WhatAboutTheFinish

1 hour ago, Xann said:

His investments will take a hammering cos he's banked on the UK economy tanking after Brexit.

Good job we can trust the major players on the other side of the argument to never do something like that.

4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Dear oh dear. So a bunch of politicians asked him to consider running for office, but he didn't, and then took a job across the Atlantic. Doesn't make him a 'second tier Canadian politician', and seems to provide clear evidence that 'I don't think he's greatly respected' is sour grapes as well. I assume all of these people weren't hoping for him to become their party leader because they didn't respect him. 

Maybe, maybe not. But that’s a different argument to saying JRM doesn’t understand positions in the Canadian political system or that he gets all his information from Wikipedia.

If I did want the inside track on some gossip on the Governor of the Bank of England and I had the choice of talking with a guy who runs a multi billion pound hedge fund in the city or a random from Twitter, I know who I’d choose. 

2 hours ago, ml1dch said:

Yup, it all seems to be there.

Quote

Mark Carney was cast as the perfect alternative to Justin Trudeau by a tight network of Liberals who pulled out all the stops last summer to attract the Bank of Canada governor into the Liberal leadership race.

Mr. Carney was responsive to the efforts, and his actions over the summer – taking phone calls, asking questions about the race, staying over at a senior Liberal MP's house during a week-long family holiday in Nova Scotia – fueled speculation about his candidacy.

By September, Liberal officials were trying to put together a team of organizers and supporters, and mapping out Mr. Carney's road to victory at next year's Liberal convention.

Now, as Canadians digest the fact their central banker has been lured to London to become Governor of the Bank of England, The Globe and Mail has pieced together details of an alternative courtship of Mr. Carney by the Liberals. Dozens of interviews over the past few weeks provide clearer evidence of the effort to convince the man who's been called the "outstanding central banker of his generation" that he had a shot at winning the Prime Minister's Office.

Speaking to The Globe this week, Mr. Carney refused to go into details about the conversations, or explain why he didn't immediately shut down the campaign as a non-partisan public servant working under a Conservative government.

He insisted, however, that he never actively sought the job or reached out to Liberals.

"I never made an outgoing phone call," Mr. Carney said. "I never encouraged anybody to do anything."

Mr. Carney tried to put an end to the speculation about a Liberal bid through Bank of Canada officials in late September. Then, in October, he went public in a more overt effort to kill the story, heaping scorn during a news conference on media questions about him entering politics.

"Why don't I become a circus clown?" he told reporters in Nanaimo, B.C., on Oct. 15. "I have gainful employment and I intend to continue it."

Six weeks later, however, Mr. Carney again gathered in front of journalists to reveal he was indeed switching jobs – but heading to London instead of the House of Commons' opposition benches.

For Liberals seeking a socially progressive, fiscally conservative candidate to replace interim leader Bob Rae, though, Mr. Carney was an obvious choice.

The central banker's pedigree and background closely matched the search criteria of more conservative-minded Liberal Party members – sometimes referred to as "Blue Liberals" – who had supported Paul Martin and had doubts about Mr. Trudeau's ability to lead the party back to power.

One of Mr. Carney's most prominent Liberal admirers was former New Brunswick premier Frank McKenna, now a Toronto banker who remains a political and business power broker in Canada. "Frank was a booster," said one of the former premier's circle of Liberal contacts.

However, the Liberal said, Mr. McKenna was not as involved in laying the groundwork for a Carney candidacy as Tim Murphy, a Toronto lawyer and former chief of staff for Prime Minister Paul Martin. The Liberal organizer said he was less confident about recruiting Mr. Carney this summer, putting the odds at the time at 25 per cent. "I was not as optimistic as Tim," the Liberal said.

Still, the Liberal said the sense in party circles is that Mr. Carney has "Liberal DNA" and is ambitious enough to envision himself as being prime minister one day.

The Northwest Territories-born banker is bilingual, with unimpeachable economic bona fides and evidence of a social conscience that would appeal to Liberals. Many of the ties that exist to this day between Liberals and Mr. Carney date back to his time as a senior bureaucrat under the Martin government, including personal friendships that played a part in the courtship from Liberals last summer.

Speaking to The Globe, Mr. Carney said he had been previously approached by people from across the political spectrum about entering politics, and would not confirm any Liberal leanings.

"Certain people want things to happen … the political world, it seems to me, is a world for optimists. I'm in a world that's a world for realists."

He declined to divulge what he told Liberals who contacted him last summer. "This isn't True Confessions," he said.

In fact, much of the organizational work on behalf of Mr. Carney was kept quiet, with some Liberal sources saying they were sworn to secrecy. Still, the effort was concerted. Liberal sources said Mr. Murphy made a number of phone calls over the summer to "get organizers and support around the country" for Mr. Carney.

"I got a call in the summer from Tim Murphy, who was at one point very convinced that he was going to run," said a veteran Liberal organizer with a winning track record in the party.

A Liberal MP was also contacted by Mr. Murphy and urged to avoid offering his support to Mr. Trudeau before Mr. Carney made a final decision. "Timmy really didn't say much other than to keep my powder dry. He was purposefully evasive with any details around any conversations that would have taken place."

Liberal MP and former bank economist John McCallum spoke to the governor in mid-August. After addressing a controversy over the bank's decision to remove a scientist of Asian origin from the original design of its $100 bill, Mr. McCallum said he raised the issue of the Liberal leadership with Mr. Carney.

"I chatted with him a little bit about it," Mr. McCallum said. "He didn't say yes and he didn't say no."

Other Liberal organizers said Mr. Carney responded to inquiries by seeking clarification about the job, but also about what it would take to beat Mr. Trudeau at the convention next April. "He asked questions," said a well-known party organizer who was tasked by Liberals with finding answers for Mr. Carney.

The pro-Carney Liberals discussed a strategy that would entail signing up a set number of members in every riding in the country, as the leadership rules give equal weighting to all 308 ridings. The sense was that Mr. Trudeau would have more support on the first ballot, but that Mr. Carney might be able to win more second-place support than Mr. Trudeau from the other leadership camps.

Liberals sensed that Mr. Carney was one of theirs, and that he could be sold to the party membership.

As governor, Mr. Carney startled more than a few central bank watchers in 2011 by sympathizing with the frustrations of the Occupy Wall Street movement. That same year, he told Reader's Digest that he found Bay Street culture too materialistic for his liking.

Mr. Carney's father, Bob Carney, ran as a Liberal Party candidate for Edmonton-South in the 1980 election.

Mr. Carney spent a part of the summer in the company of his Liberal boosters, expanding on the traditional duties of a Governor of the Bank of Canada with a surprising speech to the Canadian Auto Workers and a human-interest interview with a Nova Scotia Web publication that focuses on political and business news. The moves gave the impression that he was trying to gauge his ability to connect to a new audience.

The central banker and his family stayed for close to a week at Liberal finance critic Scott Brison's Nova Scotia seaside home last summer, a visit that took place as members of the opposition party mounted the effort to recruit him.

Mr. Brison and his spouse own a house in the small community of Cheverie on the west coast of Nova Scotia. The modest two-storey house has a commanding view of Minas Basin, an inlet of the Bay of Fundy known for very high tides.

Mr. Carney, his wife and family stayed at Mr. Brison's following a keynote speech the central banker delivered to a Nova Scotia gathering of East Coast business elites. It is an annual invitation-only event organized by Mr. McKenna at the luxury Fox Harb'r golf resort and spa.

Mr. Brison, one of the party members who's been identified as expressing interest in seeing Mr. Carney helm the Liberal Party, declined to speak about hosting the central banker and his family – or what was discussed during the stayover. "Cheverie is our home and private space, not something I really discuss," he wrote in an e-mailed response.

Mr. Carney declined to discuss his family's stay with Mr. Brison, a politician he's known since the central banker was a senior bureaucrat in the Finance Department and the Liberal was public works minister. "I'm not talking about my personal life when I'm on a private vacation; full stop. So I'm not going to entertain your question."

While he was on his Nova Scotia holiday, however, the central banker found the time to sit down for an interview with longtime Brison aide and writer Dale Palmeter. The Q&A posted on allNovaScotia.com included a discussion about how Mr. Carney relieves stress by running at least five times a week, playing tennis with his wife and cross-country skiing.

The central banker went on to discuss the benefits of moderation in eating, saying he'd much rather give his children a small serving of full-fat yogurt than a larger serving of diet yogurt. He told Mr. Palmeter he thinks Reader's Digest named him the "most trusted Canadian" in 2011 because "I call a spade a spade."

In the interview, Mr. Carney said that his biggest concern in Canada was "income inequality," a theme that Mr. Brison raised with Mr. Carney during parliamentary hearings at the finance committee of the House this year.

The Bank of Canada refused to answer any questions about the Carney family's stayover at the Liberal finance critic's Nova Scotia home.

The bank's conflict of interest policy, however, says employees must avoid "the appearance of impropriety" as well "avoiding actual impropriety." It advises central bank staff to ask themselves "does it feel right" when deciding whether to accept hospitality or gifts or other benefits – and to consider: "Is there an alternative action that would not pose an ethical conflict?"

By deciding to leave for England next year, Mr. Carney becomes the first Bank of Canada governor to bow out of the job early since 1961, when James Coyne quit over disagreements with Progressive Conservative prime minister John Diefenbaker. The move to Britain was particularly surprising because Mr. Carney had publicly denied that he had any intention of leading the Bank of England. "I have my job … and I absolutely intend to fulfill that role," Mr. Carney told CTV in August.

While Mr. Carney is quitting Canada for the Bank of England, a decision he called a "hard choice," there is nothing to suggest he's ruled out a political career in Canada down the road.

His term at the British central bank is five years, meaning that unless things change the Carney family will be back in Canada in 2018. Depending on the Liberal fortunes in the next federal election, expected by 2015, Mr. Carney could be in an even better position to contemplate a leadership bid.

One of the concerns among Liberals about Mr. Carney's potential candidacy last summer was whether he could successfully jump into the world of politics from his non-partisan position at the Bank of Canada.

He would have had to leave his job before the end of his term, which would have irked those who wanted him to continue his stewardship of Canada's financial system. But he would have also had to answer questions about his working relationship with the Conservative government at the same time as he had prepared his bid for the Liberal leadership.

Sources say Mr. Carney started to express similar doubt during the summer about the Liberal option, telling some that it would not be appropriate to go straight from the governorship into politics.

Another worry for Liberals was Mr. Carney's lack of political experience. There is a history in Canada of smart and talented candidates who fail to get support at the ballot box. The last full-time Liberal leaders, Stéphane Dion and Michael Ignatieff, bombed despite impressive intellectual qualifications.

Over the summer, Mr. Carney voiced concern about the toll that politics takes. He told one colleague he was not willing to take on the brutal life of politics, at least not with a young family. But he was determined on one count – to continue a career in public service.

Mr. Murphy and Mr. McKenna, for their part, refused to answer questions about their efforts in favour of Mr. Carney's candidacy.

Mr. Carney said that any talk of him being courted by Liberal officials needs to be taken "with a grain of salt."

"People approached me as they approach others about these issues," he said. "People approach you and say, 'Shouldn't you do X?' or 'Would you do X or would you do Y?' and the question is whether you do it," he said.

"I didn't do it."

Not all it seems.

Although of course the whole event never happened and he wasn’t interested anyway because he never “made an outgoing telephone call” on the subject.

Also interesting to note that a simple google of ‘Mark Carney and Canadian politics’ would indicate that somebody has been exercising their European right for stories to be forgotten. Wonder who? 

5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

 

MP for Wikipedia North makes reference to story that doesn’t appear on Wikipedia. Great analysis

9 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

 

Wonder what Mr Hayes does for a living? 

21 minutes ago, villakram said:

I'd love to know what happened further back because they were coming into a low speed corner and she had scrubbed nothing through braking. Hopefully, there's a parts failure or else someone's career should be in question.

I've seen a couple of other angles and she clips another car, spins and then hits the kerb travelling backwards. I don't know much about aerodynamics but I guess cars designed to produce great downforce going forward produce the opposite effect in reverse?

Meanwhile in Berlin, Macron calls for; closer ties, taxation to be set by EU, budgets to be set by EU and an EU army.

Looks like he’s joined the Leave campaign early just in case there is a second referendum! 

2 hours ago, GENTLEMAN said:

Furthermore, Derby didn’t probe his weaknesses

38 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

 

I distinctly remember a different version of those words being parroted by various members of the Government over the last couple of years.

 

A deal is better than no deal but this deal isn’t better than the current deal. 

Barnier's negotiating team seem happy with the outcome.

27 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I just want to know what my circumstances will be post March 2019 but the government don't give a single shit.

And we know the reason why...

Quote

I have zero money in pounds right now. It feels pretty good.

6 hours ago, peterms said:

So, resignations. 

Leaving aside the clownish McVey, who may or may not go (and who would notice anyway), will there be any?

Surely Fox can’t go down on this ship? The whole cabinet must know the game is up now. I think those with aspirations (like Javid) may hold on for now though in case they are in advertantly forced to take over this clusterf now.

Quote

 

Mr Maugham, founder of the Good Law Project, has set up a crowdfunding page to help fund the petitioners’ case, with more than £160,000 raised so far.

So barrister sets up crowdfunding page to pay his own fees? 

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Which one is Joe Johnson? Is he the one that had a minor hit with 'it's different for girls'?

Well at least he has proven record of success.

5 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Did you catch the end with what he said in the toilet? Bonkers.

I may be giving him too much credit but even that seemed to me like it was deliberate on his part.

The guy seems super calculating so if he was caught with a hot mic in the first interview, would he do the same in the second? 

10 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It's equivalised household income decile after housing costs.

Yeah those, the old equivalised household income deciles...after housing costs of course. 

22 hours ago, Davkaus said:

**** knows how to solve all of it, I'm not an economist. (Here's where the usual response is to not complain if you don't have a solution, before  it's  pointed out that it's a silly argument).

Besides, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say I didn't want to look at the top 10% for the purpose of solutions, what I said was I think the state of the worst off is more indicative of an unequal society than just looking at the top.

You, on the other hand, seem to have made an argument that inequality might not be so much of an issue, on the grounds that the top 10% of households only have a disposable income  of 90k. How much spare cash do you think the 10th percentile needs to have before conceding there might be a problem?

Well now we’re both putting words in each other’s mouths, I’m not saying that there isn’t an issue at the bottom end. 

Admittedly I had misread that the stats quoted previously and hadn’t seen that housing costs had been removed so I was surprised that the average earnings for the top 10% was so low. When we’re talking household incomes at around 90k then we’re talking households that include teachers, doctors, nurses, council workers, middle management...not people that you would consider mega rich. But like I say, I misread the stats so my point has largely been made redundant. 

Having said that, any tax cut is obviously going to favour those earning an income that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are a bad thing. For what it’s worth, I don’t think that anybody earning minimum wage (or less than the living wage even) should be paying any income tax at all. Although I guess that makes me an ideological tax cutting right wing fanatic? 

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

To go back to @WhatAboutTheFinish's point about inequality in general..Personally, i'm more interested in looking at the bottom than the top when we talk about inequality.

It's little comfort to someone that works a full time job at minimum wage that the top 10% "only" have a household income of 6 times their income (after tax, by the way...).

When homelessness is on the rise, food bank use is on the rise, salaries continue to stagnate while living costs rise, and even some people in solid careers like nursing and teaching are reliant on charity to survive and in some parts of the country can barely imagine renting their own place, never mind buying it, the top 10% only having a disposable household  income of 90k doesn't nullify their concerns.

So you’ve identified and listed the concerns. Without looking to the top 10% which you’ve said you don’t want to do, what are the solutions? 

On 29/10/2018 at 23:06, peterms said:

 

If those numbers are correct, and I’ve no reason to believe they are not, it means the top 10% are only earning £90 something k a year on average. That seems surprisingly low to me and perhaps indicates that income isn’t as disproportionately distributed in this country as is sometimes made out.

Just finished The Jinx. What a wild old story! 

4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Since we were recently discussing Andrew Marr on another thread, here he is, from this very morning, 4th November 2018, still unaware of the difference between 'climate' and 'weather' or (being charitable) joking about it like a shit Jeremy Clarkson:

 

I also wonder what the out...

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Indeed. Although, strangely, she looks terrible in that pic above. 

Mooney sees:

I see:

59 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

You seem to have forgotten to answer the only question I asked though.

I didn’t answer the question... only because I wasn’t sure if people were genuinely suggesting that an uneducated person’s vote should count less than those that are or whether this thread is just an opportunity to sneer at the uneducated?

12 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

It's certainly arguable.

It's pretty inarguable that we wouldn't be embarking on the subject of this thread though, isn't it?

Is it arguable? Which was the year Labour would have won election without the working class vote?