Santa_Rosa

It is interesting Pelle. Maybe there was a Tsunami in those parts like the one Asia suffered recently. As other posters have said, maybe these stories are based on historical events that did indeed happen in some form or another. Doesn't mean God caused them to happen though. And isn't it the case that the flood stories are all about God's wrath against people who weren't behaving as he wants? Given that organised religion is a way of controlling the masses and getting them to behave in a certain way such stories are a useful threat. So it's interesting, but not surprising. That's my take on it anyhow.

Indeed. I am absolutely amazed that anyone holds this belief. We all descended from two people? Until the flood when it started again? Amazing. Whenever I hear stuff like this I'm reminded of that Billy Connolly riff where he says something along the lines of "These people need help. They think there are invisible folk, flying about telling God when you're w@nking. 'Oh him, he's always w@nking. Have I no' got enough to deal with wi'Bosnia?'" The more I read this thread (which is great stuff by the way) and the links from it, the more I am falling into the 'No' camp.

I'm 33, I've thought about it a lot over the years and I can't seem to come to any conclusion. That probably says more about me than anything though - whenever I read a debate about it on here I feel like that Paul Whitehouse character from the Fast Show who beleives whoever spoke last :? :notsure: I definitely give a shit though :nod:

Like I say, Shane's acheivements are not as great as Wilkinsons. The 2003 England side was a great one. Better than the Wales 2008 (and I say 2008 cos I'm not yet sure the 2009 vintage is as good) one? Dunno, but I'd like to see them play each other. Is Gatland's Wales side capable of winning a World Cup? Possibly. I wouldn't bet against it. But ability is ability. Shane has more than Wilkinson. Which was my point. EDIT: Oh, and Lions tours are big stages. The World Cups of their day. And many in my list more than performed on them.

Nope 2 World cup finals a winners medal, World player of the year for a few years... your right Shane couldn`t lace Wilkinsons boots Oh very good, I see what you've done there. Yeah, Wilko was very good for a bit. But if you want to talk outside halves of yesteryear, then you might end up on the losing side of an arument with a Wales supporter. Cliff Morgan, Phil Bennett, Barry John, Gareth Davies, Jiffy, Jenkins were all good back in the day too but, like Jonny, they're a bit passed it now. So we don't miss them and wouldn't want them in the side. Gareth Edwards on the other hand could probably still do a job on England. The mere fact that an England fan is bemoaning the lack of Wilkinson as a reason for defeat and equating his absence to that of Williams (the current World Player of the Year) speaks volumes. As for Silverware, Shane's got two grand slam medals to his name and not many are betting against him getting a third. Not a World Cup, but not bad going. Ian Balshaw has got a W/C winners medal. Do England want him back too? And for what its worth, if you offered me Wilkinson in his prime, or Shane Williams, the little wizard would be chosen every time. Jonny was a very good player. Shane's a genius.

Oops, sorry mark, shown up my lack of knowledge about the Irish hooker/second row there. :oops: I'll concede that Matthew Rees is a bit of a weak link. Isn't mobility an issue with Hayes? Adam Jones certainly put himself about a bit on Saturday. AWJ's handling and general footballing skills would give him the nod for me. Who's the other Irish second row? Ireland have surprised me to be honest. I thought they were a spent force, but they're proving me wrong and I now have to agree with your assessment about the 3 games out of 5.

You wouldn't pick Martyn Williams, arguably the finest open-side of his generation?? Leaving out Ryan Jones? I'd have Alun Wyn Jones over Flannery all day long too. Be interesting to see how the Lions squad shapes up.

A good summing up for me snowy, I agree - Both on how the day unfolded and the Byrne point. While I don't think Wales could have stepped it up as such the last few minutes felt fairly comfortable. I think a few more pairs of fresh legs might have made it even easier, relatively speaking, on us though and am not sure why Gatland didn't take this option.

Not sure about that Mark. Which Irish forwards would you select ahead of Welsh ones? Not trying to be biased, but comparing the two teams in almost every position I'd rather have a Welshman. O Connel instead of Gough maybe.

Forgot to mention the impressive try from Armitage by the way. If he can improve his kicking out of hand, England might have quite a player on their hands there. Not much in the way of substitutions late on form our boys Chris. I can see the argument for leaving Stephen Jones on as he was controlling things pretty well, but I would have thought a few more fresh legs were in order. Any ideas as to why WG didn't ring many changes? Also, while Phillips was solid enough, do you think there's a case for calling Peel up against the Frogs?

I never thought it was going to be a stuffing. I had Wales by 10-15 points. England were much better than I thought they would be. Worsley was immense, Ellis impressive and greater discipline would have made it closer, but still not close enough to win. I think England will do France. Which ones? The Observer or Sunday Times certainly didn't. Nor the BBC website. Watch it again. They really didn't. He wasn't great, but the only glaring error was not binning Byrne. He didn't fly into the challenge in the same way as the Scottish prop did last week but I still think he deserved to go. But if you think he cost England the game, then you don't know very much about Rugby. How about England's outside half commiting a nailed on, cynical, sin binnable offence, and then not being around to bag a relatively easy 3 points a few minutes later? Or Vickery's inexplicable refusal to bind properly. Andy "Bench Press" Sheridan doing nowt with or without the ball? Or the constant and, Sackey's try excepted, generally poor kicking out of hand. Not fit to lace Shane's boots. What makes you think that? I think Wales vs France will be the loosest, most open game. Scotland vs England is going to be massive too.

Depends what kind of lifestyle you have I guess. Of course. I should point out that I'm not talking about me here. I do get exposure to pop culture. A lot of it is great. Some of it is throwaway tosh though. It's like that judge who said he had never heard of Gazza after the media was full of him post Italia 90. I remember being astonished at the time.

I wouldn't count on it. I know loads of people who have no interaction with popular culture at all. It's not hard to do.

Don't you realise how this sounds? This is music we are talking about. Nobody's asking, is it successful? Only, is it good? And if you think the answer to that it yes, then you should turn off MTV and get yourself to some gigs and festivals. If you don't like guitar music, try The Big Chill. You're right. Just ask Dr John, Miles Davies, Ray Charles, Jools Holland, Chuck D, Air, Royksopp, Roots Manuva, Ben Folds, The Beastie Boys, Daft Punk, Camille, MGMT (Not sure if they play guitar actually, it doesn't sound like it) and any number of other people. Just don't ask Rihanna or anyone else without talent. And I'm not 50, not entirely English and it's not about hating modern music, just shit music. What you just said there is really dumb. I'm a fan of music, I play the guitar, clarinet and accordion (although the later two not so much anymore). Favorite bands are Radiohead, Led Zeppelin, Mando Dio, Smashing Pumpkins and MGMT, list goes on but those are prob my top 5. I don't go out of my way to stay away from "mainstream". Ive always been under the impression that I know good music when I hear it. I love guitar riffs, I love great vocals, I love great lyrics, I love experimentation. But a song that I'm willing to listen to and enjoy, does not need to have any of those, all it requires is me to be able to sit down and enjoy it. I can turn on that song and like it. Just like I can watch Jaws and be scared by the 2 notes. /rant Edit: Ive never had, nor listened to MTV. The only place I hear songs like that is when people I'm around play them. All that means is that you can enjoy music without great guitar riffs, great vocals, great lyrics, great experimentation. Sounds like music with nothing going for it to me. I can't enjoy that type of music. And you call me dumb! Furthermore, you are saying that Rihanna's songs hasn't got any of those things; that there is nothing great about it. On this we agree. Jaws is a great film and I don't understand what you're getting at by comparing an atmospheric soundtrack to one of the scariest movies ever to a pop song. Also, if you enjoy this type of music, why not watch MTV?

Jackson? Sorry. I meant Ringo. By the way, I like red-headed women. Not sure what this Nicola bird looks like mind so I can't comment.

Tito

You're in a bad mood. Do you: A) Sit there and stew. Come on an internet message board and get arsey with people. C) None of the above, they are shit options and I don't care.

Don't you realise how this sounds? This is music we are talking about. Nobody's asking, is it successful? Only, is it good? And if you think the answer to that it yes, then you should turn off MTV and get yourself to some gigs and festivals. If you don't like guitar music, try The Big Chill. You're right. Just ask Dr John, Miles Davies, Ray Charles, Jools Holland, Chuck D, Air, Royksopp, Roots Manuva, Ben Folds, The Beastie Boys, Daft Punk, Camille, MGMT (Not sure if they play guitar actually, it doesn't sound like it) and any number of other people. Just don't ask Rihanna or anyone else without talent. And I'm not 50, not entirely English and it's not about hating modern music, just shit music.

That's the thing with hypothetical situations though. They're erm, hypothetical.

A, no contest. Might as well ask whether I would like: A) A spot of rumpo with that lass off Hustle, or: My scrotum stapled to a burning table. In reality we'll probably draw with Chelsea, go through in the UEFA and go out against Everton. I'll probably have some rumpo with Mrs Rosa, and my genitals will remain unsinged. I'lll take that.

James Milner can read the entirity of this thread without losing the will to live. Not sure whether Chuck Norris could, but then he's probably heard them all before.

Mass market pop tosh. I love it. EDIT: I don't really. Real RnB is Ray Charles, Otis Redding et al, not this sub-hip hop arse. The only thing worse is that Akon. I am genuinely astonished that anyone has ever bought any of these records

Aye, that 7 is a big lad isn't he? Looks like he's eaten Andy Goode. Armatage Tanks? Apologies if that's been done already. Can't beleive a tabloid worth it's salt would miss that.

Here we go.... And you're right about that annoying woman. Dunno about Phil Bennet's words, all the motivation I'd need is the prospect of keeping her bloody quiet

Yes, we were comfortable, you're right, but there were worrying signs of a lack of discipline in the closing stages. Whether this was down to the Williams sin bin (harsh I thought), the flood of replacements or a bit of mental tiredness from those remaining I'm not sure. Definite area to improve on though, as was the lineout I reckon. There's no arguing with your logic Chris and, while I'm an optimist when it comes to the Villa, it's always the other way with Wales, particularly where England are concerned. Growing up in England in the 80s and 90s can have that effect on you I guess. I used to get some right stick, and not all of it purely verbal I also used to get a bit when visiting family in Wales what with my Worcestershire accent, so I couldn't win I'm glad this Saturday's encounter is in Cardiff, otherwise I would be a lot twitchier than I am.