OutByEaster? Posted March 11, 2007 Moderator Share Posted March 11, 2007 I think I probably would too. On O'Neills deification, do you not feel some of that is based on him being part of the Holy Trinity of new manager, new owner and new board, rather than a reflection of an excitement based only on a new manager ? No, when he joined under Ellis few knew he was part of some of the takeover options and his deification was made then when he joined and has stuck with some ever since and why not when you consider the options maybe available at the time. I'd disagree, takeover talk was at boiling point when O'Neill joined, I think that many if not most saw O'Neill as an indication of a brighter future on the horizon, an arrow fired directly from God (Or Randy Lerner in this case) to smite the demon. I think it's this feeling that inspired the hysteria that accompanied his arrival, he was Randy Lerners impending takeover made flesh. By arriving first, he became the man that carried all our hopes of the bright new future and with that came the weight of our expectation. That expectation, I think was overly inflated not on our opinion of him as a manager but on our vision of him as carrying the future. In that scenario, it would be easy to see the start to his Villa era as an indiciation that he's not the coach we'd hoped. Having completed one miracle and removed Mr Ellis, it was easy to imagine that others would follow in sharp order. Now it seems he's just a football manager managing a football team. I don't see that as a failure on Martin O'Neills part. I think we have a Chairman who thankfully no longer believes in the Aston Villa managers three year cycle, it remains to be seen how successfully we as fans will adjust to that. You certainly argue your point eloquently and with consistency, and it's good to see that whilst you didn't find your calling you haven't let those O levels go to waste, but it appears that on this subject we're starting from different positions, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 I said 'few KNEW he was part of....' and if you read back you'll see that. When he joined many more speculated he would be the chosen one, although Lerner had other options as did most of the other groups, now outed by Ellis, that many on here refused to accept existed. Its just possible he had to be accepted before Lerner agreed the deal, as he was after all the main prize seemingly of one of the failed takeover bids. I'd agree with all the rest of your comment mind, I just feel he might have been somewhat of a fait accompli for Lerner, but one which has proved very useful nevertheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 13, 2007 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2007 I said 'few KNEW he was part of....' and if you read back you'll see that. Apologies for the misread. I think there's benefit for the new chairman in having the figurehead manager arrive first and take the limelight, especially if as in Lerners case the limelight isn't something you covet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I said 'few KNEW he was part of....' and if you read back you'll see that. Apologies for the misread. I think there's benefit for the new chairman in having the figurehead manager arrive first and take the limelight, especially if as in Lerners case the limelight isn't something you covet. The biggest asset O'Neill gives us and few appreciate it, especially those too desperate to make him a Demi God, is that he was a superb choice with his experience to be in charge when an overseas owner came in. He must have made Lerner's life extremely easy being both intelligent, experienced at running clubs and superbly communicative. His kudos as a manager helped in keeping the media at bay too, as you highlight. Somewhere in the future the need will be to gain a higher profile for the club, ideally through consistently good results on the pitch and while Lerner has shown a great faith in his coaches if the Browns fans are to be believed, results count especially when big sums have been ard hopefully will be spent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 What he hasn't done in my view is performed as well as some think he has and this none stop 'give him time', this wait until tomorrow spiel was always pathetic, and now its getting beyond belief. I think O'Neill is one of the best managers in Europe and has performed to around the level I would expect a manager of his ability to do. If Alex Ferguson had taken over I wouldn't have expected much more. This give him time issue is logical and sensible if you ask me as it takes time to transform a team from relegation fodder to European challengers. The difference is that you think a manager who is held in the regard that MON is should be producing more whereas I don't think any manager could do much more. I think MON needs more time to take us to the level that I think we will reach which is at the minimum top 6. I always expected a season like this when MON was appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 So would you say you're making him a Demi-God there Tom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity-Tom Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 To suggest such a thing is blasphemous Chris. He is not a demi god, he is a god in his own right! :winkold: A bit like me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFart Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 December 1968, Tommy Docherty was the Truth, the Hope and the Light, but in the event all he did was stave off relegation to the old 3rd Division for another year. August 2006, Martin O'Neill is seen by many in the same way. Hope comes back. We hadn't even been relegated and the hysteria wasn't quite as great. He has more between the ears than Tommy Doc, more of a footballing brain. But... I do see certain parallels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Football is not a statistic. In my opinion Young is comfortably worth several of Gabby. How do you back that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 14, 2007 Author Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2007 ...this none stop 'give him time', this wait until tomorrow spiel was always pathetic, and now its getting beyond belief.... that's one point of view. ... doesn't mean I think he should be replaced...I would still be willing to see how far he does take us next season. And then the opposite point of view, in the same post. Most confusing. You appear to be calling your own reasonableness pathetic and beyond belief. They say a lot of people are their own harshest critics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 IF he was as good as his write ups he doesn't need the time. This doesn't mean I think he should be replaced although I have to admit with the changes likely come the summer in Europe I'd be very tempted to move him upstairs and bring one of the big hitters if we could, He is as big a hitter as we could possibly hope for. I'm really glad that you have nothing to do with our football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Football is not a statistic. In my opinion Young is comfortably worth several of Gabby. How do you back that up? Read it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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