The Falkland Islands

[robby b]

The Falklands were first settled by a small number of French people who later left. Then they were settled by a small number of British who also later left. Then they were settled by a small number of Argentinian people between 1820 and 1833... The nation called Argentina has existed since 1816 when it officially declared independence from Spain. I thought that these Argentine settlers may have been literally chased away physically by some Brits but one of the new things that I learnt today from Blandy's great summary of the islands' history (over in the imperialism thread) is that they were asked to leave by the UK - as this is what the king wished - and that some of them did, to avoid confrontation. And then a British naval ship arrived to look after the islands.

In Argentina everywhere you go you are pretty much constantly reminded that "Las Malvinas son Argentinas" ("The Falklands are Argentinian") because this is written in big letters in so many places: laminated posters in the windows of various buildings, including some government buildings, and the windows of local buses, in murals, graffiti, many war memorials... Those 1800s Argentinian settlers are a part of the argument. Another part is that Argentina inherited them from Spain in the 19th century. And then there's the islands' proximity to Argentina and the discovery of oil and its potential. And if we think about all the little islands around the UK (Isle of Wight, Isle of Man, Orkneys, Shetlands, Scilly, etc... )... Do any of them belong to another country? No, they're all part of the UK. I suppose that could be part of some Argentinians' reasoning for viewing the situation as unfair.

In 1982 the population of the Falklands was apparently somewhere between 1,800 and 1,900. It has since doubled, it's now 3,662 according to a recent estimate. But most of the people live in East Falkland, one of the two main islands: 2,829 - from the 2016 census. 

In the 1970s there were talks among some British politicians about coming up with some settlement with Argentina. A few US politicians offered proposals too. Nothing came of the discussions in the end. But despite the Falklands War, Argentina has continued to present its complaint to the UN about British sovereignty over the islands.

So here's an idea that I came up with earlier today of how I think the UK could potentially compromise without any of the Falklanders losing their being British: ceding West Falkland, the other of the two main islands, to Argentina. Why not when the vast majority of the Falklanders live on East Falkland? The minority of Falklanders that live on the west island (less than a thousand people, that's a village) could have a choice of various options...

1. to move to the east island and be given a lovely new house there and the same amount of land/garden, etc... plus some financial compensation (partly for the hassle of moving house!)
2. to stay where they are and share the island, hopefully harmoniously, with some Argentinian settlers but keeping their British citizenship and British way of life, of course (there would still be a few British shops, a British pub, British TV, etc, etc... ). I appreciate this option is a bit complicated as it would mean living with Argentina's laws but these are not so different from UK laws. And they could always move to any part of the UK if they changed their mind. They could also obtain Argentinian citizenship and enjoy the various benefits that dual citzenship offers.
3. to move to the UK (perhaps to one of our many islands, some of which are quite similar to the Falklands, I think, e.g. some Scottish ones) again compensated financially and rehoused very well and appropriately. 

Then we come to the issue of the oil. We could come to a deal with Argentina over it. Why not? Perhaps 50/50 or something quite close to that. We have a deal with France over the channel with fishing rights for example. Would the 3,662 Falklanders need all that oil? No, so surely a lot of it would be for the UK government. But out of the two countries, who needs it more? The UK is in a mess now, yes, but Argentina is in even more of a mess (with a significantly worse level of poverty and 75% inflation last year!) and this is not the fault of the Argentinian people as a whole... so why should they be denied the benefit of some nearby natural resources? The world needs to share more. The people who are partly to blame for Argentina's very alarming situation are certain corrupt or incompetent politicians and certain corrupt or incompetent business people, current and recent. But politicians and business leaders come and go, hopefully the next ones will be significantly less corrupt and/or more competent.

Finally, I believe that East Falkland is a little bigger than West Falkland. And if a majority of the many smaller islands stayed under UK rule with only a minority of them changing hands to Argentina, then overall the Falklands would still be British in terms of total land area. They could also stay overall British with slightly more British inhabitants than Argentinian ones. There would be various detailed conditions that Argentina would have to agree to.

Edited March 15, 2023 by robby b

[robby b]

"Argentina says it has a right to the islands, which it calls the Malvinas, because it inherited them from the Spanish crown in the early 1800s" 

From an interesting summary of the Falkland Islands from the BBC: 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18425572

[bickster]

4 hours ago, robby b said:

And if we think about all the little islands around the UK (Isle of Wight, Isle of Man, Orkneys, Shetlands, Scilly, etc... )... Do any of them belong to another country? No, they're all part of the UK. I suppose that could be part of some Argentinians' reasoning for viewing the situation as unfair.

Isle of Man is not part of the UK, nor are the Channel Islands (which are much closer to France than UK) both are UK Dependancies but are also independently governed

[Seat68]

People still remember fairly well the Falklands war, any giving to the Argentinians is not likely to go down well.

[tonyh29]

5 hours ago, robby b said:

Then we come to the issue of the oil. We could come to a deal with Argentina over it. Why not? Perhaps 50/50 or something quite close to that.

The UK and Argentina signed a Joint Declaration on Oil in 1995 but don't think the declaration really had any legs and  it was rescinded in 2007  

Edited March 15, 2023 by tonyh29

[robby b]

23 hours ago, bickster said:

Isle of Man is not part of the UK, nor are the Channel Islands (which are much closer to France than UK) both are UK Dependancies but are also independently governed

Yes, the Isle of Man is a bit of a strange one (and I don't mean in a Fast Show sense)... I was wrong to put it in my list as officially it's a British Crown Dependency rather than part of the UK but it's not part of a country other than the UK either.

[robby b]

On 15/03/2023 at 04:24, Seat68 said:

People still remember fairly well the Falklands war, any giving to the Argentinians is not likely to go down well.

No, I don't suppose it would go down well but I guess that's partly because some people don't consider the Argentinians who did not want the Falklands War, who didn't want that crazy, reckless invasion of the islands, who hadn't asked for it to happen. However, though they could be against it privately it was dangerous for them to declare this openly and to protest.

Unfortunately the invasion was popular initially with some members of the Argentine public (for example, I was just reading an account of the events from someone was a boy at the time and who remembers that some people put a little Argentina flag on their car). But in contrast there were actually many Argentinians who didn't want their f******* b****** military dictator president, Galtieri. Very soon after the the end of the Falklands War he was removed from power and it was the start of a return to democracy in Argentina, a big relief for a lot of people in the country. 

Before the Falklands War there had been very courageous protests in the streets against him and his government, as Blandy pointed out, partly against human rights abuses (for which he was eventually arrested in 1983, once he was no longer the president). He had been in support of the 1976 military coup and the resulting military dictatorship was then responsible for a lot of 'disappeared' people during the seven years leading up to the Falklands War. The military dictatorship which kidnapped, tortured and/or murdered people.

Edited March 16, 2023 by robby b