terrytini

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Smokers and ex-smokers.

Can't stress enough there's no science on this that I can find, it's only annecdotal amongst NHS staff

Well, if I’m lucky enough to be spared I will forever more put it down to the fags. At least it will make the thousands of pounds I wasted on them seem more justified .

33 minutes ago, bickster said:

Smokers lungs are buggered, virus finds it hard going in smokers lungs, its not going to stop them getting it, but its unlikely to take refuge in the lungs of smokers by all accounts

Weed is also a relaxant, I wasn't saying weed smokers stand more chace of getting it but the active ingredients do not help the symptoms. Not all medicine is good medicine for your illness.

I knew it. I absolutely f%%# knew it.

Every day for the last ten years I’ve been waiting to discover I’d have been better off carrying on smoking

Whats next ? A virus where it turns out the only immunity is people who’ve been eating 5 cakes a day for the last ten years ?

10 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

People are complaining about increased capacity in the nightingale places? 

 

In as much as it isn’t being used. “ white elephant”.....would you believe ?

The money men must be rubbing their hands with glee at the increasing amount of “ ordinary” people complaining about unnecessary Nightingale hospitals, unnecessary restrictions, exaggerated claims about the disease, economic hardship and the rest.

And it won’t concern them that many now deride the government as incompetent, as this means people will attach less weight to the things they say which DO matter.

And of course the Liar In Chief Over The Water does his bit, getting people to turn on the WHO, implying Officials overstate their health resource needs, and constantly urging a return to work. 

It will make it so much easier for them to justify reopening and all the deaths and illness that will come with it

20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Incompetent, deceitful bastards.

Worth repeating.

1 hour ago, Awol said:

Just listened to the presser. He’s a big orange d*ck and as you say is trying to deflect blame, nevertheless every fact he laid out about the WHO and China was true. 

It’ll be very interesting to hear the Chinese response tomorrow! 

He is clearly completely out of his mind. Astonishing performance ( again).

5 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

These care home figures are going to be frightening aren't they if they ever come out.

A director of one of the largest care home providers in the country said that in their care homes they have 2500 suspected or confirmed cases in 232 of the care homes they run. There are 11,000 care homes in UK in total.

Last weeks ONS figures from week ending 27th March showed 1080 covid 19 related deaths in UK compared with the 713 reported by the NHS at that time. That is over 50% difference. If we transpose that difference to now the true figure of deaths would be around 17,000.  

Discussed on here weeks ago - just like in every other aspect of this disaster we are inexplicably way ahead of all news outlets.

My wife is Deputy Manager of a Care Home.

Mercifully, from my very selfish point of view, she has several serious underlying health conditions which meant her boss barred her from going in. Never thought I’d be thankful for her illnesses. But in the last week before she stopped going ( which was around a month ago now) she had to make the necessary arrangements for what to do at the home over the coming weeks. The stuff she told me was horrific. 
Many Care Homes have a mix of elderly, dementia, and other users. These people have all but been abandoned from the off.

When it comes to numbers, I posted ages ago that Care Home deaths weren’t included, but also that neither were all hospital deaths from Co-vid.......I posted a link which showed the need for a Post Mortem had been waived. As such, it’s only deaths in hospital where the patient tests positive. If they aren’t tested, they also don’t show up on the stats. Likewise deaths at home.

If you factor in that even countries with ( much better ) lockdowns can still expect a long period “ at plateau” ( an infected person on lockdown day could still be infecting people 2/3 weeks later, who in turn could still infect for a further 2/3 weeks) ( imagine that in Care Homes) I think your 17,000 is both conservative as of today, and will be dwarfed in the coming weeks.

There will be no returning to normal this year. A partial lifting of the lockdown will occur in certain sectors, but be tighter in others, as soon as the cases needing hospital are fewer than Capacity.....but anyone thinking that is anything other than an unavoidable and undesirable step into the unknown is fooling themselves.

1 hour ago, blandy said:

As a medical simpleton, I've got a question - sort of related to what the Gov't seem to be doing.

Basically, there's no cure or vaccine at the moment, so clearly the issue/plan is to reduce the number of people getting it at any one time, so the hospitals can cope with the severely ill. So our rate of infection compared to the US or Germany is much much less relevant than the rate v capacity. Yet the media concentrate a lot on comparison with other places and not at all on comparison with capacity to treat people. This seems to be missing a key factor, surely.

Yes we've had stories about Nightingale facilities, but not whether they're sufficient, more than sufficient,  etc. based on stats.

It's like there's a whole set of data missing, and not being sought.

 

I concur.

Need v Capacity ( in particular ‘need’ getting to a point where it’s within ‘ capacity’ ) is the whole ball game, certainly in the short to medium term, yet almost ignored.

14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

For sure, but there was enough reliable data by early-mid February that you and I (to name just two) were taking it seriously.

Well said. I’m sick and tired of hearing Trump and other apologists suggesting this came as a surprise. We were debating it in detail on here in Jan/Feb, I and others had already “ locked down “ in early March.

On 02/04/2020 at 20:44, terrytini said:

No. It’s bollocks.

Im sick of seeing ill uninformed stuff posted as fact on here.

The UK death stats most people refer to only include people tested for, and admitted to, Hospital with the virus, and who die there.

They don’t include anyone who dies at home or in a Care Home for example - although Care Home stats are now being compiled and announced elsewhere, and on at least one occasion were later added to the Headline figure.

You won’t be tested for the virus if you die in a car crash. Coroners are being swamped. The greater likelihood is that people dying due to the effect of virus are being missed as there are many existing conditions which cause the death.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/covid-19-hundreds-of-uk-care-home-deaths-not-added-to-official-toll?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

That’s an “ exclusive” tonight in the Guardian....

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Ah right, it’s okay folks, we’re not on terrytini’s emotional / intelligence level, that’s the problem here, we’re all immature......what a crock of shite that is mate.

Nope, it’s true.

2 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

Spot on!

It’s given me a new appreciation of how easy it must have been for authoritarian governments to come to power during a crisis throughout history. 

Pathetic way of defending a life saving directive.

Ive spent my life campaigning against authoritarian rules, facist politics, and the rest.

To not see the distinction is ridiculous.

For a few weeks people can only go out for exercise ( and the other specified reasons)....all that is being said is that due to people not heeding this they may have to remove that aspect. How would you do it ! Have you volunteered to help the police ?

NHS staff, Care Home staff, pleading for people to stay home.

If they try to keep the restrictions as it subsides, by all means protest, ill join you.

I’ve had it here.

Honestly, my thoughts go out to all those too ill, too old, too restricted,  for whatever reason, to have the luxury of arguing for their right to do what the feel like.

Basic psychology divides our personalities into Parent, Adult, Child.

Only the Child part of us responds to safety concerns by feeling punished.

5 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

On this you're absolutely wrong.

It's a threat to punish the nation if some people don't behave. It's like a shit teacher threatening detention for the whole class if some people at the back won't start talking.

If it was necessary, rather than punishment, it wouldn't be conditional on people breaking the existing rules.

Utterly unfathomable.

It isn’t necessary - UNLESS it’s the only way to achieve what IS.

1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

. . . what the scientific basis for that distinction is.

Lying down isn’t exercising.

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Thanks for the well-reasoned, thought out response. But at least our feelings are mutual. At this point, I just won't bother engaging further. Have a nice day.  

I’m sick to death of reasoning with people bleating about not being able to go out. 
Once the danger receeeds, ill campaign as much as anyone if restrictions remain.

But for now, the carping about not being able to XYZ turns my guts.

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

On this you're absolutely wrong.

It's a threat to punish the nation if some people don't behave. It's like a shit teacher threatening detention for the whole class if some people at the back won't start talking.

If it was necessary, rather than punishment, it wouldn't be conditional on people breaking the existing rules.

On this you are absolutely selfish, pig headed, and wrong.

Yes it’s the law now.

But you were talking about the possible change, as was I

Its not punitive.

Its a requirement - if it happens - for a few weeks.  It could save countless lives.

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

It's the law and current guidance that exercise outdoors, whilst practising social distancing, is not only safe, but a good idea for the benefit of people's physical and mental health.

Imagine being ok with additional measures being introduced, which are clearly punitive rather than necessary, rather than punishing people breaking the existing law. It's amazing how quickly people embrace authoritarianism. I can't believe the attitude of some. 

The more draconian and clearly unnecessary measures appear to be, the more disobedience of the measures there will be.

Idiotic.

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Matt Hancock is a moron, Michael Gove is a moron (and also looks like a Thunderbird character, minus the strings).

They cannot punish the entire nation on the actions of a small minority, the vast majority of people are staying indoors but the reality is that there are 70 odd million people who are allowed to exercise once or twice a day so you will see people out and about.

We are governed by morons exactly when we needed strong leadership.

It’s not a punishment. 

If we’d had a nuclear war, and the air was full of radiation, and people needed to stay indoors for their health, and to reduce strain on those brave enough to look  after us, would you stay in, or go out ?

The only difference is that restriction could last years, this will be a few weeks.

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

What's the actual science behind 'not sunbathing' then?

You can go out to exercise. You can’t go out to lie on a beach. 
What’s confusing ?

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

So now they're threatening to ban exercise outdoors, because people are ignoring the rules.

How about punishing those who break the rules instead of everyone? This is **** insane.

Sorry fellas. Some people were speeding, so you're not allowed to buy cars anymore.

Speeding doesn’t equate to this. We don’t lock society down every now and again for the hell of it.

If someone is that desperate for exercise walk round your living room.

Its a few weeks of inconvenience I can’t believe the attitude of some.

1 hour ago, Tayls said:

I’m confused by the advice of staying in doors...

The wording of it seems to just be geared up for Londoners, rather than thinking nationwide. 

Can we go out an sunbathe in our gardens or not? Can we go for walks which counts towards our exercise? 

It’s simple.

Stay at home unless you need to go out. Your garden is “ at home”.

Accepted needs are one form of exercise a day ( not sunbathing !!)......essential work journeys.....buying necessities, or providing help or care to a vulnerable person.

I must admit in the same way I’m baffled how few people ( including the Leader of the Free World) understand either these rules, or the nature of the virus. 
It’s life threatening, it’s been here ages, we should all be experts by now .!

58 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Has there been an official FFP relaxation? I've not heard that.  Does that give us wiggle room? 

Not yet.

But ffp will be scrapped.