Lerner's Driver

Well, you could say it and as it happens, you just have... which is entirely your right to do... buuuttttt... Talk about stating the obvious. I mean it's been said so many times before and it truly is glaringly obvious, so really, why bother? I mean it's like going for a swim and saying, but what about the waves? We all know this is just how Bruce is. Grit your teeth and bear it.

Brucian.

Strange sort of game. Sunderland playing out of their skins and don't look like bottom feeders. They really should be less confident given their position. Their pacy pass and move game is unnerving us a bit, but at the same time, we've had a few decent spells and we should be at least two up by now. Another goal might break them. We're struggling to keep hold of the ball again, which is annoying. All very confusing!

See, I think the issues, differences of opinion, or whatever you wish to call them, are not usefully understood in terms of pro and anti Bruce. Instead, I think it's a lot more about attitudes to progress, so... 'wait and see, there's good and bad' vs. 'he's totally incompetent, we must get rid now'. Looked at this way, there's only one intransigent view point, the other is open minded by definition. For me, it's always been about the tone of the debate because a massive fan uprising, if it is allowed to catch hold, can have a further negative impact on the team's fortunes, even whilst it is obviously accepted that their shit play and/or the manager's input to that shit play are also contributory factors. So, Bruce hasn't totally convinced anybody yet, but it does finally look like something useful is taking shape and in my footballing opinion, that alone presents a decent argument for checking the tone occasionally.

As is your wont, Sir. Thank you for your brevity.

All of my posts are football based, old chap, I never get emotional and bring my hobbies, work and girlfriend into the conversation. Granted, some of what I post is tangential at times, but in this thread at least, it is always done to express my opinion that some, with yourself as the main culprit, need to give the incessant whingeing a rest and just see what unfolds. It has always been my football based opinion that Steven Bruce is far from perfect in executing his managerial duties at this club and probaby most of the others he's been at too. But... as I said a few million pages back, that's what you get with him. His journey is often slow, a bit cumbersome, often inclusive of hiccups and frequently successful in the end. I don't like what sounds like his excuse making either, but it doesn't make me hate him. I don't like the fact he plays Hutton or Thor when both can be liabilities, but I've certainly been wrong about the former in recent weeks. And yes, I didn't like the negative, shapeless, 'don't lose' football we've seen for too long, but nobody on here did. At the same time, I didn't analyse every substitution in order to prove Bruce's incompetence, partly because it would be pointless to do so and party because nobody wants to read it when it comes across as an endless rant. I don't love Bruce or even particularly defend him, other than to say, things are rarely as crystal clear as we believe them to be. Instead, we draw on certain facts including the things we see to construct the theories which suit our vision of the world... But that doesn't mean we are right. Trump happens, Corbyn happens, Hutton happens, Villa playing well and winning under Bruce and his awkward lumpy leadership happens.

You sound like one of the women from Pride and Prejudice, Grasshopper. Apologies if I offended your sensibilities Ma'am.

If I could ask Steven Bruce one question, it would be this... Everyone knows being a football manager is tough. You carry the hopes, dreams and expectations of many thousands of people on your back every day you're in the job. This weight then, must feel unbearable on the occasions when the players are not responding to your ideas and you're in a bad run of form. So... thinking back on your career, can you recall any specific examples of what you did to change things to improve results, or more often than not, did you just stick to your first principles knowing things would work themselves out given time? For the record, I'm not suggesting there is a straightforward, binary, right or wrong answer to the question - the truth probaby lies somewhere between the two (with quite a big dollop of luck also thrown in for good measure) - but, I do think how he responded would be interesting. More of one element than the other, would potentially offer some clues to his 'dinosaur or not' status.

You wouldn't expect anything less from a pro footballer of course, but Adomah is a QPR fan apparently, after watching them as a boy, so he must've had slightly mixed emotions today. All the more credit to him for turning in a stellar performance then!

Well said, Sir. Most eloquent.

Condolences, old chap.

unanimousadjective UK /juːˈnæn.ɪ.məs/ US /juːˈnæn.ə.məs/ If a group of people are unanimous, they all agree about one particular matter or vote the same way, and if a decision or judgment is unanimous, it is formed or supported by everyone in a group.

Great energy. We hustled them non stop after they went ahead. Totally deserved victory, probably the best showing yet. Well done lads! Will you congratulate the manager @Grasshopper?

Well done Steven, keeping the haters at bay for a little bit longer

At least there's that, eh. I was also expressing an opinion, btw. You just didn't like the way I did it. Sound familiar?

Have you noticed the people posting the same thing endlessly too? It must be catching on.

He's recovering from an operation

Thanks for the update. What if our realities are different? Is that okay, or are you saying there's only one way of looking at things? I'm genuinely interested.

Okay, okay, enough about your private time chats with yourself, we know you are man of great character and unshakeable conviction. All that stuff goes without saying, (though we are thrilled to have access to your mental reasoning, of course), more to the point, what do you think of Steve Bruce? Do you rate him?

In case, someone hasn't seen it yet, like the chap above. It's worth it for that reason alone. Plus it's a really brilliant way of proving Steve Bruce is a poor manager. And it keeps this wonderful debate going. So many reasons...

It's worth posting again at least once a week, to help reinforce what everyone absolutely knows as an indisputable fact already. Stevo, will you post it again next week, lest we forget?

Hey lads, in advance of our match with QPR today it occurred to me that our manager is a bit of a tactical dinosaur. Have any of you seen this article written in 2011 by Louise Taylor from the Guardian? I think it may have been posted before, but it really says everything we already know about Steven and his old fashioned Bruce Ball. Have another read to remind yourself how right you are about him. Personally, I can't get enough of being right. Steve Bruce was a manager who refused to move with the times https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked?CMP=share_btn_link

I'm not sure it makes any difference at all why you wanted the club to lose - whether it was purely for your own satisfaction, or any other reason. The simple fact stands alone as your stated preference, for people to have their opinion on and debate.

I suspect Dave meant to add 'explain', but would have been more honest if he'd remembered to include 'one'.

Sometimes forums sacrifice nuance for brevity.