TRO

ditto

This defence thing is a myth.we just get bodies behind the ball, sit deep,deny ourselves offensive options and then pat ourselves on the back for having the best defensive record in the PL and then go in to important games and concede with the ease of a knife through butter. Jekyl and Hyde thats us.

you are not and do not talk bollox The Midfield set up ain't right who picks up Lampard, who picks up Gerrard, who picks up Rooney or even attempts to..... you just cannot let these players free its suicide.

I think there is a tendency of contradiction From Martin O'Neill he seems to say one thing and do another. We seem to bark on like a record player about how good the kids are, but they never get a proper run out..... now they are either good enough or they are not, Gabby seems to be the last real find, what 3/4 seasons ago.... so is this academy a myth? I think a large dose of over hype comes out of B6 at times, just to feed the self gratification that is desperately in evidence.

what did he say? "We were well beaten by a fine side. We were masters of our downfall. We stopped competing at 3-1 and that's unforgivable. We are devastated and we have to fight back from this." He refused to blame tiredness as every team has a hard season - you can tell this result hurts him. But he thinks we have it in the squad to bounce back. Do you expect him to say we havn't got it in us to bounce back.... employees of the club have to sell seats....of course he will say that, they all do. I just feel right now, that I'm poking money in his pocket while he's pissing on my boots.

"Lessons" can be a cop out unless you learn from them. judging by last seasons " lessons" ......we havn't.

This isn't a case of the boo boys being in the ascendency, this is a case of some fans can see the quality of play is not what some believe it to be and some seem to be in denial.

can't say I'm surprised, because I'm NOT except for the magnitude for the defeat.... never thought Aston Villa under Martin O'Neill could concede 7 No, my mind was made up months ago when we were winning that this team without numbers can't defend. This is not a time for turning on the Manager, this really is a time for the Manager to quit this immature stubborness and get back to analysising the play and correcting it. I did'nt watch the game today, but I'm told that by half time we were a good match for them and possibly the better team despite being 2-1 down. without seeing the game I would be interested in who was responsible for picking up Lampard....it just strikes me the Lampards, The gerrards, The Rooneys just don't get picked up. echoing the words of my old schoolmaster who coached our team and when I commented to him how good the opposition is that day before the game, the immortal words were mooted...."they're all good if you let 'em be" simplictic -yes... but spot on IMO

Barry....you've started it. you lesser fan you. there will be many that feel the way you do....me for one. I've given mine up for a better fan too.

....I too have given mine away.... to someone who may enjoy it more than me.

No not in the second half. Apart from one run which he created himself to get one on one and then err miss, he still spent the majority of the second half giving them the ball straight back! It's a bit harsh to say it was a miss, more a great save from the keeper i recon. He did get the ball up and over but the keeper got a hand up to it. If it had of been sidwell, it would have been a miss....for sure.

...that was the Carew we all know he is capable of. that was the carew that the Argentinian national coach said on one occasion was unplayable. he can be quality, but also an enigma. some of the deft touches was absolute class.

It is without doubt, vidic should have benn sent off, but he wasn't...... so its the next 85 minutes i was more concerned with.

just got back too many individual errors on the day, some good individual performances some poor. for a team who have managed to beat Liverpool and Man utd away this year, I thought there was a lack of mental strength in the team. It was better than the Chelsea final, but at times not much better. very disappointed, because I believe this team was capable of winning as opposed to sides in the past being inferior. not impressed.

just got back too many individual errors on the day, some good individual performances some poor. for a team who have managed to beat Liverpool and Man utd away this year, I thought there was a lack of mental strength in the team. It was better than the Chelsea final, but at times not much better. very disappointed, because I believe this team was capable of winning as opposed to sides in the past being inferior. not impressed.

sorry, its easy to get sucked in.

I'm not sure which way you mean this but I make a decision on the games I see not what others think. well I've seen some of the favoured players have some poor games recently too, but there is a slow reaction to say so. Sidwell has been playing poorly, but he hasn't always.... thats my view. Milner has been playing well, but he hasn't always, thats my view too. just depends which bit you want to comment on.

Sidwell has been poor for about 3 years now. He has had runs in the team as well, when is this confidence coming back? I just happen to diasgree He has been poor recently, but when he had a run during the middle of last season he wasn't poor in fact in most games he played we had positive results. There again he is not an easy player to defend, because he is not a pretty player.... I think he gives us presence and he marshalls the play well. His offensive work has admittedly been disappointing, but that doesn't mean to say all of his work has been poor....There are times when we have been on the back foot his presence has been welcome to tighten things up. I just happen to think, he not as bad as some might try to have you believe. I would be interested to see/hear what some of the fans would have thought of Eamonn Deacy had they been around to see him. I appreciated him for what he was,but he wasn't a Gordon Cowans, but we didn't try to compare him to one.

Same. Needs to learn to tackle, but listening to interviews he knows that! I don't really go in for the 'holding' midfield thing. It's all been invented from Makelele for Real. He had to play that role because Figo, Zidane and Raul and co were never going to track back. Arrigo Sacchi's book is very interesting on this - he talks about how that is reactionary; you need to do it in certain situations, but pigeonholing someone in like that to cover for others doesn't necessarily achieve the supreme goal of tactics - to make EVERY player play above his natural level. I don't go as far as Sacchi - 'Which player in a football team is the playmaker? Whoever has the ball' - but all the best 4-4-2 teams I've ever seen have had two central midfielders who both got forward and back; Keane and Scholes (Scholes can't tackle but he never used to stop working, and people who think Keane was defensive don't understand football); Vieira and Petit etc. The important thing is to find midfielders who can do that. I think Delph will develop into one. That is an interesting post. I have always been of the view no one player can do everything, even George Best would have struggled at defending....its about blend, just like an orchestra.

The central midfield role is all about control. who ever the player is.....Headless chickens are not required in the centre... they will lose you games. I am not suggesting Fabian Delph is the above but he has a lot to learn in the respect of controlling things. He is way behind Stillyan petrov and Reo coker in that respect.... and a confidence restored Sidwell too. He hasn't their experience yet. Whether he goes on to be top notch I don't know, there are some good signs, but he has a good way to go.

looks to me like he's lost the appetite. Don't want to see him go when he's at it.... but in this mood he might just as well. I think he will go of his own volition.

Siberia for you....get your bags packed. That's certainly not vinegar you have dispatched on those chips. ....but your right, as far as I'm concerned. I too would like to see the fonz given a run with Gabby. although i felt for Carew with the ref today he just gets blamed for being big and powerful.

The disappointment for me is how the likes of Heskey can carry on with poor performances and a "sick note" injury record and other players get hit much easier for what appears far less.

You don't seem to like giving Petrov any praise? The man was a real leader and battler today as he cannot be fully fit. Not just the goal but his all round performance. The goal did typify a captain's goal though. His header was brilliant. However his overall performance? Like Milner, Delph, they got out-battled and rarely got on the ball or got control of the match. He was non existant for most of the match like pretty much our whole midfield. That midfield cost £48 mill( including the wingers) so i was expecting a little better, but hey we are still in and oh by the way battling is not a valued commodity , so some tell me on here.

good post and one I echo