Awol

Who put the lead in Trez’s boots?

Oh my....

Shouldn't underestimate them, but we've given the 'big' teams a bit too much respect imo, been psychologically intimidated and lost as a result. It's still just 11 blokes with 60K very quiet supporters. Get at them early and they'll all get nervy.

Villa win. McGinn is due a blinder and I reckon he might have it today.

Of course it's not. Ethics are performance art in the UK.

Can't win? It's pretty simple: we'll no longer allow live animals to be hung upside down and have their throats slashed then bled to death. Doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. If hunting a few 100 foxes with dogs is morally offensive (which it is) I don't know how anyone justifies halal slaughter.

I don't think Johnson reached his decision on the merits of the argument, but out of its utility to his career. That seems like a pretty fair analysis, but as you say if he does win and take us out of the EU then that makes him a Leaver by definition.

Fair enough. If we're talking about the small group of people who control or exert strong influence over the levers of power in UK, how should we describe them as a group? PS. You can't have, 'The Tories'

I feel your pain, man.

The banks, the big business lobby groups, all of the political parties, the vast majority of MP's and the Lords and the broadcast media were all pro-Remain. That's the establishment. Not sure how that's controversial at all, but it's certainly not dishonest. If that poll from YouGov yesterday is remotely accurate (and I'd be surprised if it is) then many solidly Labour seats in the Midlands and the North are going to the Conservatives and their pro-Brexit campaign. You mentioned "the working man", but those are stereotypical "working man" seats, and they voted Leave. Is that also a dishonest thing to say?

Yes, the establishment were vehemently pro-Leave, weren't they? Also, I thought we'd all agreed about 10 years ago that the rolling-eyes thing was a bit sh*t?

I genuinely have no idea what the beef is, but whatever floats your boat mate.

Darren, I don't presume that you agree with anything, ever. I was acknowledging your previous reply - which confirmed the NCA told the Electoral Commission to do-one, in so many words.

Oh they were guilty, alright. Guilty of winning a referendum against the establishment. Both sides were fined for breaching spending limits (though Grimes was later cleared in court) and as Snowy said, the Old Bill hoofed out allegations against Banks before getting to court because there was no case to answer. Edit: I forgot that after the referendum Priti Patel presented a dossier of the Remain campaign's overspending activities to the Electoral Commission and they refused to even look at it, but you know, they're fair, impartial and all that...

Ha, I didn't even know postal voting fraud was actually a thing in the US? From memory I think it was '04 or '05 when six(6!) Labour Councillors in our very own Aston were nabbed for harvesting postal votes from constituents and filling them in? As I remember they set up in a warehouse to do it, not exactly a kitchen table type effort! I definitely recall that after the shambles of voter fraud and intimidation at polling stations in Tower Hamlets 2015, the government commissioned a review into tackling electoral fraud, because the idea about voter identification at polling stations was one of the recommendations, in addition to clamping down on postal vote harvesting by activists (one wonders why the Labour government didn't address it after the situation in Aston was exposed, but I'm sure they had their reasons.) Point is Labour's people (politicians, activists, supporters) have form for it, and over an extended period. Not a nice thing to admit if that's the team you (not you specifically, of course) support, but there it is.

The Labour postal vote fraud gang in Peterborough were convicted and jailed by the criminal courts, not a bunch of retired Remainer politicians. Glad we’re agreed on the electoral commission, though!

The electoral commission is entirely partisan, thoroughly discredited by the spurious allegations it made against individuals on the Leave side of the referendum. Aaron Banks, Darren Grimes and Leave.EU we’re all cleared in court of false allegations made by the commission. It’s an establishment staffed quango with zero credibility.

A quick google reveals the dozens of articles addressing it in different constituencies and across many elections. The most recent example was the Peterborough by-Election, where Labour had a guy working on their local campaign who had previously been jailed for organising postal vote fraud, in the same constituency, on behalf of Labour. The authorities shy away from it where they can because it puts the whole system into disrepute.

Agreed. The poll doesn’t account for Labour’s not-so-secret weapon, massive postal vote fraud.

Those were the days, going down the NAAFI for furious debates about climate change and predatory capitalism... I’m on a third stint at Uni and drowning in leftie gibberish about intersectionality, not right-wing economic theory. Btw, my preferred pronouns are He/Hee (currently identify as Michael Jackson).

So they were words removed too. What about inviting terrorists from said organisation to parliament 2 weeks after the Brighton bombing? Actions of a future PM, or an ally of the IRA?

Not really, only a cold assessment of the facts. The world isn’t going to bend to Greta Thunberg’s will. The UK can’t fix it alone, however noble the ambition. That being the case we need to invest hugely in both domestic mitigation and tech’ development. The wider British-Jewish community clearly aren’t buying that. Given the fact he didn’t tighten up Labour’s approach to anti-Semitism until this summer, I don’t blame them.

Johnson is a racist t**t and has written things as a journalist that would earn him a smack in the chops outside his rarified social circle. No doubt. Corbyn not only voted against the Anglo-Irish Agreement, but two weeks after the IRA attempted to murder the British government in Brighton (killing 5, injuring 34) he invited two convicted IRA terrorists to Westminster - gloating, not ‘peacemaking’. You may disagree, but I don’t think they’re comparable levels of fuckwittery for someone aiming to be PM of the UK - and one of them will win.

Actually I think we could do something unilaterally. The government, on the basis that your analysis is broadly correct, could reprise a Manhattan type project to crack clean energy production. Then give it away. Of course we won’t, but we could. If nothing else it would give @HanoiVillan something to be proud of!

That’s the kind of self-loathing that gets me out of bed in the morning. Love it.