Week 4 - 350 rolls of toilet paper

[BOF]

Interestingly as well, it's illegal to punch a ball in player's possession.

Yet it happens all the time. Superbowl 48, Byron Maxwell. Chancellor Monday night. Peanut Tillman made a career out of it.

So where do we draw the line? Flagging absolutely everything, or letting some things go?

I believe that in general if there is a rule that is being knowingly and consistently ignored by the referees then there needs to be a discussion about modifying or abandoning that rule altogether, because it creates a no-mans-land where players aren't sure what they can and can't do.  You can not have rules that are not applied, because by definition they're not rules then.

Ideally a sport should only ever contain rules that are actively applied, and at that, applied all of the time when seen.

Obviously refereeing errors are not included, as they'll happen.  But if refs are seeing stuff and consistently letting it slide then that rule needs to be looked at.

[StefanAVFC]

I'm inclined to partially disagree.

How many times in a football match is a referee praised for 'letting a game flow', whereas other refs are criticised for blowing the whistle every 10 seconds? A lot of decisions are subjective. In the NFL, there are holds on the majority of plays. The refs can't just miss all of them, so they must let some go. In the Seattle game on Monday, there were a shitton of holds and blocks in the back from both teams that were let go. It was a massively under-penalised game.

A rule is a rule, I agree. But I don't agree with enforcing a rule if it clearly has no effect on what happens. You see it in football all the time.

People are trained to punch the ball out from the carrier. Yet it's illegal.

On the same token, nobody complained about that final play until 10/15 minutes after the game. Commentators didn't notice. Detroit players didn't notice. You'd think that if they were subject to some a major wrongdoing, they'd be jumping up and down screaming?

[BOF]

You hinted at another thing there that gets my goat.  Rules all of a sudden being called or becoming more significant as you get closer to the end of a game or are nearer to the endzone.  Similar to the foul that doesn't get called in the box in soccer that would always be a free kick in the centre circle.  Does my f**king head in.  If it's a foul outside the box then it's a foul inside the box.  Yes the consequences are greater but that's the defender's fault.

I do agree with you on the subjectivity thing but I was really on about rules that never get applied, as opposed to things like holds where a percentage do and a percentage don't.  I think with regards to punching the ball, it's probably so difficult to spot definitively in the heat of the moment that the refs probably give the benefit that it might have been a legal strip or attempt.  That perhaps the existence of the rule; albeit unenforced; at least stops the blatant no-holds-barred punches that might come in its absence.

In general I do find the NFL, on and off the pitch to be massively over-regulated anyway.  I see Von Miller is merely the latest to get fined ($11k) for an endzone dance the other day.  You just shake your head in resignation at this stage with that lot

[leviramsey]

Of note: 25% of the current NFL officials have less than 2 seasons experience.

One of the unheralded functions of NFL Europe was training for new officials, including ones who were being promoted to new jobs. You do wonder if the NFL needs a minor league partially to improve the officiating...

I also saw an interesting article on how consistently terrible offensive line play is around the league, attributing that to the current off season restrictions. So maybe what's needed is a two tier off season: guys with four years of experience or who played more than say 300 snaps the previous season can't be fined for not showing up before the week before what's now the second preseason game. But for the other players (younger guys and backups) they would report say a month earlier and play an extra 4 preseason games (and maybe you limit this to teams that were bottom half), which would give the officials more time to learn a new position and see things.

Maybe call the extra 32 preseason games the NFL Summer League and encourage playing to win: every win in the Summer League takes off a win for the purposes of draft position if you miss the playoffs: went 4-0 in the summer but missed the playoffs at 9-7? Here, have the 4th overall pick (where a 5-11 team would normally pick). Players get Summer League win bonuses of $1000. The games would get television viewership, and could even be played in smaller or even foreign cities.

[BOF]

Does the college system not provide referees to the NFL aswell Levi?  I'm about as ignorant of college football as it is possible for an NFL fan to be.

[kurtsimonw]

Interestingly as well, it's illegal to punch a ball in player's possession.

Yet it happens all the time. Superbowl 48, Byron Maxwell. Chancellor Monday night. Peanut Tillman made a career out of it.

So where do we draw the line? Flagging absolutely everything, or letting some things go?

If that's true, 99% of fumbles are "illegal", what a dumb rule.

I think this is the big issue, as BOF has said, is the inconsistencies. Everyone acknowledges that there's holding on pretty much every play, yet it's only called a few times a game. Players go in motion and don't set before the ball is snapped. There's been a tonne of defensive PI calls this season, where the ball was about 20 yards from the receiver and should've been deemed uncatchable. 

The thing that bothers me most is this pretend health and safety nonsense, most specifically the lining up over centre during a FG/punt. Apparently they put such an emphasis on it because it's quite dangerous for the centre. Surely if it was such a concern, they would throw the flag when a guy lines up over centre and not AFTER the ball is snapped? Throwing a flag afterwards is not health and safety at all.

[BOF]

Oh yes that is another one.  Pass interference when there's no way the receiver was ever getting the ball.  It wouldn't matter so much if it wasn't usually such an enormous penalty.

[leviramsey]

Does the college system not provide referees to the NFL aswell Levi?  I'm about as ignorant of college football as it is possible for an NFL fan to be.

The NFL does recruit officials from the college ranks, but the college rules are somewhat different (basically the NCAA dramatically redid the rulebook in the 50s, generally to make the sport less like rugby and association football).  On top of that things generally happen somewhat more slowly in college (though college teams will run plays quickly, once the play starts, the players are generally slower).  All of those mean that it's typically taken at least 20 or so games in the NFL for officials to make the adjustment to what is to some extent a new code.

[leviramsey]

Major rule differences between NFL and NCAA

• NFL requires two feet (with exceptions) inbounds, NCAA only requires one (so there's no "one butt equals two feet" rule: the NCAA rule is effectively "if any part of a receivers body touches inbounds while he has control of the ball, it's a catch")
• NFL players are down by contact only when tackled or forced to ground, NCAA players are down by contact if any part of the body besides the hands touches the ground (there's no special procedures to make oneself down in the NCAA, while in the NFL, you have the QB slide rule and the kneel and say "down" rule; yes, in the NFL it's still legal for a QB to fake a kneel-down by not indicating to the ref that he's down without contact)
• NCAA pass interference is always the lesser of 15 yards or spot, with an automatic first down
• NCAA effectively gives a free timeout on every first down (this is part of the reason college games normally take 4 hours)
• NCAA defensive holding is 10 yards but no automatic first down
• NCAA missed field goals are considered touchbacks, or the original line of scrimmage if inside the 20
• NCAA does not have a 2-minute warning (in the NFL, this is a vestige of when timekeeping was association-football style: the referee's watch kept the time and he added however much stoppage time he deemed reasonable, with him being required to announce when there were two minutes left in a half)
• NCAA conversions are from the 3 yard line
• NCAA overtime is dramatically different: each team gets an equal number of possessions from the opponent's 25 yard line with no game clock, with the game ending whenever one team has a lead after an equal number of possessions.  After the second possession for each team, kicking conversions are disallowed (you have to go for 2 after every touchdown).
• NCAA replays are booth review (referee does not do the review), with each coach having one challenge

Then there are a lot of things that are penalties in one and not the other.  College also sends off for pretty much any tackle involving leading with the helmet or launching.  The NCAA also in general has a looser (more things can be called) interpretation of holding.

[BOF]

Interesting list, thanks Levi.