him, such as the General?

Well I disagree with the premise behind your question, last season we were only a few points off of 4th and we reached a final and a semi final, whilst not utilising much of our squad at all. With three our four quality additions in then next month we could be in a similar or stronger position again. If i had to choose, then top four, as that is what would progress the club the most. The reality is we have to push to go as far as we can in all competitions as the further we go, the more much needed revenue we bring into the club.

Where was this stated?

I don't think they have lied, i do however think they have been very selective in their words and what they have told us so we can jump to conclusions. Lied no, been disingenious, yes. A few examples: To the media: "We have told James Milner we want him to stay at the club." To Milner: "James we want you to stay at the club however if a big money offer comes in from City we might just have to take it." To the media: "James has intimated he wants to go" To Milner: "So if a big offer comes in from City and we were happy to take the cash would you be willing to go?" Milner: "Well possibly boss." No lies told, but certainly things put in a misleading fashion.

If a player says he is not interested in a contract, then the club offer him a contract as a means of desperation - I think that is when a player is deemed bigger than the club. I think you'll find if you listen to or read the MON interview he said that he 'thinks' Milner's agent said he would not sign a new contract, but that he wasn't there so he isn't sure! He also said Milner 'intimated' he wanted to go, not that he said he wanted to go, or that he wanted to leave. So essentially neither MON or the club have actually said outright in concrete terms that Milner refused to sign new contract or that he actually wants to leave. Everything has however been put in a manner in which these things are infered. An old ploy, suggest something without actually saying it, so you can always deny that isn't what you meant or what you said, and protect yourself from libel in the process. Yeh MON's a real straight up guy!

Ah, I see... Schrödinger's Petrov. Yes he's both a good player and a bad player, but we can't tell which until we look in the box. Problem is, he never gets in the box!

Guardian Article No direct quotes attributable to Milner though.

Rubbish mate, you go back and read it. It simply isn't the case. We currently have players that are no longer in our plans...they need to go. It isnt sell to buy..but easier to dress it up like that, as you are doing. We just need an end to this now, there's not alot of time left if we need to replace him. A direct quote from MON yesterday taken from the radio interview on the BBC website: “I've just mentioned earlier there, we are in a position, probably at this moment where we'd have to sell to buy, it's not ideal, ermm particularly if your going to keep challenging, but if that's the reality of it that's the reality of it.” That sounds to me, the probability of the reality of it, is in all probability, the reality is we have to sell to buy. Ermmm I think that's fairly clear. MON seems to call this sell to buy, Randy seems to call it good business acumen, they're both right. I do agree however that we need to get this done ASAP so we can get the players MON wants in by the last day of the transfer window.

My previous post was rather long wasn't it. I've far too much time on my hands at the moment as I'm off, somewhat ironically, with an inured hand! I hope I posted in the correct format, I was hoping some of the comments would be replied to, but I was more trying to take a selection of comments and show how a large consensus of people in this thread seem to be jumping to conclusions considering the actual information we have. Rob182 – Bravo! All the quotes I used tried to keep the meaning of the context they were initially stated in, and I believe were complete sentences, unlike your little story, of all the right words, just not in the right order. I also tried to answer valid points, whilst it would seem you are merely posting for effect. * Disclaimer - I presume Rob182 was posting for effect and that was not the extent of his grammatical ability. Pelle – there was certainly no intention to either stop people replying to my thread, I'm actually trying to stimulate debate, or intentionally cut away your post to further my argument, I was highlighting the salient point I wanted to discuss there. To answer your points however: Please go back to the Randy interviews, and also review subsequent comments from MON, the General and himself. The crux is we have to sell to buy, though they don't really like to use those words, and unless there are exceptional circumstances, there will be no new cash from Randy's pockets. Admittedly he said Milner was going to remain a Villa player, though what else is he going to say? No, we're selling Milner! Then risk this kind or ire directed at the club for selling one of our best players and alert other clubs we are actively looking to offload him, therefore reducing his value? I love Villa, I think we have an excellent chairman, a good manager and I respect Milner. Maybe you should read the last part of what I posted above properly. Milner hasn't “said he wants to leave” and MON hasn't said he has, he has said he “intimated” he wants to go, completely different. It would seem the subtlety of this difference is lost on quite a few people. One of the things I've been trying to highlight. I also haven't said MON or anyone else has done any wrong, hence I stated IMO there was no blame to apportion as it's a good bit of business all round. What I do think is wrong however is for fans to jump to conclusions and vilify a player (mmm staring to wonder about the origins of that word) based upon bugger all evidence whatsoever. Def:- Villafy - To make vicious and defamatory statements about a player that is leaving Aston Villa FC because you can't handle that fact he is leaving even though you are not fully aware of the circumstances of his departure.

What a spectacular thought, why don't you run with it for a while. Why? Randy and MON have both said we essentially need to, and will, sell to buy, so where's all this money to buy coming from? And why, if Milner is just a money grabbing Judas, does he give a toss what any Villa fan would think? He wouldn't. There is no loyalty bonus at stake, that would only become a factor if he handed in an official transfer request. So can you tell me where exactly would the money come from if we don't sell Milner? Again, why would Milner give a toss what the fans think if he doesn't give a toss what the fans think and just interested in money? Also it's not been said that he “asked to leave” but that he “intimated he wanted to go”, there is a world of difference in those words. Would it? Why would it be a ridiculous move from the club to force through a money bags move to get 25 million plus for a player most of us admit isn't worth that? That sounds like a good move. And do you really think that any player would speak out and risk the MON treatment if that were the case? MON hasn't lied, the fact is hasn't even explicitly stated what most people think he has. The fact the MON used phrases such as Milner 'intimated' he wanted to go and he 'thinks' he refused a new contract are suspicious in themselves. Plus if Milner was unsure of wanting to go, as all the player interviews suggested, then we couldn't force him to go and bang goes our transfer kitty for the summer. Force the hand, create a rift with some 'implied' comments and then there would seem like little option. Milner goes, we get an amazingly good deal and a big transfer kitty and the club can escape the ire of fans for getting rid of one of our best players whilst Milner shoulders all then blame. The club must be loving the fact that so many fans have swallowed it hook line and sinker. Now open wide everyone and say aahhhhhh. Does 25 million plus for a club that has pretty much stated there is no excess money to spend and that we have to “sell to buy” sound a just enough cause to you? Ah well this puts a different slant on the whole thing, can you point me to the quotes where “he clearly stated that he does not want to be here” as I obviously missed those. Ah obvious is it, can you point me to the evidence that makes this so obvious? I like MON, but I also think the club are forcing Milner out, I expect MON wants him to stay but also wants some proper cash to spend, so Randy would have said your choice MON, keep Milner and no money to spend, sell Milner and have 25 million plus. MON begrudgingly opts for the latter option judging that he can do more with the cash than with Milner alone. Which IMO is the correct option. Maybe you should read or listen to the interview again, the only one of those three statements expressed as fact was that Villa will let him go for the right price. Yes and it would seem most will find a way of blaming the Milner for the transfer regardless of any evidence or lack of. The point is, is there actually any blame to apportion here? Villa buy player for 12 million, get two good seasons out of him, then sell him on for 25 million. Where's the blame? It's just that some fans can't face up to the fact that this is what we need to do as a club to progress considering our explicitly stated financial situation and policy. It suits many fans then, despite there being no evidence, to make out Milner and Man City as the bad guys and the club as having their hand forced. Cue some pretty pathetic and unfounded vitriol. It suits the club to let the gullible fans believe this because then it's a win win situation, loads of money and no blame for getting rid of one of our top players. We wouldn't want to be seen as lacking ambition or anger the fans, this might affect season tickets sales, that would affect the grand plan.

If true this latest report would back up the theory of events i posted earlier. I can't understand why so many people are so blind to the idea that the club, or Randy at least, WANT to sell James Milner and approached him with exactly that proposition and he agreed to it in principle. If you listen to, or read, the recent interview with MON, it doesn't say anything that is inconsistent with that. His words do however seem carefully chosen so that they are interpreted as Milner trying to force an exit. He mentions that Milner intimated he wanted to go to Man City, but doesn't mention whether or not we asked him if he wanted to go first and whether the club even encouraged the idea as it would be good "sell to buy" business for the club. He says that he "thinks" Milner's agent said he would not sign a new contract, meaning that he's not sure if this is actually the case. MON isn't usually so ambiguous about these things unless there's good reason to be. He then goes on to say that unfortunately there is a sell to buy policy and we are looking to buy to strengthen. It should be perfectly obvious that this transfer has been on the cards since the end of the season and was probably the cause of the rumoured spat between MON and Randy at that time. It would have been known since then that a sell to buy policy meant we would have to sell a big player at the club and that player would probably have to be Milner. We knew Man City had a firm interest in him and so he would be our best chance of generating the most money, money needed to strengthen the team. After all, I doubt we are going to get much for any of the other players we are trying to sell. The fact that MON has now come out, stiched him up and pretty much kicked him on to the doorstep and shouted at Man City to come and get him, seems to me that we want this deal done and were going to make sure it happens. Preferably sooner rather than later so we can get on with bringing players in. There's even a good case to argue that Milner wasn't even sure whether he wanted to go or not, but has been pushed anyway. Many of the players in recent interviews gave the impression that he was still considering whether or not to go and weighing up his options. This doesn't tally with the idea that his mind was made up at the end of last season as MON implied. Unless of course all of those players were lieing. MON hasn't spoken to Milner since the end of last season, strange in its self. So i'm sure the players, some of whom are his mates, would know better. It's also strange that considering the situation MON has had no contact whatsoever with Milner since the end of the season. This is the MON that loves to get involved in transfers. Seems almost as though he has or wants nothing to do with this deal and it's being carried out begrudgingly without him by the club. Believe me, there's much more to this than meets the eye if you care to look.

Glad to see some sensible posts on here. If you listen to the full interview by MON on the BBC website you can tell MON is phrasing things in such a way as to be ambiguous as to the reasons behind the potential sale. He says Milner came to him and intimated that he wanted to go to Man City phrasing it in such a way to make it sound as though the request just came out of the blue, where as we know any approach would have had to come through the club first and we would have to have asked Milner if he was interested. If we weren't interested in this i doubt Milner would have even been asked if he wanted to go, he would have been told we were keeping him for another year or running down his contract. MON says he wanted to keep Milner, but then says unfortunately we have to sell to buy, and that he wants to buy new players to strengthen the club. A bit of a dig at Randy IMO and a sure sign that we actually want to sell him from a financial point of view. I'm sure this has been on the cards ever since the "rumours" of a spat between Randy and MON and now they are just setting the scene for next week and maybe trying to redirect the blame. If the club wanted him to go becasue they considered it a good bit of business but he refused, what would people think then? People talk of loyalty, where is the loyalty from some of the fans in giving a player that has hardly put a foot wrong since he has been here the benefit of the doubt? But no, people are quick to judge on the basis of pretty much no evidence what so ever.

I must say that I would find much of this hilarious if some of the comments on here weren't so damn right disgraceful, it only takes a few Chinese whispers to get the lynch mobs mobilised doesn't it. Currently, pretty much the only concrete quotes we have are quotes such as these: “I had a conversation with James before the World Cup and he intimated that he'd like to go," "I'd imagine things will be resolved in foreseeable future." "City made an offer but it did not meet our valuation.” "I'm sure matters will be resolved soon. James is back next week having had extended holiday." “As the chairman mentioned, maybe it is a case of probably having to sell to buy. That is something I’m delving into at the moment" So lets imagine how the conversation referred to above possibly went: MON: “James, Man City have been enquiring about the possibility of buying you this summer, whilst we obviously think you are a tremendous player, very valuable to the club and someone we would deem to be a key player for us over the next few years, considering the money available to them, Man City might make an offer for you the club would deem too good to refuse. Would you want, or be willing, to join them if such an offer comes in?” Milner: “Well boss, as you know I've been very happy here over the last couple of years, you have given me some great stability over that time, helped improve my wing play and also played me in the middle where last season I felt I could really express myself and haven developed even further as a player. I've got to say that I would be perfectly happy to stay here, it's a great club with a great chairman, manager and some great players and fans, though of course the opportunity to join Man City is a very exciting one. Man City look like they are on their way to becoming one of the biggest clubs in the world, they already have some top world class players at the club and undoubtedly will be challenging for the Premiership title and possibly European honours within the next few years. I think any player would be excited at the prospect of being part of that, and whilst it's got a very competitive squad already, which will probably only get stronger, I have the confidence in my ability that I could work my way into the team and also develop further as a player with such class players around me. I'm sure the money would be pretty good as well! I've got to say then that it's a pretty attractive proposition for me as well then boss.” MON: “Ok thanks James, I have to reiterate how much we value you and what a loss we think you would be to the club, I think you have been absolutely fabulous, obviously then it's going to have to be an amazingly good offer for us to accept, you will be a hard player to replace. I feel confident however that we can come to an arrangement that would be mutually beneficial for all parties concerned. We will take this further now and see what develops, obviously the world cup is coming up so we can can get this all firmly resolved once you return to the club after your holidays.” And so here we are. Obviously the above is completely made up but IMO it possibly represents something similar to real life events. I think it is highly likely the club want to sell him, 2 years great service and a return of double our initial outlay is some pretty good business, especially if we can replace him for half that return and strengthen the club further. Indeed it falls within the business model set out by Randy recently and the last quote of Mon's above reiterates that policy. A few of the previous posts made statements such as “after Milner's actions” “Milner should put up or shut up” yet he has done nothing or said nothing and no one on here knows the actual true context of the quotes we do have. And yet what do some fans on here do? Come out with some absolutely disgraceful comments about a player that as far as we actually know based upon the evidence, has been a model professional since he has been at the club and might even be doing what the club want him to by going to Man City. Some off the fans on here go on about loyalty, maybe they should consider that loyalty should be a two way thing.

How so? Everything to date has really been speculation, though obviously the various comments made by MON and other players indicate there is some truth to some of the speculation. Nothing though has really suggested that Milner really wants to go, I'm sure he can see the pros and cons of both staying and going and would probably be happy with either scenario. I think the good thing is that both Milner and the club are fairly decent when it comes to these type of things and will have a mutual understanding and agreement of the various possibilities and scenarios. IMO a perfectly amicable agreement will have been reached between Milner and the club that if City offer a certain amount of money we will sell him to them and Milner would be in agreement about it. I'm sure that he is also aware that such a fee this summer would be inflated because of his importance to the club. I expect that because of this there would also be an agreement that if no sale does go through this summer, then we would offer him a new improved and extended contract (which has been mentioned) but with guarantees that should he wish he could leave for a more moderate price next summer. Even if such a contract were not taken, which i believe it would be, we would still recoup our initial investment next summer. And even if that didn't come off we could keep him for then final year of his contract and we will have had the services of an excellent player for four seasons for a very reasonable fee. To me then our position looks very strong.

Would love to see Albrighton start in place of Young, but of course he won't. Yes it would be a risk and require a large set of cojones but I think it could pay off. Back to the real world, i think the main thing today is that if Milner plays in the middle, he actually plays in the middle and doesn't go wandering as he did in the Arsenal game. He has been the key to our recent form but watching that game i couldn't help but notice that every time he got the ball he seemed to be out on the wing, so essentially we were playing with three wingers and Petrov was left isolated in the middle for that game.