Nabby

1 minute ago, rodders0223 said:

Scratch that he got another assist tonight and Luton are back in it for survival

Yeah changing manager certainly given them a chance of staying up 

We will find out how good he is if we go down , if the spending was within budget to protect us being wiped out if relegated so be it ....I worry we will still end up having to sell loads and piece together a squad on the cheap with loans...time will tell

37 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Then we've turned down a sizeable fee for a player who won't want to be here and could down tools, like last night ( talks of rebuilds, projects won't sway him this time, he absolutely will not want to play championship football, factor in the euro's also ) So i say it again , Cantwell goes for 40 million  people think that's about right. Talk of Grealish for 40 million and people lose their nut. Both have one promotion each. Both about to be relegated. Comparable number of goals. Oh sorry, Jack most fouled player - that would drive it up to pogba type figures. My bad.

Well to start with it seems United have cooled on Grealish as they don't have the cash to spend 80 od mill especially when Pogba looks to be stating as again no one can afford to buy him.Plus I'm not sure how he would fit into their team now.17 games unbeaten with current team he isn't going to play in CM there and in a front three he struggles to get in as they score more goals than him.

My bet is City look for a deal with Sane gone or if Newcastle sale goes through they may come in for him.

Just now, TRO said:

This argument has algae & moss around it.....It is widely accepted in and around football that results and performances are down to the manager......when they win titles they take the accolades and when they get relegated they take the responsibility....and in most circles take the responsibility for what players they have.

The buck stops with them, they know that, when they sign up and their friends and peers in the industry accept that......its not what is fair or unfair, that is the accepted thing.

I do not want Dean to resprt to Flagellation or Penance, but for a relegated bound manager, he looks remarkable calm, his No 2 does too.....its almost like he don't quite get it.

I am not trying to be clever here, but after watching this team for as long as I have, I can tell you, foreboding has been with me most of the season....I could see this coming, its not about Man U or Liverpool or Chelsea or Spurs......its about the rest...sure I feed off hope in the main, but me Brain tells me, you are fooling yourself.

We have no leaders or characters that can hold things together in times like this, they are the types that can keep you in this league, albeit the lower section....almost everyone right through the club is learning, so there is no one to learn from....John Terry, is the only one who has done it consistently at the highest level and I am not sure what the situation is there he looks forlorn and cut adrift.

Make no mistake here, Mason Greenwood would not have scored last night if he played for us, the belief has gone and if their is a tad in us, the first goal in every game drains us...( However last nights decision was disgraceful, Fernandes should have walked, if anything)

I have no doubt in my mind, that if/when we go down.....The stigma that Dean has engendered in this seasons football will not drift away, it will be carried in players minds in to the championship and it will be difficult to get that belief in him back......i.e when a prize fighter gets a few batterings, that precious belief evaporates and the prospect of winning, far more distant.....furthermore the opponent gains the confidence to compound the issue.

No, In my mind he has to go.

Like winning games becomes a habit losing is the same.Its why when teams are relegated they don't just improve when they have dropped down a level.

The team is low on confidence except Luiz who is the only player to have improved. Nyland before the break was brilliant in the league cup games and came back a bag of nerves.Deam says confidence is not an issue , how he comes to that conclusion I have no idea its obvious from the body language and how poor we are at the attacking aspect of our game now. You can't swap players during the season but you can change manager and hope he can galvanize a squad even if its a short term bounce , Watford a perfect example.They have been as poor as us recently but the bounce they got from Pearson joining looks to be just about enough to stay up.

I know you need to take into account the break but its 6 months since the team experienced a win despite all the talk there is no way that doesn't effect players mentally.Whilst not as bad as 2016 the rot as set in and Dean has not been able to turn it around.His latest comments about dusting ourselves down are back to the Bruce ( roll up our sleeves ) Lambert ( We go again ) management speak of having no real answers for what is happening during the games.We don't even play good football now , we lump the ball forward as much as any team in the league if not more.Norwich as poor as they have at least carried on passing the ball well.

On your points about him being too calm , what I would say is he doesn't seem to be able to get a reaction from the players which is a bigger issue when no crowd to help with that.

Just all in all a sorry state of affairs , I still have hope and would love it if we could find something in the last 4 games but I just can't see it. 

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

VAR is not the reason we are getting relegated.

That is really papering over the cracks.

We are 19th because we are the 2nd worst team in the league and deserve to be there.

Does it help ,no ! But we have been awful for months in a season where many teams will struggle to get 40 points we are currently the 2nd worst.

41 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

We wont have any ffp worries not yet anyway. Firstly we have parachute payments and secondly ffp is suspended for a year.

Alot of these fat cat owners will still have stupid money it wont be as what you think. 40m for grealish that wont happen i think. That would be a derisory deal 

FFP is suspended by UEFA thats not the same as the EFL one 

1 hour ago, VillaCas said:

So in your scenario Smith gets no credit for players Brentford signed but carries the can for the poor Villa signings.....seems fair!

He carries the can for us being poorly coached 

I'm saying he had enough input on the signings for him to take responsibility and not have the blame put on Suso 

Players not good enough -Suso 

Players not coached well -Terry 

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

A perfect example scott parker. They kept him even with best squad he cant get in top two. I dont even think Smith would do what worker has.

Also of the 3 that went down at best 1 will go up and then only in the play offs ..people expecting an easy ride to come back up are not accepting the reality.Look where Stoke and Boro are currently as prime example

10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im glad your not edens or sawiris then as you would probably bankrupt our club! Why would we sell grealish less than 40m? Why would sell mings less than we paid for him?

Trez was 12m so we might get around 7-8m for him. He is still a Egyptian international and not very old either.

The prices your suggesting at selling at is madness.

Every club  globally has lost cash due to Covid  prices will be affected .If it comes to us being docked points under FFP or sell Jack for 40mil then he is being sold.

On flip side we may benefit when it comes to buying players as no one in the championship will have any cash with no fans.

13 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

I don't see how we can do so much activity in terms of changing manager , sporting director, players in and players out in a quick turnaround. Dates of August 29th and September 12th been put about for next season starts for the championship

Which is why those saying going down isn't a disaster is so frustrating , the teams going down are going to be in a total mess as they try and reconfigure the squads to go again within a few weeks with a limited preseason.It's also likely that transfer fee's will be lower so as we will need to balance the books we are going to be forced to sell under value...they only cavet is FFP being suspended to allow us to take loss's and hope the owners will take another hit to their pockets to fund us.

Chances are we will start the season with players we can't keep and not able to bring in what we want it will be just like the last time...Keep Smith for continuity ? That continuity is a team that keeps losing.If we go down and he stays for me 10 games max if we are struggling he has to go we simply can no afford to spend 3 years down again when currently next season will have no fans so revenue is already massively compromised  

It's not about last night really its about being piss poor against Bournmouth both times , piss poor against Watford away , piss poor against Soton twice

Smith himself said the season isn't defined by the games against big clubs ( which also I feel is a completely negative thing to say ) its the teams around us but we failed against teams around us which is why we are where we are.

1 minute ago, useless said:

Looking back over the last ten seasons before this one, of the thirty teams that have been relegated, West Ham United, Queens Park Rangers, Norwich, Burnley, Newcastle twice, and West Brom, are the only teams to have come straight back up.

Our situation is tricky, I don't think we can just keep things mostly as they are and expect to suddenly start winning games in the championship, the rot has already set in, this idea of keeping the same side minus Grealish and maybe one or two others won't work, but at the same time if you make too many changes that can have a detrimental affect either. I  think the best bet would be to bring in five or six players and bring in a new coach with fresh ideas.

But then again if the likes of Mings, Luiz, McGinn, El Ghazi and some of the others decide that they don't want to play in the championship we wil probably need to sign more than five or six. One adavantage of being in the championship is that it will be a lot easier to build a team down there and develop a style of play in that division.

As Rafa would say ..facts !

The concept its easy to come back up is completely bewildering it really is.Last time we went down we spent Millions brought in 3 strikers who has scored shedloads , had Terry and Jedinek both exp PL on huge wages and Bruce a manager who had gotten promoted numerous times and we still failed.When we did come up its becuase we had 1)Jack 2)Could afford to pay 50k a week to loan Tammy from Chelsea.

As you say the Rot as set in , the same as last time just because we will go to a lower level league you can't suddenly install confidence and gel a team when you are going to have to rebuild.Again it will be much like last time , we will have players like Jack who want to go or teams want to buy but will drag it out meaning we ourselves can't buy anyone. 

People are also hanging on to UEFA suspending FFP , thats not the EFL version they have said nothing yet so we could well find ourselves in trouble - and we can't flog the stadium again to get round it 

He reminds me of Micah Richards  has all the physical attributes and will make tackles and blocks due to his strength and speed , but dear god his positioning is suspect and has made so many errors.

Last night he made 3 leading to the goal 

1)He lost the ball 

2)After losing the ball he has to stop the attack even if it means taking a yellow card , he doesn't 

3)Finally he drops too deep and lets Greenwood shoot which is madness , it was only at the weekend Greenwood showed how good his shooting is.

Why is it that people state Terry is an issue but no one ever seems to question Richard O'Kelly ?

The players are not good enough Suso's fault ..despite Smith on record saying he went to watch Trez , that Maupay was  too expensive and it was him who wanted Drinkwater ?

I'm not saying Suso in particular is blameless but seems to be alot of passing the buck to defend Smith.In Terrys case I can't remember too many times over the years of poor managers where the assistant or coaches where the issue .I don't recall people saying if we got rid of Clemance Bruce would be doing better for example.

On purchasing Smith didn't do the buying at Brentford so there is not evidence to suggest left to him soley it would be better.Currently our best player is Luiz so who takes credit for that transfer ? 

My point is I don't subscribe the theory that we would be massively better with Terry and Suso not here ...I doubt it 

5 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Guilbert was signed last January transfer window before promotion. We cant have 3 right backs in a 25 man squad. 

Whelan is playing League 1 after being kicked out of a relegated Scottish league team. Nakamba is 100 times more useful than Whelan or Jedi combined

I just don't get this idea likes of Whelan would have improved us , as you point out look at where Whelan is playing now. He was done in the PL the same as Jedinek and Hutton.Are some of the signings we made not good enough , yes but that doesn't  mean the ones let go where any better.

6 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Hutton and Jedinak couldn't find clubs because of their age.

And Jedinak lack of mobility? Come on he's never been quick. He's got over 100 PL games under his belt with Crystal Palace.

My main point is if we had kept most of the squad together we could focus our money on the main targets like Maupay and Benrahma instead of rushing and panicking buying 12 very average players who ultimately haven't improved us.

I think people are underestimating the value keeping the dressing room together. It's so, so important. You can't do that many changes at once. We were never gonna keep Axel and Tammy but rest we should have kept for another season.

So they couldnt get clubs because of their age but we should of kept them on ...how does that work ?

He got 100 games under his belt with Palace 3 /4 years ago - his legs where gone .Hutton its simple we had 3 rbs one had to go and he was out of contract.

56 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

So you would rather spend 140 million on 13 average players than keeping most of the squad and focusing on 4-5 main transfer targets who much better players and would have actually improved us?

Jedinak is a great DMF and shielder of the defense. He has never been quick if that is your argument and has played many games in the PL. We all yell out for a lack of experience yet got rid of Jedi.

He also is fantastic in both boxes. Considering we're the worst team in the league on defensive set pieces he would have been a great asset.

Adomah is a better player than Trezeguet. He works very hard for the team. Is a good team player and has an eye for a goal.

I also think people underestimate how important the likes of Hutton and Jedinak were for the dressing room.

.........................Heaton..................................

Guilbert/Elmo Konsa...Mings...Targett

..........................Jedinak.........................

.............McGinn...Grealish/Luiz.......................

Adomah.............Maupay....................El Ghazi

This would have been a much, much better team than what we assembled. I don't care what anyone says.

Well you might not care but here are facts Hutton and Jedinek have no clubs as no one wanted them at any level high enough for them to continue playing and Adomah was on the waine and didn't last long at Forrest.Jedinek in the air would have been useful but his passing and lack of mobility would of been exposed in the PL.

Admoah has had 2 good seasons where he got into double figures in goals in his last 69 games he has 7 goals.Trez has 4 in 21 games at a high level.You might not rate Trez but Adomah is not a PL player ,never has been and at 32 is not going to improve to become one.

56 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Sorry I wasn't clear, I'd rather be Norwich as a club in current culture and squad. They didn't spoof a shedload of money and they actually play with some kind of plan and spirit, albeit one that wasn't good enough but still better imo than what we do, because I have no idea what we do. We look scared to do anything, which results in the inevitable. 

Bruce got slated for his timid approach, and rightly so, well what I see isnt much better than that.

I don't hate Smith, I'm not sure I even want him to lose his job but he has without a doubt betrayed his own philosophies and in any business and job any walk of life..... If you don't believe in yourself how do you expect others to believe in you.

If Smith goes I won't be jumping for joy, I will actually be quite sad. However I'll probably think it's the right decision in the best interests of Aston Villa.

My earlier message was a poor attempt at a bit of humour. I was looking forward to the posts, not revelling in our current situation as dire as it is.

 

We could complain about our spending but we tried to build a team to stay in the league ,Norwich so scared of going back down did nothing and apart from the City win have played some pretty football but been useless all season- they have been making up the numbers.At least we gave it a go 

If we go down it will be because of our poor defending earlier in the season but we have been somewhat unlucky with the games we had left to play we have had all but City from the top 6 and the easiest game we had on paper was Newcastle who decided to hit some form.Hard to see us taking anything from United , only hope there is DeGea drops another clanger after that Everton ,Palace and West Ham should be beatable but Arsenal also look decent again.

Tuanzebe , didn't United refuse to sell him only offer another loan and he has spent most of season injured again which was his issue with us also.

I saw only Wan-Bissaka and Pereira have made more tackles than him at FB and those 2 cost a combined 100 mil

He has done ok for first season and yes his pace is greatly missed.

1 hour ago, hippo said:

I think Lambert kept us up with a lesser squad.

 

I think the difference with Lamberts squad is we had Benteke and even Gabby who could get goals.As bad as our defence has been with a 10-15 goal striker we would be doing better , if Wes had stayed fit we might have had that.

8 minutes ago, TreeVillan said:

Anyone thinking were getting promoted back into the Prem without Jack are kidding themselves. 

Norwich might have thought the same when they sold Maddison ...

It's a team game Jack on his own is not enough as we are seeing now for me in the summer we should of gone for some kind of star/named player to back Jack up.At least a player who knew the league , we didn't and are now paying the price

We tried to run before we could walk , we brought long term strategy players - young with potential and ignored the short term.That Long term will count for nothing if we go down as 4/5 players inc Jack will be sold or want out and we start the process of rebuilding the squad again.

40 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Purslow did the media rounds and interviews making quite clear publicly the club did not expect to be in a relegation battle , Videos that are very easily found on YouTube , anyone who suggests the aim Of the owners  was 17th is wrong - i personally thought 14th more likely but clearly purslow seemed to think we had bought very well , maybe he put too much trust in suso and smith. 
 

I can see now why he would stick with smith for these 6 games as it’s highly unlikely anyone would take the job so late on facing the fixtures we do .

smith will hopefully be turfed out in the summer and purslow will need to recruit someone who can not only get tha club up but also stay up , I would not want dean smith anywhere near a premier League  club , we must must learn our lessons and put this season behind us . 
 

Yes I think Smith stays now as the options are limited especially with the way the games are spaced out now.

Percy had him down to go if we lost to Chelsea in the original scheduling , that would of given us a 2 week break to bring someone in and then the games spaced out enough for changes to take effect

I don't see him as being fully backed now its just a case of nothing we can do

On Purslow his comments from preseason show a man deluded on the reality of situation or someone who is good at PR BS , neither is great in all honesty. Things behind scenes may be improving ie the youth set up but if I am the owners I am asking him questions about what went wrong and his part in it.

2 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

He had a great chance at 0-0 against Wolves to score, as it fell on his left foot I was sure it would end up in the back of the net!

Hourihane was unlucky as it was blocked well by their player.

Problem was it that adjust to try and curl it in which allowed time to block 

He was on wrong side of pitch against Newcastle on the left he was more dangerous on the right he had to cut back inside then would be sending in a ball curling towards the keeper.

To get the best from him you really need him in the position Grealish plays.Grealish in that role will  run with ball and create chances by drawing players in , Hourihane you want there to be on edge of area to shoot or in a position to cross.

A role for him where he is chasing players or generally not close to the opponents area is a waste of time.

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Doesn't Burnley play that way?

They do yes simple 4-4-2