snowychap Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 that argument is not relevant the numbers defaulting will not affect the housing market a fraction as much as a bank collapse would you still not answer my point if those people shoudl never have been given a mortgage, would never in the long term be able to afford it then the inevitable is closure you can only go on for so long and several football clubs have now found that These people are not the speculators which you railed against in earlier posts. They are real people not much different from you and yet you look on them with the uncaring attitude of the 'clever' consumer and in an attitude that would not be out of place in the 1922 committee, frankly. Perhaps the inevitable is closure but not in the rather savage, unfeeling and unforgiving way which you propose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 no snowy you either miss the point or delberatly so they made a known choice to buy their own house and mortgage themselves up to the hilt (whever THEY might be) and someone either let them down badly in advising them (sue em) or they were naive, but what led manty first time buyers to this was the uinnecessary drive to own theis 'dream' home the root cause is clear to me now some reposssions will always happen, sickness, reduncancy, Marriage breakup etc. shoudl everyone be protected ? Labour thorugh making bankruptcy so much easier and pianless actually have helped out many in debt to get out of the situation in a painless way. I know that personally through family. I am all for helping those who can not help themselves (cancer sufferers, to some extent reduncany, Mental illness etc.) but when healthy mentally stable people make descions and it is the wrong one, sorry but that is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret+blue_watch Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Oh dear, looks like we are in the middle of a hugh crash, good job i didn't listen to Phil and Krusty, the BBC, Fionnuala Earley et al and all the other VI's, spin artists and billy bullshitters throughout the media.All together now:Don't worry it will be different this time, stable economy, low unemployment, low interest rates, supply and demand etc etc...yawn. Hey maybe in 2-4 years when the market bottoms out a whole generation of people may be able to afford a roof over their and their families heads (how selfish), without putting themselves on a treadmill of debt until they die, and having to take out mortagages that border on criminal and totally irresponsible just to get 'on the ladder', purely to benefit those at the top of the property pyramid scheme, like the baby boomers, banks, brokers, estate agents and BTL's to name just a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 and AWOL and snoy constant references to what labour should or should not have done is irrelevant, yes I would loved to see them crack down on banks and restrict lending, yes I woudl have loved to see them quthorise a massive expanison in public housing It is snowy. Please get your typing sorted, Ian. It becomes rather tiresome having to translate in order to get to a point when one can discuss what you have said. Of course it is relevant. The government is the government and when actuality shows that the policy which they pursue (or are unwilling to change) is flawed (and not what I would suggest is the best thing in the first place) and when their supporters continue to blame the originators of the policy two decades ago for the malaise now, then I think it is very pertinent. There are two possibilities: the labour party have accepted that 80s Thatcherite mantra of home ownership as read - in which case labour and its supporters ought to stop going on about it; or, the labour party still don't accept that it is the bedrock it has become and yet haven't had the balls to change it - in which case labour and its supporters ought to be roundly castigated for not having addressed this issue in the manner which they would want. sometimes people have to take responsbility for their own lives and descions Not much of a problem with that as long as policy makers also take responsibility for the policies which allow and encourage those bad decisions to be made and as long as people don['t take the attitude that everyone who makes a bad decision ought to be hung out to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 hasn't everyone accepted the mantra of home owning ? only a few don't and C&B watch agree with you totally on what you say but as you say this will bottom out, there will be 'bargain's' and so it starts. Who knows when it bottoms out I might be able to take advantage amnd get the house I want because it will become affordable - £160-170k .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 and C&B watch agree with you totally on what you say but as you say this will bottom out, there will be 'bargain's' and so it starts. Who knows when it bottoms out I might be able to take advantage amnd get the house I want because it will become affordable - £160-170k .... And well done, you'll have just become someone who profits directly from the misfortune of others (at least someone who is thinking about how they can profit from the misfortune of others). I think they call them capitalists. :winkold: It's only a short step from that to investment banking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 How far can they fall? lets not be silly, there isnt a government worth its salt that will allow the disenfranchisement of its homeowning class, its more likely that we will get invaded by San marino than house prices will fall and stay down high house prices are one of the great price fixing issues of our time, it is scandalous. I know people who over 20 years have earned less money than their house. Sorry, pet hate of mine, I dont have anything against people owning houses, I just think that more people should have hte possibility of owning their own home than is currently the case, and this state of affairs is a deliberate political act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 and C&B watch agree with you totally on what you say but as you say this will bottom out, there will be 'bargain's' and so it starts. Who knows when it bottoms out I might be able to take advantage amnd get the house I want because it will become affordable - £160-170k .... And well done, you'll have just become someone who profits directly from the misfortune of others (at least someone who is thinking about how they can profit from the misfortune of others). I think they call them capitalists. :winkold: It's only a short step from that to investment banking.... misfortune of others ?? nope I would imagine in the vast majority of cases you buy from others equally 'taking advantage' only buying repossed houses could you claim this ? but have you ever shopped in the sales ? or took advantage of an online offer ? or the £10 tonight at VP ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret+blue_watch Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 hasn't everyone accepted the mantra of home owning ? only a few don't and C&B watch agree with you totally on what you say but as you say this will bottom out, there will be 'bargain's' and so it starts. Who knows when it bottoms out I might be able to take advantage amnd get the house I want because it will become affordable - £160-170k .... No other country in the world has our tradition of a)being obsessed with house prices and b)having the property market as the main driving force in the economy. And yes it will start all over again, proving yet again that as a country, as a people and as an administration we have learnt nothing from what has gone on before. The two great myths about rising house prices are that they are good, and they are fuelled by supply and demand.What they do is create and illusion of wealth leading to debt fuelled excess and cause divisions within society.And Labour, just like the Tories before them have been on the sidelines cheering.Vince Cable has been warning for many years of the problems we face now, most other MP's were too busy with their snouts in the trough to give two shits. We could probably close this thread and re-open in 10+years time.Or maybe it will be different THAT time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 misfortune of others ?? Yep, that's what I said. nope I would imagine in the vast majority of cases you buy from others equally 'taking advantage' only buying repossed houses could you claim this ? I'm not sure I quite understand this? Are you saying that you will only buy your dream home for an affordable price if the person selling it is doing so under no duress or it hasn't been repossessed? but have you ever shopped in the sales ? Yes. Never bought the shirt of someone else's back, though. or took advantage of an online offer ? Still not getting what you're on about. or the £10 tonight at VP ? Nope, still not understanding unless you mean someone has offered me a season ticket which cost them £500 and which they're offering for £200 because they need to put food on the table as the impending recession and current economic situation has hit them so hard that they are no longer able to afford to go to the Villa. And no, I don't think I've ever taken advantage of someone else's situation in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Surely there isnt really an argument about this? The house next door to me would cost £380,000. Thats three hundred and eighty thousands pounds. If I earned 20 grand a year, I could pump every penny i owned into that, even on an interest free loan and it would take me NINETEEN YEARS to pay it off And this is a three bed semi, nothing special it is completely obsene And do you know that makes it totally unacceptable? 15 years ago it was a council house If you can defend the morals behind that then Thatcher won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 you can't Pete and thats why house price rises should be taxed in few occassions has the rise got **** all to do with the oweer the situation in this country is not substainable at the levels it was for me my house is affordable for the average age earner but average prices nearly 10 times average wages is not heard something on BBC news that Labour are looking at some of the similar policies to the Libs and I hope so, isntead of asking private builders to provide stock it should be the councils. Apparently an excellent scheme in Liverpool runs where diused houses are broght by the councils and done out to rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 heard something on BBC news that Labour are looking at some of the similar policies to the Libs and I hope so, isntead of asking private builders to provide stock it should be the councils. Apparently an excellent scheme in Liverpool runs where diused houses are broght by the councils and done out to rent. it doesnt matter what labour are looking at does it? Brown and blair before him have made such a monumental cock up of this that the Tories are a shoe in. the Tories. FFS. Where do I sign up for emigration? I was chatting to a freind of mine last night who serves on the Police force rubbing their hands together with glee - so Labour can plan what they like, it doesnt matter, because what matters now is what whatever hes called that runs the Tory party is planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcgrathsknees Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 The two great myths about rising house prices are that they are good, and they are fuelled by supply and demand.What they do is create and illusion of wealth leading to debt fuelled excess and cause divisions within society Not a truer word spoken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 yes indeed but ho do you stop it ? the majority of the country believe in the free market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 29, 2008 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2008 you can't Pete and thats why house price rises should be taxed in few occassions has the rise got **** all to do with the oweer Council tax should be scrapped and replaced by ad valorem property taxes, paid by the owner of the property whether they can find a tenant or not. End of. Publicly owned housing isn't the answer, and neither is a system that is stacked towards BTL landlords (what with the development restrictions imposed by green belts and having a system where the landlord who can't find a tenant pays no tax). A true free market > socialism > some unholy hybrid of the two (Mussolini-style corporatism being an example of such a hybrid, though there are others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 29, 2008 Moderator Share Posted August 29, 2008 having a system where the landlord who can't find a tenant pays no tax Not true here, empty properties are still liable for council tax (speaking as a landlord meself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted August 29, 2008 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2008 having a system where the landlord who can't find a tenant pays no tax Not true here, empty properties are still liable for council tax (speaking as a landlord meself) I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 29, 2008 Moderator Share Posted August 29, 2008 unless of course you decide that when there's no tenant in, you will do some repairs *whistles* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkery Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Yeah rip out the bathrroom if you don't want to pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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