sparrow1988

2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Thats good to know thanks for the info. No rush on my behalf but im sure the trans community will want answers immediately and the same with female atheletes alreafy competing. 

The more time it takes the more your going to have Sharon davies types scenario where she cant express her opinion without receiving hate mail

Of course they do, but stuff like this can't be proven immediately. It takes time unfortunately.

Opinions need to be backed up with facts on topics like this. She's been fairly sparse with providing the evidence to back-up her fears for the sport . She's free to express her opinion, but if she is challenged on it, which is what the majority of people will do, then she needs to provide evidence. Death threats and so on are not ok - just so we're clear.

8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Again i was merely saying piers alluded to this. If people actually read my post i said i didnt agree with what he was saying but understand the point he making even if it was bad example.

I know that you weren't agreeing with him. I read your post. I just think it's ridiculous bringing Piers Morgan into a debate about a complex and nuanced scientific topic. If you can bring in opinions from experts who say similar then fine, but Piers Morgan says what he says for one reason, and one reason only - to keep Piers Morgan's name in headlines.

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Problem is how long is this going to take? Also are you going to involve someone in the transgender community when doing this research as they should be involved?

It takes as long as it takes. Why is there a rush to come to a decision as opposed to making the right decision? Also, there's a transgender woman called Joanna Harper undertaking research (at a Uni in the UK - Warwick or Loughborough maybe) into it already, so they are already invloved.

22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think piers morgan once highlighted this. He said if usain bolt ever transitioned into a woman is it ok for him to be involved in womens sports? Same with mayweather in boxing. Obviously not gonna happen but i get what he is getting at

As @chrisp65 said, Piers Morgan? Seriously? His opinion of a trans woman is probably a man who likes to dress up as a woman at the weekends.

However, the bit in bold would be the ultimate experiment. Would the transitioned Bolt, with the loss of strength and muscle associated with transitioning, be able to haul his massive frame ,which would remain largley unchanged, over 100m in 10.49 secs (the current 100m record for women)? There's only 0.9 secs in the difference.

15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

And who is going to do the science and research? Any ideas? 

How longs that going to take?

There is a lot of research out there already, and the people who already undertaking the research will continue doing it. In the meantime, why should trans women be excluded from women's sports when they are not over-proprtionally successful in those sports? Why is the reflex reaction to ban them or create a different category? Allowing them to compete would also help with further research as real-life empirical data could be gathered as opposed to theoretical studies being done. It might be unfair (might also not be - nobody can say for certain) on the women currently involved sport, but it would be for the better in the long run in ultimately determining whether or not trans women have an unfair advantage over the other women competing.

That's me for now, and I can't see myself changing much. Still got 0.5 in the bank, so depending on Bailey's minutes in the first few weeks (we know what Stevie is like regarding doing what he says regarding who's going to start), I might be swapping out him and Williams for a more 5.0 defender and a 4.5 midfielder.

3 hours ago, a-k said:

Man, I hate twitter. I've had Ward as my backup GK for about a week with around 3% ownership. Blown up to 14% overnight.

Tbf, everyone who puts thought into this game was going to go for a 4.0 starting goalkeeper if there was one. I'm surprised it's not actually way higher that 14%. Up to 14.9% now.

17 minutes ago, Risso said:

Women transitioning to men and then taking part in men's sport isn't regarded as an issue, as I'm sure sparrow is all too aware.

I'm well aware that it will most likely never be an issue. I'm also well aware of the fact that men transitioning to women is a potential issue. At the moment, it isn't the major issue that it's made out to be. I was also sceptical about it at first. I saw Laurel Hubbard qualify for the olympics at thought to myself that it didn't seem right. I thought the same when Lia Thomas won at that swimming event, but after reading a bit about it and listening to experts explain the subject, I am currently of the opinion that it is not an issue. It has the potential to become one, and my opinion is subject to change should contrasting evidence arise, but at the moment my opinion is that, it isn't an issue. You may not agree with my stance, but I'm not welded to this position either. I'm willing to consider any opinions backed up with facts to the contrary. At the moment Davies' comments/opinions do not fall into this category.

25 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

That will literally never happen. Ever

I know. I was countering the point about Fury smashing middleweights and what damage he woud do. But if by some freakish miracle it did actually happen, then that person would have earned that fight.

14 hours ago, YouUnastanFren said:

threemium

10 hours ago, CarryOnVilla said:

new contract 

4 hours ago, CarryOnVilla said:

2025

My favourite ITK on the interweb

6 hours ago, Risso said:

99% of the time, a trans person living their life as they see fit causes no issues with anybody else. @blandy summed it up perfectly above, so I won't repeat his excellent comments. But pretending that being a male now or once upon a time isn't potentially problematic is ridiculous, and does nothing to further either trans or women's rights. Trying to compare a natural athletic ability that certain people have to the advantage males have over females is nonsensical. If you did away with male/female separation in sport as you appear to be suggesting, then in most sports women would never win anything again. Even with sports, eg boxing, there are sub-divisions based on weight to level things up. Can you imagine the damage Tyson Fury would do to the average middleweight, never mind a female boxer? There has to be protection for hard won rights for women. That doesn't mean that trans women should be excluded, but there needs to be sensible coversations without hatred being chucked around from both sides.

Im not suggesting to do away with male/female segregation in sports. What I’m saying is until it’s proven (the opposite is accepted by experts in the field as true at the moment) that until transgender women are proven to have an unfair advantage in sports then what’s the problem with them competing? Let’s see if Lia Thomas who won the the swimming competition in USA a while back ends up competing at a consistently high level.

And regarding your boxing analogy, if a woman transitions to a man, takes up boxing and works her way up to a title fight against the heavyweight champion of the world then they have more than likely earned that fight so let them at it.

And of course there needs to be sensible conversations. That’s a given. But until Sharron Davies can back up her opinion with facts then maybe she shouldn’t be involved in such conversations, because at the moment there is no evidence that corresponds to her view. 

39 minutes ago, bickster said:

The sports governing body (FINA?) agrees with her, they already banned transgender athletes who went through puberty as male from competing in women's swimming events

They did, but a lot of experts on the subject criticised that decision also. I listened to a discussion on a podcast after the decision was made and the some interesting points were made. Transgender women are greatly under-represented in participation in high-level swimming, and ever more under-represented when it comes to success in high-level swimming. Swimming formed the basis of the discussion as Lia Thomas had just won that swimming event in America. This is reprensentative across more or less all sports.

I believe the decision was made based on permanent genetic advantages (although it has been proven that some of these are lost during transitioning), but isn't that exactly what sport is? Why else have the people in on topic been calling for a 6' 4'' Claude Makalele for the past 10 years? I'm also pretty sure that Phillippe Coutinho has some significant genetic advantages over me. Genetic advantages have always and always will be present in sport. Left-handers are massively over-represented among the top-ranked fencers in the world. Black sprinters have inherent genetical advantages which makes them more successful at sprinting. These are also two groups that have experienced stigmatisation and discrimination in the past (to an extent in the case of black people they still do). This debate will go on and on, but IMO, in 100 years or so it will be looked back on as another point in time where the majority of humans (some puritanical lunatics will remain) just say "what on Earth were those people thinking?".

For me, the bigger issue is the inclusion and acceptance of transgender people in everyday life, and sport will play a massive part in that. At the moment, the argument that womens' sport will be ruined by transgender athletes holds no water.

Has Davies provided any information to back up her stance on Transgender athletes in sport (I assume women's swimming in this case), or is she just spouting unfounded fears based on being afraid of something different?

15 hours ago, Xela said:

While she should never receive death threats, I'm more interesting in the media's understanding of 'financial ruin'

She lives in a mansion in Wiltshire worth £1.5m-£2m (cost £1.1m over 10 years ago) as well as having another property in Gloucestershire she rents out. The last car I can find she drove was a a brand new Range Rover. 

She'll be ok. 

 

Did you not read it? Her INHERITANCE is running out. Have some mercy you cold-hearted man

16 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Will he? Why? 

What's this? Delphino suggesting sending a youngster on loan may not be the best course of action??? There have been signs for a long time that the world is ending; global warming, covid, war in Ukraine, but this is the clearest one yet.

Stop the world, I want to get off.

1 hour ago, Steero113 said:

Give him a buzz, see if he’s decided yet. 

Hopefully he's not just a highlights player

Even Ryanair are having a go

Other F1 teams are trolling Alpine now

15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

It's all love with Sir Gary, only banter.

I battle with all levels of " targets " to be fair to myself though.

Yeah, I wasn't accusing mate. Just saw an oppportunity for a bit of fun and took it.

2 hours ago, Genie said:

I’d love to know how the £8.8b saving was calculated.

23 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said:

Really highlights how far in the bag Leclerc had that race if not for the extra pitstop onto hards.

Binnotto went from telling Crofty live on air that they weren't even worried about Verstappen's pace to pretending after the race that they never had any chance of winning it. 

 

Maybe Ferrari know that they've got so much pace in the bag that they're just messing about before the summer break and then they will obliterate the field after the summer break?

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Are you suggesting I’m a coward ? Well would a coward do this ???

 

i did actually start doing it but got really bored. 

I was torn between comapring you to Snake or Homer in the same episode when the Southern gentleman accepts his challenge. But Homer was going to go through with it, so yes, I am stating (not suggesting) that you are a coward.

In all seriousness, I can imagine making such a list would be pretty boring.