Ghost_of_Pongo_Waring

The two most expensive summer signings, making up over half the spend, are injured. So that'd explain the first part. Take your logic elsewhere. It's not welcome! Okore probably would be. So one of our summer signings probably would have been a regular first team starter. Dam that logic. How is Luna not a regular starter? Well he obviously isn't now seeing as Bertrand has come in What happens in the future isn't the point though. Bertrand could get injured, suspended or just simply lose form. BJ said none of our summer signings are regular starters. Luna has been a regular starter up to now.

The two most expensive summer signings, making up over half the spend, are injured. So that'd explain the first part. Take your logic elsewhere. It's not welcome! Okore probably would be. So one of our summer signings probably would have been a regular first team starter. Dam that logic. How is Luna not a regular starter?

So Lambert has had just 3m to spend since he became our manager? That's very obviously not what was meant. Lambert has a budget and a squad to fill. You take a portion of the budget per position and decide on a player by player basis and judge your most pressing needs at the time. Now that we need less players (arguably) and cover for the left might be nice this makes sense. Having spent less on two previous players in the same position has abso-****-nothing to do with potentially spending more on a player in the future for the same position. If the only gap we had to plug was a LB and given the same budget as before then it would make more sense to portion a higher percentage of it to filling that role. Had he spent more on a LB at the time and missed out on Benteke, for example, then things would be different, no? No, he could have kept Fonz at the club instead of purchasing Bowery or Helenius. He could have kept Albrighton at the club instead of purchasing Tonev and he could have gotten an LB on loan instead of wasting more money on Bennet and Luna who he has now replaced with a loan. Bowery cost peanuts and has given 100% and done ok whenever called upon. Helenius is much more of a prospect than Fonz who is championship standard at best. Both of these were bought as squad players and for the future - we will make money on them if they are sold He did keep Albrighton and loaning him to Wigan was the kick up the arse he needed and no he's back in the first team squad Bertrand is a clear step up in quality to both Bennett and Luna. Bennett started to play well at the end of last season but has been long term injured and is still injured. Luna has struggled defensively but also lacked cover in front of him, so bringing Bertrand in makes perfect sense. It is also possible that Bertrand could play in front of Luna giving him the cover that he has lacked so far Tonev was Petrov's recommendation and I assume Lambert took a punt on him. He has been poor so far and not showing any sign of coming good. You win some you lose some. Albrightons loan wasn't, in my opinion, a kick up the arse. He's been injured for almost all the time since Lambert arrived and it was an ideal way to get him up to speed and get some match fitness. He wasn't however available for selection so to use him as a reason why Lambert shouldn't have brought Tonev, as Morpheus has done, is strange to say the least.

No one's using it as an "excuse", it just needs to be taken into account when evaluating his purchases and how much responsibility he bears for them. It also needs to be recognised that not only does not every transfer work out but when you are having to spend relatively small amounts on players then it's likely that more players will either not work out or need patience.

Have you looked at the league table lately?

Don't think anybody is claiming "it's all good". Don't know how you can say there were no positives. It was a defeat yeah and there are a lot of things to be annoyed about (mainly these moments of self destruction) but we did play well in the second half. Just because we lost doesn't mean everything has to be all doom and gloom. Its doom and gloom because we've won 11 in 49 at home under lambert not because we lost one game. We haven't played 49 home games under Lambert

The majority of sides have already played this weekend and unless Stoke beat Liverpool later we'll still be 11th but with tomorrows game in hand. The sides below us are there for a reason, they're doing worse than us this season, so far. They're unlikely to all start winning games especially as some of them will be playing other sides below us. We're not playing well, we've players out of form and other important players injured but we are still mid table. There's a lot of work to be done and we can't sit back and relax but things could be a great deal worse. I think we'll finish around where we are now, which will be an improvement on the last couple of seasons.

Because Helenius and Kozak have clearly had enough time to increase their value. Players signed and nothing else defined by poster I was replying to. But just reason would dictate that it's far too early in their time here to judge whether Villa could get a larger fee. I think you should direct that to the poster who made the original statement. Which is surely why he said "The vast majority of the players he signed are probably worth more than the fee we paid for them."

This time next week we could be three points off the drop-zone. I still think it is a bit early to declare whether we are overacheiving or not. No we couldn't. The worst we could be is four points above the relegation zone and the lowest we can drop is to 14th. My bad. Didn't realise that West Brom and Cardiff play each other. I was wrong as well, the lowest we can drop is 13th not 14th, as Hull and Stoke play each other.

This time next week we could be three points off the drop-zone. I still think it is a bit early to declare whether we are overacheiving or not. No we couldn't. The worst we could be is four points above the relegation zone and the lowest we can drop is to 14th.

Guzan had left the club and was back in the States when Lambert contacted him. That was stated by Guzan himself. What about Guzman? That really annoyed the hell out of me, Quinn constantly getting his name wrong. he's not the only commentator to do it either.

Guzan had left the club and was back in the States when Lambert contacted him. That was stated by Guzan himself.

So you'd get rid of Guzan? ..... and Okore ?

And you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to prove that he would have failed here. Conversely i have produced evidence as to why he would have been a successful signing which really cannot be argued with so no it isn't an assumption. Edit. He played for Spurs with young players and he played for Man U with younger players and was successful for both teams so your other point is eh, pointless. I've never said he would have failed here. I said, if you bother to actually read what was written, that it cannot be proved EITHER WAY and it's all just assumption. You haven't produced evidence of anything as there is no evidence of how he'd play at a club that he's never played for. You are assuming he'd play well for us, others are assuming he wouldn't.

Berbatov is a liability - he turns up for one in ten games - playing for a transfer in January at the moment We would have been relegated if we had signed Berbatov Not only biased but wrong. Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer last season with fifteen goals and no we wouldn't have been relegated as he would have had an even more positive affect than Keane did under McLeish. Pure assumption. Nope based on his form last season is not assuming anything and the way in which he played against us today again. Of course it's an assumption. So you think players play the same at whichever club they're at? So Ireland played as well for us as he did at Man city, Nzogbia as well for us as he did at Wigan? To say we would have been relegated with Berbatov or saying "he would have had an even more positive affect than Keane did under McLeish" is frankly ridiculous because nobody knows what would have happened if he'd signed for us. Yet he went to Fulham one of the less glamorous clubs in the Premiership with players similar to our own standard and scored fifteen goals. Therein lies the problem with your debate. He went to a Fulham team that's one of, if not the, oldest in the Prem. Full of experienced players. We are the youngest, and one of the most inexperienced, teams in the Prem. Even if the teams were carbon copies of each other there is still no guarantee that any form he had with one club would be replicated with another. Players form can vary massively between seasons with the same club, let alone at a different club. You cannot prove how we would have fared with Berbatov here. You cannot prove how well, or badly, Berbatov would have played here. Assumption : a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof:

Berbatov is a liability - he turns up for one in ten games - playing for a transfer in January at the moment We would have been relegated if we had signed Berbatov Not only biased but wrong. Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer last season with fifteen goals and no we wouldn't have been relegated as he would have had an even more positive affect than Keane did under McLeish. Pure assumption. Nope based on his form last season is not assuming anything and the way in which he played against us today again. Of course it's an assumption. So you think players play the same at whichever club they're at? So Ireland played as well for us as he did at Man city, Nzogbia as well for us as he did at Wigan? To say we would have been relegated with Berbatov or saying "he would have had an even more positive affect than Keane did under McLeish" is frankly ridiculous because nobody knows what would have happened if he'd signed for us.

Berbatov is a liability - he turns up for one in ten games - playing for a transfer in January at the moment We would have been relegated if we had signed Berbatov Not only biased but wrong. Berbatov was Fulham's top scorer last season with fifteen goals and no we wouldn't have been relegated as he would have had an even more positive affect than Keane did under McLeish. Pure assumption.

Norwich (a) 0-1 Man City (h) 3-2 And who said Luna is out, whats he done now ? Luna has got a slight groin strain

All these teams, and there 'style' have been built over seasons and in the case of Swansea, Newcastle and Saints have done some of the building work in the Championship.

Not a great deal more and Bowery has been here longer.

Exactly Last season everybody was saying that defense was a problem, which it was, but Lambert was incapable of building a defense. This season the defense has improved, it's not perfect but there is definite improvement. Lambert is not stupid so he'll be well aware that the home form is very poor and the tactics we're employing are not very easy on the eye. I'm sure that he'll be looking to address those issues as we progress but everything can't be fixed all at once. He should be given time, as long as there are tangible signs of improvement, to address these issues. Obviously the home situation is extremely important, it's where the majority of supporters pay to see us play and is the bed rock of success. Again Lambert will be well aware of this and I'd be surprised if it wasn't high up on his 'to do' list to sort this out.

I was the same when someone mentioned we've only lost two out of our last ten games and also when it was noticed we're the only team in the Prem to have not conceded more than two goals in a league game. Considering how bad we were defensively last season that shows how much we've improved that area of our game.

Of course they're going to have more passes when they have 77% of the possession. We did more with our 23% possession than they did with there 77%.

I very good post Dodgy and I think you could well be right. An interesting point I saw somebody make, although I can't remember who or on which forum, was that this more defensive, less attractive play has come in since Okore got injured. The three games before that we were playing a much different, more attractive, style, possibly because Lambert had faith in Okores ability to not make the defensive mistakes which plagued us last season. After three seasons of relegation battles it will do the squad the world of good to remain out of that battle this season and as you say as the season progresses more teams will be less inclined to park the bus because they will need victories.