terrytini

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Quite breathtakingly unbelievable, Fauci has it .

Either this really is an incredibly insidious little beast, or we really are in the hands of incompetence.

Or both.

(Edit :  all quarantined, not necessarily infected.)

Redfield aswell. Head of the CDC . This is insane.

Quite breathtakingly unbelievable, Fauci has quarantined. .

Either this really is an incredibly insidious little beast, or we really are in the hands of incompetence.

Or both.

We’ve had panic buying, sheltering, the Queen, now VE Day, all we need is Dame Vera Lynn

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

You cannot get Covid from a VE Day Street Party, get out there and mingle, you commie bastards.

They didn’t sacrifice their lives so miserable lefties can be mildly critical of social gatherings during a pandemic lockdown.

There’s a bloke over the road sat in his front garden. I suppose I could go over and sing with him that “ German Bombers” song the Ingerlund fans love. Then go and find an attractive lady and offer her a “ pair of nylons” and get a kiss. Is that the kind of thing ?

It was Earth Day two weeks ago. It’s Red Cross day today.

I guess those aren’t considered as important.

31 minutes ago, bickster said:

You are the only person I've seen in favour of it that has actually mentioned the F word. Not once in any of the propaganda has it been mentioned

If this was truely a celebration of the defeat of fascism, we'd be celebrating the multicultural society we've become after that defeat not having Union Jacks all over the place.in the most white middle class way possible.

Your idea that this is a celebration of the end of fascism is an utter nonsense

 

Indeed. 
Just one of a variety of thoughts that spring instantly to mind.

Where on earth did the idea come from to do it ? ( Rhetorical as I think I will go back to blissful ignorance)

( it’s odd, I’ve two daughters in the Forces and they’ve not mentioned it, I usually hear all about military things)

40 minutes ago, bickster said:

Yeah because VE Day 2020 really is a celebration of the defeat of fascism isn't it? If it was, I'd have no truck with it.

Having VE day in 1945 made complete sense, having it as "VE Day" in 2020 only serves one agenda and it's got shite all to do with the defeat of fascism.

VE Day 2020 is jingoistic bollocks, serving one agenda and one agenda only

I hadn’t got as far as this Post and the one it replies to when I commented above, but, yes, quite.

Im genuinely staggered it’s an actual thing.

Someone mentioned VE day the other day and I mocked them saying it was 75 years ago. But when I called the chemist earlier they were shut for Bank Holiday, and it said “ VE Day”. Now having seen the comments here it feels like I’ve woken up in a poor Sci Fi film

I had noticed in passing the odd headline online about it but just thought it was referencing the date, not an actual event. 
People are outside ‘ celebrating’ it ? 
 

WTF ?

4 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

Random fact, but you are allowed to kill grey squirrels as long as it’s done in a humane way

Indeed. An even lesser known fact is that it’s ok for grey squirrels to kill humans as long as it’s done in a squirrely way

5 minutes ago, BigJim said:

Don't you think it matters if scientists are being directed by lunatics to mess around with viruses to see if they can make them more virulent/lethal?

I could hardly imagine a practice that it would be more important to eliminate.

Obviously I don't know the truth behind any of the allegations floating around.  However, I have examined a little of what Mikovits has to say on a number of videos. It is clear that she is vastly experienced in the field and did a lot of important work in her day (Cancer/HIV). She claims she was directed to do this sort of experimenting on the ebola virus ffs.

Some people will immediately write her off as "antivacc" because of her claims of widespread contamination but she is not to be confused with the ill-informed lay people who have taken up that position.  I don't exclude the possibility that she has gone off the rails, but neither do I exclude the possibility that what she says about being shut down by nefarious interests is true. 

I’ve no interest in the YouTube or conspiracy stuff, but  have to agree the bit in bold is a matter for concern, as I’m sure everyone would..

And it has been a concern for nearly a thousand years ever since some guys deliberately used virus infected donkeys to attack their enemy. And if we are lucky enough to survive another thousand years it will still be an issue. And there are all manner of pressure groups, political parties and other means of trying to tackle the issue - without giving attention to people who are serving their own self interests - even in the midst of such a deeply traumatic time for so many - on the internet.

55 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

I go by facts. 

Ah phooey you can prove anything with facts.

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Sigh i give up.

 

Who cares. you guys really need to wake up and see what the hell is going on. Bet not one of you even watched it and just dismissed it as 'conspiracy'

 

But yeah carry on burying your head in the sand

 

Oh good.

26 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Also it's VE Day chap, let that spirit of victory into you and worry not about you and your loved ones and people you don't even know drowning in their own fluids because your boss needs you to go back to the office for no reason. Pip pip!

VE Day ? That was 75 years ago ! What next, Agincourt day ?

Thailand. Population 70,000,000. Deaths...55.

Wyre Forest. Population 100,000. Deaths ....64.

I can see why Johnson isn’t keen on making international comparisons.

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

Watched Rhod Gilbert tonight being a (pre Covid) carer. It is all that matters and please forward this carer's poem on exponentionally.  

 

That poem is a wonderful tribute.

You have to be a very particular type of character to work in Care and enjoy it. People that do it establish special relationships with their clients/ residents who are often at their most vulnerable, and often in their twilight days. And they establish those relationships in the full knowledge that, often, they will be short term, and culminate in that person dying. And because they care for tha5 person, and because they are aware how important they are to that person, they grieve every time this happens.

Then, they “ get the room ready”, welcome a new guest/ visit a new home, and do it all again.

They are used to it. I can’t begin to fathom it, and have the utmost admiration and respect for them.

But they aren’t used to this. This is killing our Carers mentally and spiritually, as well as, of course, literally. They are watching helplessly ( yet feeling complicit, and guilty !!) as one by one these people they care for are dying, or getting seriously ill. (And as they and their colleagues are dying and getting ill).

Imagine doing a job like that, for the reasons they do it, and witnessing that.
Its Heartbreaking, scandalous, unforgivable. 
 

And those of us that know people in those jobs are seeing at first hand what it’s doing to them. It will scar them for life.

I don’t  know what point I’m trying to make.

And what about getting 5 minutes off one infected person, and five off another then another ? Does that still equal 15 ?

My brain hurts !

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

The Austrian health agency, AGES, has done some sterling work tracing the transmission chains of more than 3,800 infected people. The article about it is in German, so these extracts suffer from Google Translate, but they're not too bad:

Where the Austrians are infected with the corona virus

'After the AGES epidemiologists were able to demonstrate in early April that more than half of the early cases could be traced back to Ischgl , and the Tyrolean ski areas with Paznaun and Arlberg generally play a special role in the spread of Covid 19 in Austria , the agency has now published further information on the distribution channels. What is striking: In addition to infections in leisure activities and in the own family, many of the traced infections happened in retirement and nursing homes.

By May 5, 3,822 of the over 15,500 sufferers could be assigned to one of 169 clusters . According to the current state of knowledge, there is an easy all-clear for using public transport and visiting shops such as supermarkets. After comparing the infected groups, it was not possible to document a single infection chain that was caused by infection in public transport or in trade, AGES told futurezone.'

This doesn't mean that there is no infection on public transport or in supermarkets - after all, they have only traced a fifth of the cases - but that they seem to have a tiny role at best in spreading the virus, which is probably to do with the proximity the Austrians believe you need to someone infected:

'There was direct contact between people in each of the chains of infection checked . The main transmission path was droplet transmission. Washing hands, but also physical distance from other people remains indispensable to prevent the spread.

As infectious as the virus is, it cannot normally be snapped up when an infected person passes by or by brief contact while shopping. So you have to be exposed to a virus carrier for at least 15 minutes with a short distance of less than one to two meters. It does not matter whether the contact took place for a quarter of an hour in a row or 3 times 5 minutes.'

The two situations that lead to the most transmission, as we would probably all expect at this point, are in old people's homes and at home:

'The situation is different in retirement, old people's and nursing homes. For example, 1,127 cases (29.5 percent) of infections in homes were traced. In addition to the residents, this also includes nursing staff and subsequent cases in their household. Since the infection cannot always be clearly defined, infections are also recorded in clusters with several parameters. In addition to the group mentioned above, there are 199 cases in which leisure activities played a role in addition to the home situation.

Unsurprisingly, many contagions have so far occurred among friends and family. For example, AGES lists 1,075 cases (28.1 percent) under the cluster category "Leisure activity and household". This means that people got infected while skiing and brought the virus into the household. Decided only by leisure activities such as skiing, choir attendance and fitness center, almost ten percent of the cases followed were infected. With 280 people or 7.3 percent, the infection was directly attributable to their own family or friends.'

more on link: https://futurezone.at/science/wo-sich-die-oesterreicher-mit-dem-corona-virus-infizieren/400829822

This gets me thinking: what do skiing, choir and the gym all have in common? And one answer that seems to leap out is 'vigorously expelling air from the lungs'. I have seen this idea elsewhere, and it intuitively makes a lot of sense (which of course doesn't mean it's right, or the whole story). However, if it were right, it would suggest that football matches with fans in attendance would be one of the last things that could be restarted, whereas cinemas - at low capacity and with sufficient distance between customers - might be something that could be restarted earlier.

Very interesting.

“direct contact between people

It’s not the first time I’ve seen this expression but haven’t been able to ascertain exactly what it means. Any ideas ?

I mean, one might expect it to mean actual physical contact, but clearly it doesn’t.

“have to be exposed to a virus carrier for at least 15 minutes”

This is another phrase I’ve seen a few times and struggle with. 

Firstly,  “exposed to” and “ direct contact” are both unclear, and not, one would think, synonymous.

Then there is the shop oddity. On the one hand this and other evidence suggests shops may not be particularly risky....yet it would be very easy to be in the same shop as one or more carriers for longer than 15 minutes.

And...both of the above, and the general tenor of the Article, imply that “lingering” particles pose little risk......yet it’s not clear why this would be.

One of the reasons it’s unclear is because from everything I’ve read so far, there is little explanation behind any findings.

Why should the amount of time ( and to a lesser extent distance) play such a role ? ....my layman’s brain says - presumably - there is a given quantity of infectious material given out by a person in a given period, and that you need to acquire a certain amount in order to be infected......but that begs the question....what happens if you get less than that ? And what’s the difference between collecting that amount from a person coughing ( for example) at you, and that same person coughing tha5 same amount on a surface in a shop that you then touch ?

And so on. There’s a lot more I don’t follow !

1 hour ago, Genie said:

This is the thing, if people want a test they can get one. If less than 100k people turn up then it is what it is. There are so many other things to report on. Especially how this government has failed us, than to beat them with this stick of not reaching the finger in the air number they had a punt at a month ago but it would be reached if people wanted it.

You can’t get a test just because you want one. You have to meet criteria. 
 
 

Which in turn means we still are not doing the mass testing ( followed by tracing) we should be doing.

1 minute ago, LondonLax said:

Most people travelling to the UK will be British citizens listening to the call to return home in a time of global crisis. Even if you restrict immigration to British citizens only for a period I read that almost a million British Citizens/residents returned home. It’s not a case of shutting airports as such but instead finding a practical way for people arriving in the country to be isolated from the rest of the population. 

I agree I take/ mean  “ shutting” airports  as establishing proper control of them.

14 minutes ago, Xela said:

Not shutting the airports was a huge error. Flights coming in from Italy, Spain, China, Iran, and the States daily. 

New Zealand have said they won't have open borders for a long time. That is exactly the right thing to do. No idea why we didn't do similar. 

Not disagreeing at all, but would observe that my wife’s currently away, and I forgot to shut her greenhouse door last night.

I considered that a huge error on my part.

Not shutting the airports ? I think we need a new a dictionary in order to be able to properly convey how enormously badly this has been handled.

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Not necessarily myself. Too right! 

The lady didn't attempt to quantify it, she did quantify it (and as we both agree, very wrongly).  But numbers (to me) when understood and used accurately do tell us a great deal, or will do. It's not "hiding" behind the statistics to want to actually make a genuine effort to understand what they tell us. It's for the professionals an extremely important science. The obvious and relevant example of that is in public health. All sorts of activities, habits and diseases lead to and cause death. Understanding how many people statistically die from [smoking, or boozing, or or parachuting or driving at what speed, or when drunk or ....] leads to public health measures, medical provision, development of treatments, laws to require seat belt wearing...all kinds of positive (and sometimes negative) steps.

If we (hypothetically) discover that the lethality of Covi to people in their last year of life (or as close to knowing that as we can) is very high, then extra steps can be put in place to protect them from it, or to focus drug provision to them, or whatever. If on the other hand, it's equally lethal to all parts and sectors of the population, then prioritisation of limited resources might be focused, if anywhere, at (say) infants, or young children. I don't think many just want to discuss the stats for the sake of it, not even stat geeks. People want to do one of two things - either gain understanding of what they show, or (perhaps like this author) twist them to suit their world view, or their personal experience. or outlook - libertarians might, like climate change deniers wish to "support" a view pro Oil drilling by twisting figures. Other need to understand and have a comprehensive grasp of them in order to prevent the world going down a dangerous path, and to call out the truth twisters. If an element of that, a small part, is broadsheet papers pointing out in their headlines people made ludicrous statement about "2/3rds would have died anyway", or "guzzle harpic", then I'm fine with that.

I’m not, but I find it hard to mount as rational argument to support my view as you’ve done to support yours.

So I’ll have to just stick with “ I’m not”.

5 minutes ago, Xela said:

Not shutting the airports was a huge error. Flights coming in from Italy, Spain, China, Iran, and the States daily. 

New Zealand have said they won't have open borders for a long time. That is exactly the right thing to do. No idea why we didn't do similar. 

Well, call me crazy, but I’m going for that tried and tested mix of money, ideology, and incompetence.

Honestly if we had a National motto.....

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

In a time where the zeitgeist was all about taking back control, I find it difficult to get my head around it.

It’s almost as if it was all bollocks.

2 hours ago, snowychap said:

I continue to be impressed by Lewis Goodall.

As do I, very much so - but my God all he’s needed to do is recognise an open goal to make a name for himself. No competition whatsoever.

Remember when three old people dying in a minibus accident, or one being left alone to die in a hospital corridor,  would’ve got detailed coverage in every news outlet ?

The absence of even the most minimal investigative reporting ( other than by him) into the truly dreadful death and illness in Care Homes is for me Second only to the issue itself in the list of horrors taking place.

I guarantee even the most shocking report about Care Homes ( which, I’m genuinely sickened to say should rightfully now be called Neglect Homes, or even Death Homes) will only be scratching the surface.