Risso

No, I wasn't actually suggesting Martinez, just pointing out that O'Neill isn't the be-all and end-all of football managers. John Gregory did as well at Villa as O'Neill has to date, and he came from the 3rd division. Look at Hodgson, I imagine most Fulham fans weren't bowled over when he was appointed, but he's done really well for them since he arrived. But just to avoid confusion, I'm not suggesting either Hodgson or Gregory for the job either. At the moment, I'd maybe suggest somebody like Bilic, but I'd imagine if the job ever does become available, there will be no shortage of candidates.

I really respect the amont of posts that you have, but I still think that this post is way out. How so? Would you imagine that NRC is happy at the moment? And Luke Young did say he wasn't best pleased to be playing left back last season, so that's indisputable as well.

1. No 2. Are you telling me that there isn't a manager out there who couldn't put a better defence together than Cuellar, Davies and Shorey? Look at Martinez today. First proper day as a Premier League manager, in charge of a shit club like Wigan, who have lost Palacios, Valencia, Heskey, Cattermole and Zaki in recent months, and yet still got his team playing neat, organised football. You might rate him as one of the best 3 managers in England, and you'd be wrong. Oh so very wrong.

I think there are serious signs that the cracks are beginning to show, going back as you say, to Moscow. Firstly, NRC must be absolutely livid that he absolutely cannot buy a game, and a 19 year old untried kid starts in the middle. Then Luke Young was unhappy last year at being played out of position for so long. Shorey spat his dummy, and I don't think Carew and O'Neill see eye to eye anyway. All of these things cn be swept under the carpet when results are going well, but when the poor form continues, I think the resentment starts to bubble over.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not in the habit of either posting opinions just to fit in with the majority, or of holding back on those opinions because somebody doesn't agree with them. So if you have nothing to add to the discussion, why don't you give it a rest instead?

It's never going to happen at all with O'Neill at the helm. Four years in, and Beye, Cuellar, Davies and Shorey is a defence that's going to help us catch the top four? Never in a million years.

Rebuilding?! He hasn't built us at all yet. He loses two of our best players (neither of whom were signed by him) and fails completely and utterly to replace them. Surely there's another manager in the world who could have bought us a decent central midfielder and defender, because O'Neill certainly hasn't.

Well that's true, and is in itself worthy of applause, when 90% of posters on here don't even make an attempt at making their posts readable. I just wish I could agree with a single thing you say from time to time!

We do indeed, but I think from comments from people like Mysteryman, and also from O'Neill's BBC post match interview his sole focus for the remaining two weeks of the window will be getting a defender in. I think he'll bring somebody like Dunne in, and that'll be our lot.

I'd hope he was more amazed/disgusted with most of his players' poor performances, than he was at the paying punters' opinions on those players.

It might not be for you, but for most people voting "go" it certainly would be. Maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back? Or that moment when the clouds parted, and O'Neill's mediocrity shone through. Or on a brighter note, it'll hopefully be the the game that finally shows the manager that he can't go on trying to make do and mend with the central midfield and defence. We need quality in the important positions, and if that means espensive players, then that's what it'll have to be. Hopefully he'll rush out on Monday, buy Van der Vaart, Warnock and Upson, we'll go on a 6 month unbeaten surge up the table, and all will be well in the world!

edit

Two 'fickles' in one post, you've outdone yourself. No run along and have a look what it really means eh?

Well I don't think so. If we started to get wind that O'Neill couldn't bring the players he wanted in due to financial constraints, then you'd maybe have a point. Everything I've heard points to the opposite though, that the funds are in place but O'Neill either can't or won't spend them. There's ample evidence that we'll never get into the top 4 with O'Neill in charge though. Exhibit number one, the defence. Into season number 4, and it's as bad as it's ever been.

No one is questioning the owner? I thought there was a mammoth thread started by your good self doing tht very thing? But anyway as I pointed out in a recent thread, Lerner has increased the amount of money he has put into the club by £120m recently. In the past he has matched this share capital input with loans from his family trust, so I believe he's willing to back the manager on a large scale. Not stupidly as in pay Gareth Barry £100K a week, but if we had a manager able to attract the likes of say Van der Vaart, I think Lerner would find the cash.

So it's OK to question the owner, who has done nothing except back the manager to the hilt, and generally improve things 100% at Villa Park, but it's not OK to question the manager, who is entering his 4th season with a team as badly prepared as we did today, and one of the most inept defences I've seen at Villa Park in years? Very, very strange logic indeed.

The problems with Newcastle were all to do with the owner. Or do you honestly think that if O'Neill left, Lerner would appoint a chump like Kinnear? Anyway, with the defence we have, the comparison with Newcastle isn't that far off. Davies and Shorey must be two of the least able defenders in the Premier League.

Last time this poll ran, the results were 98% (roughly) in favour of O'Neill. I'm just interested to see what the split is now. The majority will still be in favour I reckon, but let's see who, if anybody, have changed their minds. I don't think he's the right man to take us forward. That's not just a knee jerk reaction to today's disgraceful performance, but a considered opinion after months of abject, one dimensional football, and also what I see as his dismal lack of ability in the transfer market. It might be asking a lot, but could we try and keep it civil?

Yes, I'd say calling for the manager to go after one game is an overreaction. I also don't think that is the worst we've played ... but people's expectations keep on rising, so it just feels that way. Some people also have axes to grind and points of view they wish to feel vindicated about. I didn't enjoy today at all, well other than my meal in the Centenary Suite, but perspective is needed. We've never beaten Wigan at Villa Park, they are a bogey team for us. There's no such thing as a bogey team. That infers there's some greater force at work, when the truth is that a manager in his first Premier League game outthought O'Neill completely.

That was a worrying performance on so many levels. People were kidding themselves after a couple of decent perfomances in a pre-season tournament that poor players like Davies had magically transformed overnight, and we'd again be pressing for the top 4. Well unless O'Neill manages to bring in 3 top class players before the end of August, we've absolutely no chance. Ratings from the game: Friedel - let's be honest, his best days are behind him, and he rarely rpoduces his Blackburn form at Villa Shorey - terrible, terrible player. Lightweight and error prone, just poor Davies - Rapidly looking the worst central defender I've seen at Villa. Makes Bramble look like Baresi. Cuellar - Better than Davies, but really, that's to damn with faint praise. Not good enough either. Beye - didn't really notice any huge errors, but nothing to get excited about either Milner - one of the few to come out with any credit, ran his knackers off, and is much more of a team player than Young. Petrov - a poor game, but didn't look fit to me Delph - looked exactly what he was, a 19 year old making his first ever top flight start. Ridiculous decision to start with him Young - needs to be told he doesn't have to dribble around 4 defenders every time he gets the ball. Frustrating Heskey - usual game, played quite well, but never looked a threat. Unless we sign a world class goal poacher or attacking midfielder, he's a luxury we can't afford. Agbonlahor - carried on last season's poor form

It could have been 3-0? Sorry, all I can think of at the moment.

Oh well blow me down, Cuellar and Davies ARE hopeless, Delph isn't a replacement for Barry, the Peace Cup was just a pre-season jolly, and O'Neill hasn't got a clue what he's doing. Just as I've said all along.

No Carew...O'Neill you better pray that works, because it looks like a ridiculous decision to me.

If we get to the end of August with no more transfers in, it'll be pretty depressing. Until then, I live in hope that O'Neill will finally bring in the quality central defender and midfielder that we urgently need.

Why is it "promulgating panic" to state that if we don't strengthen the squad, and injuries hit, that clubs may overtake us? The poster is quite correct that if we don't buy any more players, we could struggle, especially as the centre of defence is so under strength. I fully expect O'Neill to bring more defenders in, but it's not doommongering to say that if he doesn't, we could struggle.