Nabby

17 minutes ago, villa89 said:

How much has his terrible play cost us? Also is Engels worthless because he hasn't scored? You can't justify his signing by saying he's scored a few goals. He's clearly not up to it at this level despite his effort. I've nothing against him but he was a bad signing and not worth the money. We'll do well to get £3m for him.  

Well Engles has cost us at least 4 goals due to bad play ..Engles worth is based on how many goals he has stopped as a CB.Trez is an attacker so goals and assists are how you are going to justify him. His last 3 goals have won us 2 games and given us 6 points ..you think his worth has gone down ....not a chance he is sold for something like £3mil 

17 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

as villa fans we tend to get carried away with ourselves, after good results and bad.

luiz and konsa, fair doos, are both looking good, but konsa wasn't a suso signing. smith managed him at brentford. does luiz perform better in an empty stadium? is he one of the training ground players smith referred to? that remains to be seen

1 brilliant performance from guilbert does not excuse the abysmal performances at leicester and southampton (just 2 off the top of my head).

trez scoring 3 valuable goals - and they really might be valuable - doesn't change how absolutely appalling a footballer he is. a hero, he is not.

wesley played 2 good games in the first half of the season but was terrible in the others, but i'm willing to give him another chance as the system has shown since then to be ineffective when it comes to strikers.

targett is a poor signing IMO. lightweight, poor delivery, and poor defender. i'm totally in the minority i accept that but i genuinely prefer taylor.

and it hardly takes a shrewd DoF to identify a player of Reina's caliber as a viable GK option...he hardly unearthed a young, unknown talent here.

so i want suso gone. i dont want him anywhere near a penny of the jack money. god knows what dross he'll spend it on

Trez has 6 goals and cost 8 mil thats not a bad return 

Konsa ,so now he is playing well a Smith Signing but Targett also from the UK market is a Suso signing ? Engles wanted by Brentford under Smith so who takes credit for his signing ?On Targett poor delivery ...really ? I''ll except his defending can be poor but delivery wise only the 2 full backs at Liverpool have created more chances.

Guilbert has been solid most of the season he has more good performance's then poor ones 

Luiz showed he had talent before the lockdown , he just needed more fitness. Who every was responsible for him did a good job signing him

19 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

That should've been Newcastle vs Liverpool surely.

Oh come on we need another 2 hour media wankfest about Liverpool winning the league with Jamie Carragher jizzing his pants over the commentary 

30 years of hurt you know ....

24 minutes ago, It's Your Round said:

FFS why the hell of BT got this game. I might be wrong here but I don’t remember there being one Villa game televised for free since the restart. Certainly not on the BBC or Prime. 

There has only been a few on for free 

I have BT Sports through EE so can stream on Xbox so I am not too bothered other than at times the stream quality goes down and its buffered so will be about 30 seconds plus behind the other games on Sky 

Should start next game , will help against the pace of Antonio who drifts out wide.

West Ham winning doesn't move them anyway they have literally nothing to play for , after weeks of pressure to stay up I can't see them maintaining the same levels they have been at. Their best result from the restart was the Chelsea win. Norwich was a walk over and Watford didn't show up in the first half. They did well enough last night sitting back and hitting United on the Counter and Antonio is in great form.

We need to go for the win , against Arsenal even 1 up we pressed high up the pitch and tried to score another .We need to get on the front foot early , we don't want to start slowly hear Watford are winning and chase the game.

My take is the Arsenal /City game set the stage for what followed. City losing meant Pep gave them a rocket and they came out much better against Watford , Arsenal on other hand put alot into the game to win and had a bit of a lull. Helped by Arteta taking inspiration from Paul Lambert and stick all his forwards on and no midfield which upset their balance completely ..I can't see him allowing them to perform like that again.

Watford in defence are pretty ropy as well and the CM is very average with Cleverly and Hughes in there.There one star player is Sarr who has done nothing since the restart after his 2 goals against Liverpool pre covid.

Bournemouth tough game at Everton who will want to end season on high so players stay in Ancelotti's plans also as we saw they haven't lost at home under Carlo and will want to maintain that.Had off game against Wolves but been better since 

For us we need to concentrate on ourselves but lets see how West Ham now safe perform tonight , I suspect some levels will drop off now they are safe. 

3 hours ago, OxfordVillan said:

Smith isn’t going anywhere, and rightly so. He’ll be manager next season, whatever league we end up in, and there’ll be one or two tweaks in the background. Hopefully Suso and Terry move on, and Dean Smith has more of an input in replacements and transfers. UTV

If he stays and Terry and Suso go and we are still not performing who do we lay the blame on then ?

They may well be part of the problem I just don't buy into them going makes us better.I'll say again why when the coaching is questioned its town to Terry not Smith (who is hands on) and Richard O'Kelly ? 

On signings Smith is on record as saying Mapauy for him was too expensive so we looked elsewhere.Suso's experience is from time in  Spanish football brings in Targett / Konsa and Drinkwater ? Engels was close to signing for Brentford was Suso scouting him then as well  https://tbrfootball.com/incoming-brentford-star-bjorn-engels-rejected-arsenal-2016/

The only player we brought in with link to Spanish football is Luiz who was on loan then and has turned out to be the best of the signings 

So then of the other signings who weren't on loan previously we have Nakamba ,Wesley,Guilbert ,Samatta ,Trez  and Heaton .Heaton we know Smith wanted and was a good signing.Wes struggled but had 5 goals and I think would have gotten at least to double figures if he stayed fit but we should have gotten another exp striker I think that much is clear and though more exp Samatta has clearly struggled with the step up in league.Nakama started off well but has gone backwards as the season as gone on.Trez though underwhelming is still our 2 nd highest scorer .For comparison he has 5 goals and cost about 9 mil .Pepe at Arsenal cost 72 mil and has 5 goals..

There is clear issues with coaching ( defending in general and at corners ) and with the signing Smith is as much to blame as anyone else for  this IMO.

In some ways this reminds me of when Lamberts back room staff were sacked and there was this idea they were the big issue and Lambert with them gone would improve ..he didn't  

24 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

Arsenal now have Europa league guaranteed, right? Losing FA Cup finalist takes the European place if the winner already qualifies? That leaves Arsenal with nothing to play vs us so we need to take advantage of that. 

Watford have done a crazy thing and sacked their manager with the hardest and most important two games of their season left. 

Bournemouth have a tough game at Everton left. They can win that so Villa get 6 points against our last two opponents and we're up for definite. I still think 4 points will be enough though as long as Man City and Arsenal beat Watford comfortably. 

Nope they changed it , if Chelsea / United  win the final the place goes to the next highest place league team so ro Qualify Arsenal need to win it or finish 7th

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Bournemouth could lose 6-0 with 20 % possession and 2 shots that hit the corner flag and it will be said they have shown more fight, organisation, attacking determination and a willingness to get on the ball that Smith lacked all season 

They took 6 points off us despite being shit all season thats the only stat that concerns me with them.

3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I don't think it's unfair at all, but if it matters lets say Del Piero, like it was pointed to on the last page. 

Del Perio stayed and they were promoted that season , Jack has done 3 years in the championship with us already.

Also Del Perio stayed with a club that he had won titles with and staying with them didn't effect him being picked for Italy

3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

What he is on at Palace would make him our highest paid player I believe. I think we would have had to go a lot higher than that to get him to uproot his family or commute at the same time as being a lot less stable a club than Palace. 

As far as I have read it wasn't the wages that were an issue it was that we would only offer a 1 year deal.I'm all for long term thinking but to me it seems we took our eye off the ball in terms of the short term strategy - staying in the PL 

Now we go down and face a rebuild and readjustment 

Simply put staying in PL and adding to Grealish ,McGinn is an easier  job than going down possibly selling those 2 and Mings and having to buy a whole new Spine to the side .Newcastle are often mentioned as a team that bounced back as if it was a relatively simply process.It started that they had Rafa who came in late as  they were relegated which gave him the summer to rebuild , and it was a big rebuild they sold all majority of their best players.Yes they won league and were easily promoted but they won by a point over a Brighton team who spent nothing and lost 10 games along the way.

30 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Speaks volumes that people except Wesley to be here. I agree however. I wish we could retain the others, but guess this is how football is. 

Mings and McGinn I've had some hope of retaining, but Grealish's silence on the club has kinda showed he's already out IMO, but we'll see. So much for being a Villa fan eh. Days of players like Le Tissier and Totti are over. 

If Grealish wants to play for England in the rescheduled euro's then, if we go down he has to leave as Southgate has said he won't pick players not playing at the  highest level. Comparison with  Le Tissier and Totti is unfair as to the best of my knowledge both those players clubs never played outside of the topflight. 

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Just on a rebuild and the potential for a turnover of players, for me - if we go down and come back up - then the only players I'd realistically see as being part of the squad that would start Premier League 2021-22 would be: 

• Heaton (at 36)
• Nyland
• Targett 
• Hause
• Engels
• Konsa
• Guilbert
• Wesley
• Nakamba
• El Ghazi
• Hourihane (at 31)
• Samatta
• Davis

The other 12-14 players we'd need to start Premier League season 2021-22 if we bounced straight back would need to join the club or come through our youth system in the next twelve months.

We're still a team that hasn't had a properly balanced squad in years = people who think we can add one or two and win the Championship are a ways off it in my opinion.

(I'm assuming we lose Grealish, Mings, Luiz and McGinn)

For comparison Fulham currently in the Play off's only had 4 players start today who played in PL

Newcastle's 2016/17 promotion team was built on 87mil worth of sales and 57mil of purchases. As you say people who think we will be playing in championship with virtually the same team are well off.It's going to be yet another rebuild which will inc players good enough to get us up but not good enough to play in PL 

I think whats happened is Luiz improvment and McGinn returning allows us to play Connor in a role that suits is skill set.For example we have played him as the holding player in Luiz role and he as been awful.

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It would have a couple of effects, particularly on our sales and our youngsters.

In so far as I understand it, they're talked of giving relegated teams an allowance for their first seasons, a little like the parachute money, but a higher wage entitlement for a period of years so that they can make the adjustment and so that every relegated team doesn't become a fire sale.

They've also suggested that they'll put a nominal value to any contract signed by a player while he was at the team in the Premier league at £500k per season - that means that all of the players we signed last season would be valued at £500k a year rather than their full wage. That will have a big impact on sales - do you sell Tyrone Mings for £30m when you can only spend a very limited wage amount on a replacement, or do you keep him knowing he's listed under a nominal value for as long as his current contract runs?

They've also said that players under 21 might not count at all - which suddenly makes them much more valuable - Villa armed with £80m of Grealish money but not far off their wage limit might not be able to buy Benrahma and pay him £60k a week - but we would be able to buy Sibley and Bogle and Mbeumo knowing that their wages would count as zero until they turn 21 - and we'd also have a big encouragement to integrate the likes of Barry and Chukwuemeka and Kesler and Philogene-Bidace - because having them in the squad would mean we might be able to pay another player a bigger wage.

There's a whole raft of complications and agreements still to be made and it doesn't look like the Championship are going to be ready to agree anything right now - I'd be reasonably confident it won't be in by the start of the season - but the Championship at board level is a madhouse, so never say never.

 

 

So its fairly complex then and reality of getting it up and running for a new season starting in 6 weeks or so seems impossible 

On loss's , due to covid there is talk of less money to spend for clubs so if I understand it correctly if someone wanted Mings but said Covid as wiped us out we can only afford 15mil .That would mean a loss on him and effect FFP so we would be better off not selling him .Jack on other hand as  homegrown player even taking 5mil would be profit as there was no outlay to stat with.

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is a knee-jerk reaction to having our fingers burnt too many times.

I can understand it, but its geared to protect us against poor signings, in short, we have lost confidence in ourselves.

I still see a policy geared to recovering funds on player misses.....we seem to build a policy for damage limitation.............not giving a manager players to build a rounded squad, with a correct mix.

You make the decision not to get exp in summer then in Winter you go and get Reina and Drinkwater in for their exp !!   

On Cahill , we brought in 4 cbs all of them little to no exp in PL.How does no one in this descion making look at the options and thinks well if we get 3 young guys and 1 exp in Cahill thats the best option.3 young guys to learn off a player who in an ex International player with numerous titles to his name.

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

see, I don't understand this.

stability only kicks in with gradual progression......we have been on some poor runs and its arguable if any of our players have got actually better as the season has progressed.....just one for me Luiz and maybe Reina has ditched his collywobbles.

I am not sure what stability, we think we have.....sure they all know where the toilets are, thats about it for me.

Perhaps a gut reaction to recent matches but if you look at Arsenal under Arteta there is a clear improvement and certainly they are more resilient with their defending.I really don't see any improvement with us like this under Smith. 

8 hours ago, DCJonah said:

We're not getting any money for him are we? 

Probably not alot , in our favour Birmingham are getting a big wad of cash for Jude Bellingham so they may have some spare.Overall with no fans I suspect the whole EFL is going to be spending very little on transfers

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

it wouldn't surprise me.....they all want to sustain the status quo for the elite.....no gate crashers please.

The quicksand of the championship wants to keep you down.

It's jealousy as they belive clubs going down have an unfair advantage ...tell that to the likes of Stoke , Birmingham , Boro etc all recent PL clubs all struggling.It's short sighted as well as they themselves could be promoted , then relegated and find themselves having to massively cut wages.Also how would it even work if you have players contracted and you can't sell them what are you supposed to do to get within the wage budget.

45 minutes ago, TRO said:

a quick tot up.....those players mentioned accrue to c £77 million......Imo only Hause was value for money.....the rest over priced.

why were they signed if they wasn't good enough to stay up.....where is the nous in the club.

I saw we paid little in agent fee's compared to others which on face of it looks a positive but  perhaps if we had paid agents more we may have sourced better players at better prices ..case in point Wolves recruitment 

Other is is one of having known rich owners , whilst we spent alot we also turned down numerous deals as they wanted too much ..ie Maupay. Mings took a large amount of budget as Bournouth knew we wanted him for continuity and set a high price we ended up paying.

The purchasing of players is a 10-15 year issue at this point.I'm sure other clubs have made mistakes but we seem top of the pile in poor purchasing.The current concept of young players only needs to be torn up completely.The idea that a player over 29 or so is waste of money as he has no re-sale is ludicrous.You can't base every signing on how much the player can be sold for.Case in point Luiz at Arsenal 33 years old and given a new deal was an absolute rock   against City.Sometimes you need exp and you need a mix.

Story goes we could of had Cahill if we had gone for a 2 year deal .Yes he is old and yes costly on wages but 100% with him in team we concede less goals and his exp makes Mings a better CB.

Current championship clubs meeting to discuss a 18mil a year wage cap to be implemented from next season 

That will certainly stuff us if we go down..

Just now, VillaChris said:

Would rather get Gayle in instead, younger and shown he can be o.k squad player at Newcastle in premier league.

Would agree on that , another who is solid at Championship level.

12 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Nah, too old even for me and barely scored in the prem when he played there for Norwich so that would be a signing without any sort of long term outlook.

Would be fairly cheap and would score goals to get us promoted , you supplement him with a younger long term striker.

I'm glad we extended his deal  really helped in these last few games having some exp in the team/subs bench/squad / sat at home