PB

Flawed poll If selling him meant bringing in a top striker then of course yes, sell him If selling him meant going with three strikers next season then of course no. So the answer is 'it depends'

For me Baros does what Vassell does only better. Neither are prolific goalscorers, and thats not really their role in the side - their role is to pull defences open with intelligent running, making space for others. Baros is a far more accomplished player than Darius technically, is a better finisher, and a more intelligent runner. No brainer in my opinion. Certainly better than DV, miles better than Bellamy, different class to either.

Is value for money the most important consideration? Is Beattie a better player than Phillips, now there's a proper question - unless we are the Walmart shoppers of the premiership of course - oh right

I think he will be JPA's main partner next season, as i wrote here the other week. No problems with him at all, very good player

Other. Wont be Ellis and the gang, cant see it being Ranson either

I am certain he will take £60m I have a feeling he may take £45m I have a suspiscion that he is currently very, very unwell

Shhhhh... I can hear people munching on hats if I listen very carefully, can anyone else....? Since Doug's illness we have signed: 1 x reserve striker onto a renewed contract well within our wage cap 1 x reserve goalkeeper on a free transfer well within our wage cap Had 'meetings with agents' Exciting summer of transfer activity eh? What was that about signing players that would create a 'Collymore affect'? What was that about getting players in before the start of pre-season as the manager expressly requested? Pre-season training starts in less than a fortnight, and I note with interest that our money remains firmly wherever it was in the first place, in the imaginations of those who chose to believe this nonsense in the first place.

A bold statement and no mistake ! Not really, have you seen who keeps goal for England? If Enckleman was English i reckon he'd get the nod

I think he might very quickly become the number one. Real pressure on Tommy now. Future England keeper for sure Last keeper we bought from Arsenal turned out OK

I dont think that either player is a goalscorer, so I'm not sure that gols scored is a fair measure. In terms of what they do as a support striker, making runs behind the defence and pulling defenders away from their strike partner, I think bellamy is better at it, by quite some way.

I think that Glazer will be good for whoever he runs, but bad for the rest of football. Ellis is bad for us, and by implication good for our competitors No choice, voted Glazer

*bump* No contenders to Nobby then?

Bump for this. Surprised to see Nobby so far ahead really. I thought it would be closer. Poll runs until after the last game by the way.

Its quite simple really Jim. Villa agreed a deal with Real Betis when GT was amanger to allow JPA to join Real betis in exchange for Joey Gudjonsson. Angel had to all intents and purposes agreed terms. The deal was practically done. I think JPA still had to pass a medical, which was waiting for his operation to be done with. Why do you have such difficulty with understanding that Villa were writing off losses at the time? Alpay cost nearly £6m but we paid him to leave. Balaban cost more than £6m but we paid him to leave, hadji cost £4.5m but we paid him to leave. That's £16m worth of players that we actually paid money to to get them to leave the club. Why do you think we wouldn't have done the same with JPA had DOL not turned him around? Even though the deal with Betis collapsed in the end, don't you think they would have been back in again, seeing how we were letting these others go? Don't you think that we would have accepted, to get the £18,000 per week off the budget? If not, how do you explain our actions re Alpay, Balaban and Hadji?

Very interesting, Gareth. And your source is..? At the time thsi was going down, pretty much at the time taylor resigned, there was alot of hysteria on here about JPA being swapped for Joey. Joey at tha time was valued at around £3m IIRC. Anyway, everyone was scanning whatever information they could find, and whilst the deal was largely ignored here in England, beyond the usual 'Villa flop to go to Spain' crap (sound familiar - JPA scored 23 goals the following season) Anyway, i can clearly remember having a chat with Ryu about this, We were concerend because at first the article implied that Villa had agreed to let JPA go to Betis for free, as O'Leary didnt want Joey in PX. The article discussed JPA's terms at Betis, ie what he would cost in wages. In fact it wasnt saying that he would be free, it was saying that the only 'cost' would be his wages. I dont remember if O'Leary flew out to South America, but I know that he met him, as one of his first acts as manager, and reminded him of why he had joined the club in the first place, and that he would the centre point of the team. This part DOl has said himself, that *he*, DOl, persuaded JPA not to go to Betis but to stay and fight for Villa. The point is, that Angel agreed. Yes he was leaving, and after the way he was treated over the previous 12 months you cant blame him. But he not only stayed, but scored 23 goals, and was the fans player of the year. Now everyone's on his back again, which is no suprise, as its the third such period in his Villa career. there is something about him which attracts wild criticism when he's not playing well, criticism well above what is deserved. No doubt he'll be everyone's favourite again soon enough, and no doubt there will be other times when people get on his back again.

Doug 'I wish I hadnt signed him' Ellis? You see its odd, because the Spanish press were reporting it as a done deal, even after Taylor resigned. Not in the speculative kind of way you sometimes get, but as a matter of fact, with details of wages Betis would have to pay and so on. O'Leary then had, as his number one priority apparently, to track JPA down and sit him down and persuade him to stay, which thankfully he did. This is at the same time as we were desperate to get players off the pay roll you will recall. balaban, Alpay etc. Ellis eventually accepted all if these losses and would have done so on JPA too, and is practically on record as saying as much.

You mean Graham taylor would have preffered Angel to Joey? I find that difficult to believe.

I don't think he's had much of an opportunity to display his loyalty. If a Valencia or Real Betis had come in for him under GT, I think there's a good chance he would have left. So why didn't he? When betis offered Gudjonsson in exchange, why did he stay here?

So, this is a player who is the double fans player of the year? A one season wonder? Well, he's had an abysmal season, one in which it is hard to find excuses for him, beyond him not getting a pre-season (having an operation instead), him being constantly played, even when injured and/or clearly low on confidence, and most importantly of all the injury to Darius. I wonder how both he and Carlton Cole would have done this season had there been the option to rest them when needed. Carlton Cole said pre-season that he thought he'd do really well to play 20 matches and didn't think he'd get anywhere near that total.. He's ended up playing 29 so far, being picked when clearly in need of a rest. The same is true of JPA. Options is the thing, and with Luke Moore just not making the grade at the moment, there aren't any. One thing I have noticed, especially at home, is how tightly Angel gets marked. Unless, that is, he is being partnered by Darius. I've been a critic of Darius in the past, but I have to say that he off the ball runs he makes creates acres of space for the other players ot run into. I wonder, fi darius had stayed fit, how this season would have worked out. I think rather differently. And people then wonder why a striker is top of DOl's shopping list?

So, this is the poll for the player of the season. Qualification: Must have played some part in at least 20 League and Cup matches.

And the winner is Steve Davis Well done young man

I just thought that it was interesting. The rebranding at the time was very necessary, and it was part of a whole raft of things dreamt up by quite possibly, at that time, the most imaginative marketing department in football, the same group of people who brought Pele and Santos to Villa Park. I think that the energy and vision brought to the club at that time was amazing, and the badge was very much a part of that. It's interesting to see a Doug Ellis invention being so popular, don't you think? Personally I think that the current badge is a much better embodiment of what Aston Villa is, but I can understand the nostalgia connected to the badge worn during our greatest hour.

Right then, one last post on this, as you clearly having some difficulty understanding this rather simple concept. Small words so you can understand OK? I am not blaming Doug Ellis for the badge. I am in fact praising his early efforts at the club. Now then, how do you translate that into an anti-Ellis rant?

So, with all due respect, WTF do you think you're on about? You see, if you were being less argumentative and paranoid, then you might perhaps percieve that the round badge was part of the rebirth of the club in the late 60s early 70s. part of the whole rebranding thing that Doug Ellis was very much at the heart of. So, what I would like to suggest, as you're not going to retract your comment, is for you to shove it where the sun doesnt shine. OK?

Oh please please don't turn this thread into another tedious anti Ellis rant. Give us a break! Perhaps you would care to either a) Retract that frankly paranoid statement or Explain to me how me pointing out that the badge was introduced by Doug Ellis constitutes a rant. Or do you just like starting arguments for the sake of it?