desensitized43

It's been important all a long tbh. People saying she triggered A50 early are forgetting that she waited as long as she feasibly could to trigger as she always had one eye on the elections. She consistently asked for extensions that would (if granted) essentially have taken the remain option off the table, since not participating would have led to a hard cliffedge where no further extension was possible. That's why this outcome is so catastophic for her as PM. She's lost credibility, she's lost trust, she has nothing to leverage with and nothing to threaten with. She won't be PM much longer now and that's why the markets have reacted the way they have because as bad as she is (and she's probably the worst PM in my lifetime), the alternative is way worse.

This whole thing is so humiliating. Having to call emergency summits where political decisions are being imposed on us by other countries, purely because we're all being held hostage by the Tory party. Meanwhile you've got the pathetic sight of May going in there, still spouting meaningless phrases and pretending we'll be leaving by June 30th.

In his mind? I guess we'd be judged to have "legally" left the EU. We could then get to work cutting all standards and rights for peasants back to the time of Dickens, send our army and navy off to recolonise Africa and India, kick out anyone with a vaguely tanned complexion and last but by no means least, we'd all have our country, fish and blue passports back.

Also wtf was she wearing 2 years ago? MC hammer wants his trousers back.

Oh the delicious irony of someone else setting her a hard deadline and walking her to the cliffedge...

She just doesn't listen at all.

I just got that impression tbh! When you've got 600 odd MP's representing (and voting for) 600 odd viewpoints without any discipline to the party whip while being devoid of an ability to compromise an inch on their position, you accept that the end result has to be complete chaos. Personally I'd be comfortable with chaos if the subject matter didn't have such serious implications for all of our lives. At the moment what I'd prefer is just a little bit of discipline from Labour and the SNP to work together for a common cause (ref2/remain).

Isn't there a contradiction that you're decrying the lack of discipline to the party line and at the same time saying you wouldn't vote for someone who's so loyal to the party line that he'll seemingly change his mind at the drop of a hat?

I'm not sure the concept of a political party is dead. We have a parliament where the numbers are so finely balanced that those with fringe views currently have the ability to swing a vote. In the days of Blair and Con-Dem coalition the majority was such that those like Corbyn/MacDonald/JRM etc could vote against their own side and it was fine because the motion would carry. Likewise they would feel they would have to follow a 3-line-whip because the propsect of having the whip withdrawn was very real. In the times we find ourselves in people are in open defiance because they know the numbers are such that May and Corbyn couldn't possibly risk removing the whip for all but the most serious criminal activity...sometimes not even then... Case in point was when those MP's were reinstated so they could bolster the Tory party confidence motion in May.

Really interested to see what the ERG and MPs like mine who rejected everything except a no deal do tonight. Abstain? Reject everything? They're not happy their option that was soundly rejected has been left off.

**** sympathy for her. She wanted the job in the first place knowing full well what a state "dave" had left of the country. Every time she's had the opportunity to compromise or build a consensus with the moderates of the opposition, she decided that she needed to appease the extreme right wing of the party. It's no coincidence that the MP's who quit the party were all from the other side...they could see where she was going. The unforgivable thing is how readily the Tories are willing to sacrifice the union simply to hold their party together...disgusting behaviour. I'm glad it's been voted down and I hope they get wiped out at the next election. I suspect they won't though as there's a lot of those "home counties" voters who's xenophobia isn't just limited to those in the EU and elsewhere abroad but also extends to fellow Brits from other parts of our islands.

He is and he won't get a majority anyway. He'll be in coalition with the SNP and it would be a condition of their support since they won't care how hated they are south of the border.

Game over. Year long extension and back to the country for either a 2nd referendum or a GE now. This can't go on any longer.

Sky News have a little lookup thing so you can see how you're MP votes. Not surprisingly my MP James Adolf Morris voted for "No Deal" only...absolute piece of human filth. What's very interesting is the number of Tories who simply voted No to every option...I suspect there's a protest element in there of MP's who wanted to give the whole Indicative Votes process and the method by which they've come about a kicking. Hardly a mature way to vote though is it? Voting no to every option.

On the Tory side - May has completely lost control of parliamentary agenda so we're having 'indicative votes'. Mogg and rest of the ERG are in the process of caving as we all knew they would given they're not going to be able to engineer a calamity. The DUP are still dancing on the head of pin as they know supporting the deal is as good as ensuring reunification. On the Labour side - **** knows what's going on tbh. Corbyn is a giant empty shell of a leader. For the first time in his entire life he refused to go on a protest march (apparently he had better things to do). In the absence of any direction it appears MP's are now just making stuff up and presenting it as party policy...it's a complete shitshow. Oh and May is still a massive word removed.

I'd love to know how they plan to enforce this. It's a truly crazy law trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted log ago. From a purely 'Brexit' perspective, it's incredibly frustrating when you've tried to educate some people who've fallen for the lies about the EU and you get stuff like this. Not that the EU have a monopoly on stupid law making but you know how this is going to be used by some very prominent throbbers.

But the most important thing is..

There is also the realisation for people on the other side who previousl supported the WA that they might have more to gain than lose if they switch back to voting it down.

The honourable member for the 19th century now indicating he'll back the agreement. It seems the penny has finally dropped he'll get nothing more extreme. I wish someone had seen that coming.

Of course she will. If she doesn't she'd surely have to resign. There seem to be more and more MP's willing to defy and 3-line-whip which in normal times means you're basically resigning the whip but we've already established she's completely toothless.

No Plan at all... Really hope this is taken away from her tonight. She's a pathetic oxygen thief.

It would take a very brave speaker to deny it. Anyway. A lot of the throbbers are going mental over the prospect of indicative votes. You can literally hear them bricking it that they're about to find out just how tiny a minority they really are. Of course they could resign the whip like Soubry and the hard remainers...but they won't because they've always been the biggest cowards in the room.

So how do we think this is going to play out now? I'll say the WA will come back Monday (Bercow will allow as it comes with the extension attached). It'll go down again although I think the ERG (or most of them) will back it. We'll then have indicative votes, but I don't think anyone can have a clue what the outcome of that will be. I reckon it'll be Customs Union + Single Market now.

There's a big discussion that needs to be had around these orders in general.

When I read this yesterday it reminded very much of a scene in Downfall. Where Hitler was knowingly ordering little kids to their death. His inner circle were divided and suddenly Goebbels pipes up with words to the effect of "the people voted for this, they gave us a mandate"