bickster Posted August 13, 2006 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2006 Can anyone please remind me of any consortuim taking over a club that was successful ?? Whilst I agree with your general point, erm ENIC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardCanning Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Must admit IMO the way consortiums are able to spread losses across their members would suggest to me that given Villa's rich position in terms of assets they are prime for a takeover by a consortium! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Can anyone please remind me of any consortuim taking over a club that was successful ?? Whilst I agree with your general point, erm ENIC? nope not a consortuim as such but backed by that guy who used to help fund Rangers .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 history pof Enic ENIC The Business ENIC owner, Joe Lewis is believed to have paid £1.4m in 2001 to play a round of golf with world number one Tiger Woods. Lewis is believed to be close to Dermot Desmond, the Irish financier who is the largest single shareholder in Celtic. He is also understood to be associated with John Magnier and JP McManus, the Irish billionaires who doubled their stake in Manchester United to just under 7 per cent in 2001 and then in 2003 took this to more than 10 per cent. Between themselves, these four men have significant interest in four of the biggest brands in British football. ENIC control 29.9% of shares in Spurs, 43% of AEK Athens, 11.8% of FC Basel, 20.2% of Glasgow Rangers, 96.7% of Slavia Prague and 99.9% of Vicenza. In 2003, it became clear that the difficult financial climate affecting the football industry was going to have a considerable effect on ENIC and its shareholders. A new company called Kondar Ltd was formed by ENIC's majority shareholders to take the company off the stock market. A cash offer of £40 million made by Joe Lewis and Spurs chairman Daniel Levy will take ENIC back into private hands. Lewis and Levy control 52% of shares in the investment company. Because ENIC has cash in the bank of around £25 million, the £40 million offer values all its football investments plus its betting and retail interests at just £15 million. This illustrates the extent to which the inflationary bubble around the football industry has burst. In 2000, ENIC spent £22 million just on its investment in Spurs. The collapse of the transfer market and the expected drop in TV revenue are the main reasons for falling values in the football industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 13, 2006 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yep Ian reead that, you obviously didn't - A new company called Kondar Ltd was formed by ENIC's majority shareholders to take the company off the stock market. Lewis and Levy control 52% of shares in the investment company conclusion - consortium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 remember between then them Ellis and Petchey own 53% of Villa and not a consortuim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 13, 2006 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2006 remember between then them Ellis and Petchey own 53% of Villa and not a consortuim. Wassat got to do with the price of fish ENIC only owns approx 30% of Spurs but, ENIC is essentially an investment company with individual shareholders within ENIC. Ellis & Petchey have never formally and legally been together as shareholders of a separate investment company that in turn effectively controls AVFCPLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 If Enic are owned by two blokes of which one is a multi billionnairre and the other one a front man more than anything that is not classed as a consortuim and because Sugar is a benign shareholder they have effective control .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 13, 2006 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2006 Two people own 52% of ENIC, the other 48% is owned by other smaller shareholders - Ian its a consortium whether you agree or not Sugar is irrelevant as he owns shares in Spurs not ENIC And as I said I agree with your substantive point - much prefer a single owner despite Ellis - the positives outweight the negatives imo as long as its the RIGHT single owner in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 so you are ruling out Lerner then Pete ? and then we will see then ... What makes you so sure lerner isnt fronting a consortium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsby Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 so you are ruling out Lerner then Pete ? and then we will see then ... What makes you so sure lerner isnt fronting a consortium? What leads you to think he is? :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfcinwales Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 so you are ruling out Lerner then Pete ? and then we will see then ... What makes you so sure lerner isnt fronting a consortium? Dare I say what makes you think he is, where's the proof ? I thought not. One thing has been consistent throughout the Lerner workout, he's said little publicly and if you read what he has said most of it is negative about the takeover, but positive its him on his own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Evening all, I've just enjoyed a roast dinner and a quality bottle of Rioja so forgive me if I sound smug. In my opininion there is only one possible satisfactory outcome to this takeover and it will happen soon, Lerner will take charge with a bid this week. I don't want a consortium of investors arguing for years to come over whose turn it is to anti up the cash, I want the chairman of one of the most successful financial institutions of recent years (MBNA) to say to O'Neill on a twice yearly basis, what funds do you need to bring the best available players who are prepared to come to Villa, in order to move the club forward. This is what ENIC have been doing for Spurs for the last three years, and this can only be done by an owner with the ability to use the banks' money at the best rates to secure a dramatic increase in the future revenue of AVFC. Remember Lerner will buy Aston Villa lock stock and barrel, and he will be putting his reputation on the line. He is not used to failure, nor will he fail this time. Now, I've got a bottle of Cote du Rousillon at room temperature so forgive me if I am slow to reply to those of you who I am sure know far better than me. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 VB, don't think u r far wrong ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardCanning Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I pray VB isn't far wrong, in terms of thinking about this takeover, I've come to the conclusion I have been think too much about it and now don't know nor want to think about it anymore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Dare I say what makes you think he is, where's the proof ? I thought not. One thing has been consistent throughout the Lerner workout, he's said little publicly and if you read what he has said most of it is negative about the takeover, but positive its him on his own A number of things Firstly, when he was recently linked to Everton, it was said that the Fortress group were funding his bid, I provided a link to the Fortress group the other day, they are a company that specialises in funding undervalued companies. Secondly, recently one of his people said, admittedly off the record (one of those "sources close to things"), that the "consortium doesn't like doing business in the public eye" lastly, and perhaps most convincingly of all. he is worth what? £700m? And he plans to put up £64m to buy, and £180m on players? £224m of his total £700m? Is he bonkers? he must be, because he would have to gon ploughing tens of millions in every year for four or five years before he even began to get a significant return, and its a very high risk business football, with most people making the attempt ending up badly out of pocket. You dont get to his position in life by taking thsoe kind of risks, you spread the risk out by bringing in partners. Even if he is the total 100% decision making head of the consortium, he is using someone else's money, or the amount of money we are talking about is siginifcantly less than the rumours would have you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 And all I can manage is Sainsburys value vodka and cheapo red bull imitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Dare I say what makes you think he is, where's the proof ? I thought not. One thing has been consistent throughout the Lerner workout, he's said little publicly and if you read what he has said most of it is negative about the takeover, but positive its him on his own A number of things Firstly, when he was recently linked to Everton, it was said that the Fortress group were funding his bid, I provided a link to the Fortress group the other day, they are a company that specialises in funding undervalued companies. Secondly, recently one of his people said, admittedly off the record (one of those "sources close to things"), that the "consortium doesn't like doing business in the public eye" lastly, and perhaps most convincingly of all. he is worth what? £700m? And he plans to put up £64m to buy, and £180m on players? £224m of his total £700m? Is he bonkers? he must be, because he would have to gon ploughing tens of millions in every year for four or five years before he even began to get a significant return, and its a very high risk business football, with most people making the attempt ending up badly out of pocket. You dont get to his position in life by taking thsoe kind of risks, you spread the risk out by bringing in partners. Even if he is the total 100% decision making head of the consortium, he is using someone else's money, or the amount of money we are talking about is siginifcantly less than the rumours would have you believe. None of thaat I dispute Pete and certainly he could be doing it like Glazier but in a smaller way but the risks are limited. the facts are his record proves he funds teams and allayed to his undoubted buisness skill that is exaclty what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Bob Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 PB I think you are right. There might very well be some silent partners in there with Lerner. But I think the numbers you give don't fit. I would assume he (or they) bought AV PLC with money borrowed against some of his (their) assets. If Lerner owns shares worth £700M, even a 5% return of investment means he has £35M to throw around each year. That should be more than enough to cover the downpayments on a £65M loan. He could then grant the rights to market the AV brand in USA to one of his companies. By the way, the US market is much better than the Asian ones as some PL clubs have targeted earlier, since americans can afford buying official merchandise, while the Asians would prefer copies costing only 10% of the price for official products. Anyway, he will make money in the US from the AV brand. I then assume AV PLC would borrow against it's assets to fund transfers. And I don't really see a problem in that either, because Lerner has enough money to clear our debt if needed. I do not expect him to put his own money into the club unless that is absolutly necessary. If there is silent partners in there with him, I'm sure that they too will use the club to make money in one way or the other. But I assume they too would require a rather successfull team over here for them to make money over there. So the last thing they would do would be to reduce the club's ability to compete, by taking money directly out of the club. If Lerner, alone or with partners, buy the club, it will be an investment done for financial reasons. But it will require a successfull Aston Villa for him (them) to make money. So we have mutual interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downbutnotout Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 The Sunday Mercury are claiming Lerner will complete a deal this week and an offer could be tabled as early as tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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