CVByrne

We used to be very poor, we then in the 80's worked together and made hard decisions and made sacrafices to build a better future. We need to do that again, but we are not the same people, the wealth has made us selfish and greedy and nobody is willing to give up anything for the greater good like we did before. The Lisbon treaty was an example, people didn't vote yes because they didn't think we were getting anything like the money the Mastricht treaty got us. The view we've got all we can from the EU, we sure as hell ain't going to contribute anything. Ireland is full of greedy cowards now. We're a changed people, it disgusts me.

Nice little dig at me there Gringo. :winkold: Here is why I personally don't need a Union. I am a very talented and hard worker and I got my promotion and pay increases and all because I'm a valued employee. If I was under paid I would find another job. I will leave my current job at some time in the future I'm sure when a better opportunity arises. Also my bonuses are not imaginary, they are contractual and cannnot be taken away any easier than my pay. I've detailed the exceptional circumstances a few pages back about why they were postponed indefinitly.

No, but the "Social Partnership" where all the public sector unions get together and meet the Government every year or 18 months and bargain for blanket pay rises for all public servants is totally wrong. Utterly wrong. Different areas of the Public sector should get different levels of pay increases. The Grada (Police) are hugely underpaid, while the whole middle management of the Health Service Executive are over paid. It's simply a waste of money giving blanket pay increases in this manner where people on 200,000 get the same % pay increase as someone on 20,000. Someone explain the logic in that ? Ireland is so so different to the rest of the world.

I couldn't agree more. **** cowards, the whole country is now full of cowards. The people who got us out of the 80's would be dismayed by the disgrace we have become.

I have no problem with Private Sector Unions. The reason is because a balance will be found in the end becuase the Union know the Employer has limitations on what it can pay. While the Employer knows they will suffer industrial action if they take advantage of their workers, so will conceed to fair demands. My problem is with Public Sector Unions. They are huge and very powerful. Their Employer is the Government who has access to potentially limitless finance via taxation. The also know their members vote, so they hold that over the Government too. So when a Government is presented with a budget surplus it's hard to negotiate with Unions demanding blanket pay increases particularly close to an election date, because if you don't conceede you could lose your place in Government. It's easier to just give them the money, they'll be happy and you'll get re-elected. There is a big difference between the two types of Union in Ireland.

yep, it is a scare tactic a lot of companies will use Was he in a union? It doesn't matter, if he was permanent staff it was illegal to fire someone for not making it to work because of the weather. Consult a Lawyer and he'll make a packet. Happened to my brother before, work wanted rid of him for no reason so he got a Lawyer. Won the case handy. What kind of sick human being fires someone for not making it to work in a Blizzard anyway. Should be shot.

It has Snowy, Sterling Euro parity will not happen now that ECB will cut rates this year a few times.

No, Ireland is full of greedy, selfish cowards and we deserve the the fate we are about to suffer.

Trichet signalled future rate cuts in Euro Zone, hence forward rates are lower meaning less of a gap is seen in the future between interest rates hence Euro drops against pound. Forward rates are the predicted interest rates at points in the future.

The big mproblem is low to mid income earners are the ones who contribute the most tax to the exomomy because Ireland has a huge middle class. They can't tackle the public finances without hitting them. I found out yesterday that incriments will still be paid this year in the Public Sector so there is no promotion freeze on, incriments are usually over 1000 euro. Considering we are in a deflationary environment and that the levy is tax deductable most public servants spending power will not be eroded. But all of this is very hard to explain to people. So a teacher on 38,000 will get their 1,200 incriment this year and a levy of 2250 on their pension, 48% of which is taken back in tax deduction, which results in that teacher paying 1170 in after tax levy and getting 624 after tax incriment. Leaving net reduction in pay this year of 546 or 45 euro per month. Considering the reduction in Gas and Electricity bills, plus lower mortgage repayments and general deflation that teacher will have more spending power this year than last. But I know this because I work in Finance, but it's very hard to explain to the entire public sector. But I think they levy is fair and they are being asked to make a small sacrafice in the grand scheme of things. We had to do something because Moodys will review our AAA rating today I think. If we maintain that rating that saves us approx 600mil in interest payments this year alone.

You are entitled to your opinion. I was angry at the time because we were told about our bonuses and the amount we were getting. Then the Irish Times got wind of it and phoned the banks saying they were running it as the front page article on their Saturday Paper. The Government and Bank Executives had hasty discussions and because of the importance of the Public Sector cuts being negotiated at the time put pressure on for bonuses not to be paid. Since they are contractual the bank has to pay them, so they were deferred indefinatly, and a pess release was issued to that effect. The Irish Times changed their story. We were contacted on the weekend by our managers and informed of all this so we didn't find out in the papers. People were less than happy believe me, "slaved away in this most difficult year, somehow achieving our ovjectives and then having our reward taken away by the f*ckin Irish Times" to quote a manager in my department. I do understand the situation both the Government and Executives were in. This seems the only option available. Ireland is sinking into a black hole, everyone is going to feel pain, you can suck it up and get on with it or go complain and go on strike. None of this will change the cold hard facts that we're in a bad situation and strike will only make things worse. We need to be brave like we were in the 80's and work together to get out of this. Problem is this country is full of greedy, selfish cowards and we don't deserve to get out of this.

Doctors in Ireland are a disgrace by the way. Paid 250k a year, well over double an NHS doctor. It's a problem we have because we've a two tier medical system so Government has to negotiate with doctors to get them to work in Public Healthcare as well as the Private. But I mean, all sectors of the Public Sector. People who are paid by the Government. You're naming the few who it's hard to ask pay cuts from. But the majority just work office jobs in various deartments and administration. On a side note. Police here in Ireland are vastly underpaid. It's a disgrace for the work they do.

The point is that it was not necessarily up to the government to address it by reducing public sector pay or public sector pay increases but for the private sector workers to bind together and address what they felt as an injustice with their private sector bosses. But then one would always be higher than the other and then they'd play an endless game of catch up, which would result in spiraling wages, which would result in higher inflation, which would result in higher wage demands. It's a tricky thing to balance. Paying people more money isn't always the answer. It's a cruel thing to say but in the complex world of Economics it's a fact.

Your problem with your bonus might suggest otherwise. :? No it wouldn't. Not getting my bonus, although not fair, is a necessary sacrafice. Why? Simple, the Government need to get pay cuts from the Public sector to help stabilise the budget defecit. This shows international markets we are tackling the problem and our AAA rating will be reaffirmed by Moodys this month. This in turn means our cost of borrowing will be less and hence lessen the debt burden on our country. Now I can understand people hate bankers, it would make the Governments job of negotiating those pay cuts harder if those Greedy bankers got bonuses. So despite this simplistic view of all bank employees, I understand it and for the sake of the country we all need to make sacrafices. Well, except the Public Sector that is. Can you see why I might have some beef with them right now?

Perhaps it was. I felt, however, your point about having 'a very strong immune system' in the context of your comments about everyone else not being as hardy or hard working, together with the inference that I drew that some of this indolence on the part of others was because they didn't have the attitude that dragged them to work with a fever just because they 'never take a sick day', warranted something of that sort. No, sick people should stay at home. But you must admit plenty of sick days are "casual sick leave". I'm saying that because my father was a very hard worker he always told me if I worked hard I'd be rewarded for it. Now he was from a different time but it's something I myself like to maintain. I just won't take casual sick leave because of him thats all.

I'm not in a Union because I don't need one. I left my previous job because I got a better one where I currently am. I was promoted inside my first year and have had two excellent annual reviews, if I don't like something in my current job I'll look for another one. But obviously during a recession there will be limited employment opportunities so people have got to stick with what they have. Thats the Private Sector, you can leave your job if you don't like it.

I was making the point that you were only talking about now with regard to the effectiveness of unions in a private sector scenario whereas you had been complaining that over the past x years a gap had occurred between public sector and private sector pay. Perhaps the private sector workers might have got together in those times if they were indeed being screwed over by their bosses (highly likely) and stood up for themselves. In those circumstances they might now be railing against the system which has failed them rather than against other people who are not allowing themselves to be screwed over as much. I see, in some cases I'm sure you're right. The private sector is a big sector though so it's hard to know who has been exploited and who has not. But the Public Private gap was that the Private Sector was paid more than the public sector, which was correct at the time. Benchmarking came in and addressed that inbalance, but the problem occured when the benchmarking had achieved it's purpous. It then over the past 5 or 6 years widened the gap the other way in which Public were payed more than private. It was always talked about and the Government said they would address it but large budget surpluses made it very hard to tackle when we were awash with money. The failure to tackle that has contributed to our current situation, those surpluses were because of Stamp Duty on property and capital gains taxes, revenue which has dried up.

My bank made a profit this year. My section, Capital Markets, made a big profit.

That is a childish response and of course misses the point entirely Plenty of people I work with and plenty of my friends call in sick the odd time after being out drinking. I because of my fathers influence drag myself out of bed and go into work hungover.

Perhaps they are different because they got together and showed that they were not going to be shoved around by those people making decisions about their jobs and pay? I don't understand that statement? Please explain to me how a 30% budget defecit can be tackled by not cutting public sector pay?

I was complaining because our contractual bonus was posponed indefinitley, it is part of my salary that I will always get if I meet the goals set for me. I don't get it all if I don't meet my goals. Simple incentive to work hard. Now because of the stigma associated with the word Bonus I'm not getting it because of the public backlash on the Government. It is, quite simply, a pay cut. It's happened, I'm not going to complain to the bankers Union, times are tough and if a pay cut helps the Government in the Public Sector pay talks which will benefit the country as a whole then it's a fair price to pay. But the Public Sector don't see it that way, the public finances have to be sorted out without cutting their pay. They're used to getting what they want so all this is new to them.

Have you ever been ill? No I seem to have a very strong immune system but I've felt unwell before but nothing to stop me going to work. I was trying to say I've never taken casual sick leave like most people do from time to time. Usually after a nights drinking.

That is utter nonsense Ian. I work damn hard in work and nothing makes me prouder than when my boss does my anual review and puts my contribution down for the year as exceeds expectations. I'm rewarded for my hardwork for that year, I'm happy and I try to maintain that level of hard work, because I know I'll be rewarded for it. People work hard to get promotions, but they don't come ever year, bonuses are there to reward you every year for your work. I think capping them at 20% is necessary though. That is enough to incentivise people to work hard. Anything more would be excess and are only paid to traders based on "profits" for that year. Incentivising them to take risks for short term profits. It's wrong and this mess has proved it wrong. But hammering all bankers and all people who recieve bonuses because of this abuse is just plain wrong

Were these companies losing money for the last decade? Why didn't private sector workers do something then? No these companies are only now in the recession making huge losses and need to cut staff and pay to survive, retail is an example of this. People are not spending and shops have less income and can't afford to pay staff. No amount of Union threats can change that fact. So why is the public sector different? A HUGE hole in the public finances to the tune of 30% appeared in 1 year. How can that be addressed without some pay cuts?

I see nothing wrong in performance related bonuses IF things are going well .... the banking sector is not unique in that regard ... Thing is , lets say you work in a department that has made £100m profit for the year and you've worked hard to help it achieve that .. the department next door makes a loss of say £100m .. should you be penalised for that other departments loss ? or should you get paid a bonus ?? as to his comment " it risks alienating ordinary people if it gave its traders and bosses "exorbitant" bonuses " I wonder what the ordinary people think about MP's expenses ... MP's are not really in any position to preach ...are they ? Spot on. To delve into that a bit more, what about back and middle office areas that do the same work regardless of the profit and loss of traders? People there get paid bonuses based on how hard they worked that year. S o the person who sat around not doing much doesn't get paid as much as the guy who worked hard. It's a system that incentivises people to work hard and they will be rewarded. And remember there is no paid overtime, so sticking round to do that extra work after your working day is over can only rewarded in the bonus. Someone tell me how that system is wrong, how those people are the reason for the ills of the world and why they should be denied modest bonuses of 10-20% for their hard work just because traders and executives took huge risks to maximise yearly profits and pay themselves obscene bonuses of 100 or 200%?