Nabby

24 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

Arsenal now have Europa league guaranteed, right? Losing FA Cup finalist takes the European place if the winner already qualifies? That leaves Arsenal with nothing to play vs us so we need to take advantage of that. 

Watford have done a crazy thing and sacked their manager with the hardest and most important two games of their season left. 

Bournemouth have a tough game at Everton left. They can win that so Villa get 6 points against our last two opponents and we're up for definite. I still think 4 points will be enough though as long as Man City and Arsenal beat Watford comfortably. 

Nope they changed it , if Chelsea / United  win the final the place goes to the next highest place league team so ro Qualify Arsenal need to win it or finish 7th

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Bournemouth could lose 6-0 with 20 % possession and 2 shots that hit the corner flag and it will be said they have shown more fight, organisation, attacking determination and a willingness to get on the ball that Smith lacked all season 

They took 6 points off us despite being shit all season thats the only stat that concerns me with them.

3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I don't think it's unfair at all, but if it matters lets say Del Piero, like it was pointed to on the last page. 

Del Perio stayed and they were promoted that season , Jack has done 3 years in the championship with us already.

Also Del Perio stayed with a club that he had won titles with and staying with them didn't effect him being picked for Italy

3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

What he is on at Palace would make him our highest paid player I believe. I think we would have had to go a lot higher than that to get him to uproot his family or commute at the same time as being a lot less stable a club than Palace. 

As far as I have read it wasn't the wages that were an issue it was that we would only offer a 1 year deal.I'm all for long term thinking but to me it seems we took our eye off the ball in terms of the short term strategy - staying in the PL 

Now we go down and face a rebuild and readjustment 

Simply put staying in PL and adding to Grealish ,McGinn is an easier  job than going down possibly selling those 2 and Mings and having to buy a whole new Spine to the side .Newcastle are often mentioned as a team that bounced back as if it was a relatively simply process.It started that they had Rafa who came in late as  they were relegated which gave him the summer to rebuild , and it was a big rebuild they sold all majority of their best players.Yes they won league and were easily promoted but they won by a point over a Brighton team who spent nothing and lost 10 games along the way.

30 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Speaks volumes that people except Wesley to be here. I agree however. I wish we could retain the others, but guess this is how football is. 

Mings and McGinn I've had some hope of retaining, but Grealish's silence on the club has kinda showed he's already out IMO, but we'll see. So much for being a Villa fan eh. Days of players like Le Tissier and Totti are over. 

If Grealish wants to play for England in the rescheduled euro's then, if we go down he has to leave as Southgate has said he won't pick players not playing at the  highest level. Comparison with  Le Tissier and Totti is unfair as to the best of my knowledge both those players clubs never played outside of the topflight. 

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Just on a rebuild and the potential for a turnover of players, for me - if we go down and come back up - then the only players I'd realistically see as being part of the squad that would start Premier League 2021-22 would be: 

• Heaton (at 36)
• Nyland
• Targett 
• Hause
• Engels
• Konsa
• Guilbert
• Wesley
• Nakamba
• El Ghazi
• Hourihane (at 31)
• Samatta
• Davis

The other 12-14 players we'd need to start Premier League season 2021-22 if we bounced straight back would need to join the club or come through our youth system in the next twelve months.

We're still a team that hasn't had a properly balanced squad in years = people who think we can add one or two and win the Championship are a ways off it in my opinion.

(I'm assuming we lose Grealish, Mings, Luiz and McGinn)

For comparison Fulham currently in the Play off's only had 4 players start today who played in PL

Newcastle's 2016/17 promotion team was built on 87mil worth of sales and 57mil of purchases. As you say people who think we will be playing in championship with virtually the same team are well off.It's going to be yet another rebuild which will inc players good enough to get us up but not good enough to play in PL 

I think whats happened is Luiz improvment and McGinn returning allows us to play Connor in a role that suits is skill set.For example we have played him as the holding player in Luiz role and he as been awful.

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It would have a couple of effects, particularly on our sales and our youngsters.

In so far as I understand it, they're talked of giving relegated teams an allowance for their first seasons, a little like the parachute money, but a higher wage entitlement for a period of years so that they can make the adjustment and so that every relegated team doesn't become a fire sale.

They've also suggested that they'll put a nominal value to any contract signed by a player while he was at the team in the Premier league at £500k per season - that means that all of the players we signed last season would be valued at £500k a year rather than their full wage. That will have a big impact on sales - do you sell Tyrone Mings for £30m when you can only spend a very limited wage amount on a replacement, or do you keep him knowing he's listed under a nominal value for as long as his current contract runs?

They've also said that players under 21 might not count at all - which suddenly makes them much more valuable - Villa armed with £80m of Grealish money but not far off their wage limit might not be able to buy Benrahma and pay him £60k a week - but we would be able to buy Sibley and Bogle and Mbeumo knowing that their wages would count as zero until they turn 21 - and we'd also have a big encouragement to integrate the likes of Barry and Chukwuemeka and Kesler and Philogene-Bidace - because having them in the squad would mean we might be able to pay another player a bigger wage.

There's a whole raft of complications and agreements still to be made and it doesn't look like the Championship are going to be ready to agree anything right now - I'd be reasonably confident it won't be in by the start of the season - but the Championship at board level is a madhouse, so never say never.

 

 

So its fairly complex then and reality of getting it up and running for a new season starting in 6 weeks or so seems impossible 

On loss's , due to covid there is talk of less money to spend for clubs so if I understand it correctly if someone wanted Mings but said Covid as wiped us out we can only afford 15mil .That would mean a loss on him and effect FFP so we would be better off not selling him .Jack on other hand as  homegrown player even taking 5mil would be profit as there was no outlay to stat with.

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

That is a knee-jerk reaction to having our fingers burnt too many times.

I can understand it, but its geared to protect us against poor signings, in short, we have lost confidence in ourselves.

I still see a policy geared to recovering funds on player misses.....we seem to build a policy for damage limitation.............not giving a manager players to build a rounded squad, with a correct mix.

You make the decision not to get exp in summer then in Winter you go and get Reina and Drinkwater in for their exp !!   

On Cahill , we brought in 4 cbs all of them little to no exp in PL.How does no one in this descion making look at the options and thinks well if we get 3 young guys and 1 exp in Cahill thats the best option.3 young guys to learn off a player who in an ex International player with numerous titles to his name.

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

see, I don't understand this.

stability only kicks in with gradual progression......we have been on some poor runs and its arguable if any of our players have got actually better as the season has progressed.....just one for me Luiz and maybe Reina has ditched his collywobbles.

I am not sure what stability, we think we have.....sure they all know where the toilets are, thats about it for me.

Perhaps a gut reaction to recent matches but if you look at Arsenal under Arteta there is a clear improvement and certainly they are more resilient with their defending.I really don't see any improvement with us like this under Smith. 

8 hours ago, DCJonah said:

We're not getting any money for him are we? 

Probably not alot , in our favour Birmingham are getting a big wad of cash for Jude Bellingham so they may have some spare.Overall with no fans I suspect the whole EFL is going to be spending very little on transfers

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

it wouldn't surprise me.....they all want to sustain the status quo for the elite.....no gate crashers please.

The quicksand of the championship wants to keep you down.

It's jealousy as they belive clubs going down have an unfair advantage ...tell that to the likes of Stoke , Birmingham , Boro etc all recent PL clubs all struggling.It's short sighted as well as they themselves could be promoted , then relegated and find themselves having to massively cut wages.Also how would it even work if you have players contracted and you can't sell them what are you supposed to do to get within the wage budget.

45 minutes ago, TRO said:

a quick tot up.....those players mentioned accrue to c £77 million......Imo only Hause was value for money.....the rest over priced.

why were they signed if they wasn't good enough to stay up.....where is the nous in the club.

I saw we paid little in agent fee's compared to others which on face of it looks a positive but  perhaps if we had paid agents more we may have sourced better players at better prices ..case in point Wolves recruitment 

Other is is one of having known rich owners , whilst we spent alot we also turned down numerous deals as they wanted too much ..ie Maupay. Mings took a large amount of budget as Bournouth knew we wanted him for continuity and set a high price we ended up paying.

The purchasing of players is a 10-15 year issue at this point.I'm sure other clubs have made mistakes but we seem top of the pile in poor purchasing.The current concept of young players only needs to be torn up completely.The idea that a player over 29 or so is waste of money as he has no re-sale is ludicrous.You can't base every signing on how much the player can be sold for.Case in point Luiz at Arsenal 33 years old and given a new deal was an absolute rock   against City.Sometimes you need exp and you need a mix.

Story goes we could of had Cahill if we had gone for a 2 year deal .Yes he is old and yes costly on wages but 100% with him in team we concede less goals and his exp makes Mings a better CB.

Current championship clubs meeting to discuss a 18mil a year wage cap to be implemented from next season 

That will certainly stuff us if we go down..

Just now, VillaChris said:

Would rather get Gayle in instead, younger and shown he can be o.k squad player at Newcastle in premier league.

Would agree on that , another who is solid at Championship level.

12 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Nah, too old even for me and barely scored in the prem when he played there for Norwich so that would be a signing without any sort of long term outlook.

Would be fairly cheap and would score goals to get us promoted , you supplement him with a younger long term striker.

I'm glad we extended his deal  really helped in these last few games having some exp in the team/subs bench/squad / sat at home 

At best he has missed 2 chances with headers that were hardly open goals. Not sure we have what could be described as a 20 goal a season striker in all 3 of the main guys but for the most part we create very little for them and they spend more time outside the box than in it.

Wes goal against Everton is I belive the only goal a striker has scored when we have put them through in on goal.

He looks a player to me lacking confidence and struggling in being used as a targett man to hold up the ball rather than being an off the shoulder striker.

30 minutes ago, ramshackler said:

Genuinely really looking forward to championship next year.

I've been disillusioned with the PL since long before our relegation. The top four push before being blown out the water by city and almost bankrupted just emphasised the pointlessness of it all. We'll never win it, even with sugar daddy owners, we will never be allowed to win it with FFP. Top level football really is set up to protect the status quo these days.

On top of all that, VAR has genuinely ruined football for me. I haven't celebrated a goal properly all year, waiting for some nonsense review before I can accept it. Totally ripped the emotion out of it.

While we would be angry at wrong decisions before that could always be accepted as human error, but to have obviously wrong decisions upheld after five minutes and ten camera angles just sends me into apoplectic rage.

I just want to watch my team play good entertaining football. Maybe win a title (playoff or championship feel just as good at the time) rather than a best case scenario of plodding along to a top six finish while sacrificing any cup runs time and again.

The fact we have that to look forward to in a league as relentless and competitive as the championship. Playing twice a week every week and without VAR is great. I'm looking forward to it

I said it before but it's just a shame being in EFL long term isn't financially sustainable and the prize for winning it is going back to the horror show that is the Premier League

Do you know think teams in the championship will look at us the same as the top 4 in PL .We are bigger, we can outspend them so is it a level playing field? I don't see the point of being excited to win the Championship if there is no interest in the prize - promotion to the PL.

The PL is tough and breaking the top 4 more so ( though Leicester are close to doing it again  and Wolves and Shef U have gotten close ) but as a club as big as us with 42,000 fans at home games I want to see us compete with the likes of Spurs , Everton etc rather than playing at Barnsley , Luton  clubs a third of a our size so we can be the Man city of the league and thrash them.Let's not forget in 3 years in the league we outspent everyone , we brought 3 strikers at a total cost of 50 mil from smaller teams.We were promoted after loaning a striker and paying 50k a week wages for him. I also don't recall us taking the cups too seriously , I'm sure we played weakened teams as we were concentrating on going up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again people base the championship on the last 2 months we were in it .For alot of it , it was just as shit as being in the PL we still lost  except it was against much smaller clubs it was shit.Drawing last night with Everton was crap but not as crap as drawing to QPR etc.

4 hours ago, chips'ngravy said:

Samatta and Trez were awful from start to finish. That seems to be a pretty unanimous opinion on here. Now, you can understand him going with a player that has just scored 2 goals in the previous game. Samatta, less so. Nevertheless, that's what he chose to go with. The annoying thing for me was not making the change in the first half. We have 5 subs. When something is so clearly wrong then change it, that's what a good manager does. The protocol has always been 'give them an hour no matter what'. Well, we couldn't afford that luxury. 

Likewise, having got our noses in front and being so close to the finish line, make a sub or two...break up the play...do whatever it takes but just see the game out. Across the course of the season this naivety has relegated us. We just haven't learnt.

I really don't know why Smith and team discuss on the sidelines regarding subs , they make the same ones at the same time every game.With the 5 subs their is more flexiabiltiy to make earlier changes ..we don't.I don't think we have made the first sub in any of the games since restart.

I agree about breaking up the play , as soon as Everton miss that first chance yesterday we should be making a sub.Slow the game down , have the player coming off stroll off the pitch etc.The game management is appalling ..Send Lansbury on tell him to just kick people in the middle of the park and give away free  kicks anything

Brentford are on the verge of Automatic promotion because they can now defend we can't it's not a coincidence .

Take him out of the team since the restart and no one would be saying our defence had improved.He singled handily has been the difference in us looking slightly better in defence.He is also really the only player who seems to have come back from the break any better.

Will struggle to keep him as I think City will buy him back for the agreed fee and either loan him out or sell him on for a profit.

30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The same che adams who absolutely smashed the championship under a woeful blose team and the samatta who looks absolute dog shit?

If scoring goals for blose is the main requirement we  can just keep Hogan.

Samatta dog shit , I would say he started off ok and got worse as season has gone on not helped by us using him as a targett man to hold the ball up which is clearly not his game.

41 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

Or, entered a new country and league just a few months ago. Was faced with a pandemic within 2 months which left him self isolating. Never had chance to settle. Needs some time before we totally write him off.

By the way he really does not look miserable. Far from it. He seems like a great character. Ridiculous thing to pull him up on. He is also a Champions League regular and thus a year in the Championship probably doesn’t worry him too much.

This he has come from a team top of league dominating games to a team struggling .Look how long it's taken Luiz to get up to speed.

Just now, Mjvilla said:

This. Smith will take a battering for the early season but is getting little to no praise for the improvement.

IMO the majority of the improvement is down to Luiz being MOTM in every game. The defending has improved as he is stopping attacks in midfield or is in the right place to get the ball away in the box.Take him out and we would still be all over the place.

I don't think overall the defending is much better , its more we sit deeper to stop counters now especially the full backs.Indvidual wise attacking we have been poor but I also think as a team with carry little threat  the Grealish /Targett combo on the left has not been effective , though I think this is down the fullbacks not venturing forward as much.

6 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Just pointing out those things. It happens all season. To different teams. The less quality you have, it happens more often. That's where we are at. 

See, I thought we've looked alot tighter at the back recent weeks. We're improving, players are improving (Konsa in particular), this is down to coaching no? Perhaps Terry's influence too, I'd hope.

We have looked a bit better at the back but its come at the cost of our attacking threat.Cross's we get into the box come from deeper positions , we don't get to the byline and get balls in very often as the fullbacks sit deeper now particularly Targett.

My issue is we are labouring , 10 mins to go and they have used 5 subs.We have 3 to make and he does nothing and yes I know he doesn't have a great degree of options but at that points it more about fresh legs to chase and win the ball than anything else.It's also about stopping the game..bring on 2 then wait a few mins bring on another break up the flow of the game.

This not a dig at Smith but we seem to be one of a only a few clubs who have zero talent at the 18-20 age group level.Everton tonight for example had Braithwaite and Gordon.Are they current crop so bad none of them are good enough to run around with some energy to win the ball back or chase balls down the line  ?