Graham t

A good post with some excellent points. I have mentioned earlier that my anology was clumsy.

But.

You simply can't ignore the law just because you don't think it is appropriate. If you do then you will have anarchy, and then what?

Regards,

VLD.

12 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
 

Well that was complicated. It even included a word I have never heard of (canonical ).... My anology may have been a bit clumsy but, as I have stressed, my point was you simply can't decide when and where to adhere to the law to suit your own particular feelings on any given day.

Thanks for the link, 

Regards,

VLD.

6 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

If we are going down the Godwin route, what are your thoughts on the German citizens who chose to defy Germany’s laws under Hitlers rule forbidding the offering of help or protection to Jewish people in hiding?

Sorry 'London' I have never heard of the guy. Please educate me, I don't know everything,( I just think I do ).

VLD.

47 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

You really are just trolling us. You compare movements that freed many. That made fellow humans equal to others who just happened to be a different colour or sex. You are comparing those to Genocidal maniacs. You are beyond comprehension.  

They are all people who thought the law was irrelevant. This is not trolling just because your argument is full of holes....

Regards,

VLD.

3 minutes ago, Graham t said:

You didn't mention Hitler........

VLD.

Or Stalin

or Pol Pot

'I shouldn't need to explain this any further.......

VLD.

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

If people always obeyed the law, change would rarely if ever happen. Pretty much every societal change in modern times that has advanced one oppressed grouping or another's right not to be oppressed has been brought about because people broke the law.

The suffragettes broke the law

The anti-apartheit movement broke the law

I shouldn't need to go on to explain this any further

 

You didn't mention Hitler........

VLD.

31 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

As you quoted me and used the word you. 
 

Pop up the top and pop Statue and me as the author. I was against the statues coming down when BLM protestors were bringing them down. I think the replacement is a fairly good thing to do. 
 

BLM removed or wanted the removal of statues because of links to slavery. If Jen Reid’s statue is removed, its because of racism and not that due process was followed. 

Incorrect, the council did not give permission for the statue of Jen to be erected. It will be removed for this reason only. It isn't racist to obey the law.

If people want a statue removed they should start a online petition and approach the relevant council indicating the support that has been shown by the petition.

Surely this is the way to behave in a civilised society.....

Regards,

VLD.

4 hours ago, Ikantcpell said:

 

Lovely, and me an old rocker too, thanks for posting,

VLD.

9 hours ago, Seat68 said:

Be interesting to see how long it lasts before the various lunatic white lives matter people mobilise and get to Bristol. 

Yes an interesting point of view. Whist it is okay to break the law and vandalise a statue to bring 'attention' to racism it is wrong for someone whose beliefs you disagree with to do the same? 

I personally think that it is okay to persuade councils to remove inappropriate statues but not to simply tear them down ( I am expecting the usual 'Gammon ' rant). We have laws for a reason .It is to prevent anarchy.

Whats next, public stoning for anyone who disagrees with you opinion.......

Regards,

VLD.

10 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I definitely don’t think it will be that low upfront.  I think it’ll be 70m plus add ons.  We have no incentive to sell, we have 3 years left on his contract and rich owners.  He can be as disgruntled as he wants we aren’t going to get taken advantage of.  We hold most of the cards in this situation.

I think you will find that the players always ' hold all the cards'. Contracts mean nothing these days, if a player wants to move then he will go. Players that want a move simply stop trying and the club is forced to sell before team moral is ruined and the players value drops, sad but true.

VLD.

18 hours ago, LondonLax said:

It’s not just about a picture of a black person. 

The name ‘Uncle Ben’ is a reference to a time in the US when black people were not considered worthy of being given the title of ‘Mr’ or ‘Mrs’ and were instead nicknamed ‘Uncle’ or ‘Aunty’. 

In the current day calling the guy on the front of the box ‘Uncle’ Ben instead of ‘Mr’ Ben is crass once you become aware of the history. I’m not surprised they are looking at a more up to date branding. 

I wasn't aware of that history, ( how many people are? ) thanks for the update , what is the connection to boiled rice? 

Regards,

VLD.

Just realised I have been eating rice with 'racist' overtures for the last God knows how many years. Uncle Bens rice has a picture of a black man on the packet........

Getting silly now, don't you think.....

Regards,

VLD.

4 hours ago, lexicon said:

I don't agree with this entirely, because I don't see 'lack of effort' as being a massive problem in the squad - certainly not like it was when we went down last time. I think the only two players who hold back on that front are AEG and Hourihane. 

Effort alone does not cut the mustard anymore. I'm sorry, it just doesn't. Trezeguet runs around like a madman half the time, but what good does it do? You need talent. You can't survive in the prem without it. 

As for the spine - what's the spine of the team in your opinion?

For me, Wesley and Heaton were meant to play a big part in it - yet we lost them both in the same game, barely halfway through the season. Was that Smith's fault? No. Did we have the funds to replace our first choice goalie and striker? No, because we had to spend so much in the summer. 

There are so many mitigating circumstances this season.  

'Mitigating circumstances ', I think you will find that these are normally called 'excuses '.....

VLD.

20 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Stick with him. Change up the squad. 

Again? A full season in the prem. and he still doesn't know his best side......embarrassing...

VLD.

3 minutes ago, rbcuk said:

He’s got the job all villa fans would love and this is the shit he is giving us, has to go before the start of next season 

Should have gone last September, when it was obvious he was a clueless amateur, clearly out of his depth,

VLD.

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

But he didn't say that in what you quoted. 

What was said ignoring the F1 bit was 'Refreshing to see in our do as I do / pc /thought police world.....'

Which is fair enough. It's even a relevant point to it. Social movements for change like BLM or MeToo will always take the moral highway and ridicule anyone thinking the cause is slightly bigger than some gimmicky hashtag, bumpersticker or footing/taking a knee. Anyone that offers reasons as to why maybe there's better ways to go about it will be hit with a tornado of suppression techniques. Which is largely how society determine what's right and wrong. Individual thinking goes out the window and people are scared shitless of being different than the rest. 

Now, personally, I think taking a knee would be a very simple sacrifice to me, so if it ment a lot to others so be it. But the idea we can't discuss symbolics and ways of doing stuff, that grinds me the wrong way. 

Fwiw I thought the #metoo movement in Norway was beyond stupid. But I simply couldn't say that at my work cause among this PC environment (that shouts the loudest) I'd be ostracized.

Spot on Ken.....

VLD.

58 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It's comments like this that suggest a lack of understanding.

Do you mind if I  respectfully enquire how old you are?

VLD

13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Nobody has been forced to take a knee

Hi ,

Are you purposely misunderstanding my posts ( it is making you look a bit childish, if you don't mind me saying ),

REGARDS,

VLD. 

12 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Has any organisation so far has tried to overrule people making their own decision on this? 

 

Hi Sam,

I mentioned this simply to illustrate my point regarding 'free expression '. Lewis wanted all the F1 drivers to ' take the knee'. Some said that they didn't feel 'comfortable ' doing this. Lewis then said ' they showed a lack of understanding ' on the issue ( which was inaccurate and insinuated they might not be sympathetic to oppressed black people ). My point was/is that they simply wanted to express their opinion in a different way, and should do so ( which they did). Sorry for the long winded reply but I hope you can see my point know.

VLD.

1 hour ago, blandy said:

If I may say so, you’ve completely missed the point I was making. It was nothing to do with what I want, and everything to do with what BLM “leaders” said they want and the impact it has when a protest group ventures away from the original unifying message off into extremist overtly political territory.

But I’ll answer your question anyway. I’d like it to be so that people are not discriminated against, or for, because of their skin colour or race. I want people to treat others as they themselves would wish to be treated. And that’s not how it is right now in far too many cases and aspects of life.

I'm with you 100%, and a well thought out post that is far better explained than I could manage. You are particularly observant regarding how people with far left/right views are twisting what is required to reach a very necessary goal. As I have mentioned , we wouldn't even need legislation if people would simply act in a reasonable way and teach their children accordingly, that has to be the nub of the issue surely ( for all colours and faiths ).

VLD.

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

Oh come on, just playing golf at 75 is a feat in itself

I don't mind being old, I would be more worried if I was stupid........

VLD.

On 01/07/2020 at 18:49, Graham t said:

Here's a thought....

If a Premier player had decided he simply did not believe in the political objectives of BLM and had refused to wear that shirt with the BLM motif would he...

Be sacked by his club

Attacked in the street by people who felt insulted by his stance

or

allowed freedom of choice...

'Regards'

VLD.

I see F1 were happy to allow drivers to 'take a knee' or not, depending on their own point of view.... Refreshing to see in our do as I do / pc /thought police world......

VLD.

4 hours ago, blandy said:

This is true. I'd say that any movement to force change that goes down the route of "smash the system" is pretty much doomed to failure.

A movement that has a particular aim and manages to put that across well has a good chance - so "BLM" as a clear message for equality is a terrific starting point.

Given that it was (and still largely) is a disparate, but massively widespread groundswell opinion and shout for change, where a small group of people kind of ride on the back of that sentiment and start imposing their particular "smash the system" solution, they're potentially undermining the original cause, even if they don't mean or want to. If a critical mass of supporters do not support its aims, once they get to specifics, then it's doomed.

So on the specifics by trying to read-across US solutions (in their view) they make a big mistake. For example  "Defund the Police" is not (and is obviously not) a practical solution for the UK. The two systems are massively different. The US tools up their Police with practically military grade equipment and weaponry, exotically funding large parts of that at state level . The UK has a largely unarmed, more centrally (under) funded system. So the situations are necessarily completely different.

Or in short it's no good having ideas for change that will be rejected. When the majority start on your side, it's really important not to lose them with mis-steps on solutions. I don't expect anyone expects BLM to have all the answers. They don't need to.  There's millions out there (here) who can influence and lead and push genuine change. Use that, don't propose "radical" left (or right) wing off the shelf policies from the song books. It doesn't work. It loses people. Always.

What specifically do you want to see changed? It is one thing to 'take the knee' but this is just a gesture of support, but for what? What exactly needs to change? ( please don't say 'everything '). Be specific.

VLD.

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

Losing both Wes and Heaton for the season in one game is a major factor in our current plight IMO. 

Why, we were struggling when both of these were in the team.....

VLD.

2 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Wesley directly contributed to a huge number of goals even if he didn't play the final ball or finish it. The reason we are struggling to score is because we don't have him. We were scoring for fun with him, now without him we are dead in the water.

I say El Ghazi up front for the rest of the season with hourihane because at least they will score and create chances. 

'A huge number of goals'..............

VLD.