TheStagMan

Means about as much as comparing win records back to 1939 in different leagues and circumstances.

Frankly, I laugh at the comments made by most pundits when I listen to them, I often wonder how they got jobs as pundits. Most of them are Steve's mates from way back, so frankly the opinion of pundits is of zero interest to me.

I don't. But then I haven't categorically stated that he will. You have stated that Dean Smith will never achieve as much as Bruce has - I am asking how you can state that with such authority - given that Rowett is nearer the start of his career rather than the end (as Bruce is) and is managing in the same league and doing as well as Bruce with less resources? In this context Bruce's playing career (excellent as it was) is irrelevant. We are talking about his managerial abilities as he manages us, he does not play for us. No, I do not believe that the comments you are making about our players not being good enough are true. A decent manager would be able to manage them more effectively and get better from them.

Funny then, if you can see all these flaws in our players that our world beater of a manager cannot see and deal with them (you know, do his job). He has had 3 transfer windows and a year with this squad and there has been very little visible progress. To say our players are simply not good enough is scraping the barrel in the defense of Steve Bruce to be frank. Lets say for one minute that I agree with you (i Don't) and we do not have one of the best squads in the league - we have not managed to beat any of the current top 8 teams - so we have the 9th best squad of players in the league? The main problem here is the manager and his ability to get the best out of these players. They were all doing very well at their respective clubs, yet they come here and pretty much turn to s**t overnight. I'm sorry I just don't buy that. Ultimately as the manager - he is responsible for the performance of the team - if the players are not good enough then he has to replace them or coach them to be better. If the players are not responding to his methods, then he has to do something about it. That's his job as manager, that's what he is paid millions of pounds for. That's what all his vast experience should be bringing. Making statements like the players aren't good enough, of FFP is hindering his ability to get us playing better are excuses for poor managerial abilities, nothing more. Other teams manage to produce better football with far less funds and with less skillfull players. Why is that? Could it be that their manager & coaches are doing a better job?

So basically you are saying that the players we have are not good enough to be challenging at the top of this league? Also, how do you know that Dean Smith will not go on to achieve more as a manager than Bruce.

Ok, that's fine, as an example of a decision going badly. However that does not mean that sacking Bruce would go as badly for us. Plus in relative terms Rowett was achieving far more at SHA than Bruce is here, so to me It is an even less logical comparison. The other part of my point is that performances and achievement were not the whole reason he was sacked. What would it take for you to want Bruce gone?

Well, No, because it is a completely different set of circumstances. Rowett had taken them as far as they could go and was talking to other clubs about a move. Bruce has underachieved and is not meeting his targets. Can you see the difference there? Anyway, I don't really care what has / has not happened at other clubs, I care about the best thing for ASTON VILLA, at the moment I am not convinced that is Steve Bruce.

True, I am not qualified to identify a new manager - It's not my job to do so - for example, I knew nothing about Martin O'Neil before he joined the club (!!)- I would hope that there are people at the club who are qualified and have a list of potential managerial targets as you suggest. However, as a fan - someone who has watched Villa all my life, and also watched other teams for comparison I am qualified to say that what we are seeing on the pitch is just not good enough. Some people blame the players, I don't buy that - some of these players were the best performers at the their championship clubs, others are tried and tested premier league players. Most managers and fans in this league would love to have our players. All are more capable than the dross we are seeing served up on the pitch and that is down to the manager. Unfortunately it appears on here that it is not permitted to want Bruce gone unless you have a full list of replacement managers who are better and are guaranteed to get us automatic promotion. Newsflash - it is perfectly acceptable to ask the question without knowing the answer. Sometimes you have to roll the dice and take a chance, unfortunately the opportunity to do that has gone, and now were are really in trouble. We have had a run of decent results - but these results are not reflective of the (majority of) poor performances, and this is not sustainable. We STILL cannot hold onto the ball, we cannot retain possession and take pressure off ourselves, which always results in backs to the wall defending. This will bite us and I do fear a massive kicking coming up over the next couple of months. We keep saying "the next x games are massive", and we sort of scrape through them just doing enough for it to be "acceptable" but not great, we also seem to be lowering our expectations each time. At the start of the season we were aiming for promotion as champions, then automatic promotion - and given the resources and players available, the money spent and the supposed pedigree of our manager (four promotions, FOUR) automatic promotion should be the minimum target. Now we are accepting of a play off place. Anything down to 6th seems to be acceptable. And yet people seem to think that we will make it through the playoffs. I don't know what about our performances to sate, and especially against the teams we would be likely to meet in the playoffs makes people think that we would have any chance of going up via the playoffs. I worry that "gaining a play off place" but ultimately losing out on promotion will be seen as a result at the end of the season. Maybe it will be because I can guarantee one thing - if we continue the way we are, lady luck smiles on us and we continue to scrape results and do somehow get up via the playoffs, we will come straight back down, with possibly a more embarrassing set of results than last time. We should have been using our time down here to develop a playing style, getting momentum behind us, confidence flowing and getting Villa park buzzing - not coming out with **** like "a point is a great result because we would have lost that game last season". Being better than the utter crap we have been is not good enough. Unfortunately we have wasted a season and a half - messing around with a manager who is not capable of getting us playing how we need to be. Well at the risk of repeating the mantra: the next 6 really are massive as we now start to play the decent teams - teams whom we have not yet managed to get a result against. Will be interesting to see where we are by the end of the year - I honestly think we will be out of the top six.

I do agree that we can't sack him at the moment, and there is no obvious replacement available, and that is really depressing. Won't stop me criticising rubbish performances though.

LOL is we we are back to making sarky comments about those who are concerned for the future of our club under the "stewardship" of a manager who isn't good enough.

No they haven't and if you read this thread it is full of people excusing him. That's what I am talking about, that and the general snide comments from the Bruce supporters when we do scrape a win.

Watching today's "performance" on the back of other "performances" this season I would seriously doubt we would even make the playoffs. Sadly we are stuck with Bruce until at least the end of the season, let's hope luck is on our side.

No, apparently as the manager nothing that happens on the pitch is down to him, unless we win, in which case it is entirely because of him. It only works one way.

Possibly, but it's funny how these players were good enough elsewhere. I don't know about you but I am sick of seeing the same dross served up week after week and people glossing over our deficiencies when we win.

Yes , but you are not allowed to say this because it is anti-Bruce.

Well, I have been told by multiple people in this thread that the Wolves squad is much better than ours, and their players are superior - so I guess they would do even better than we are. Yes, we have injuries, but we are doing OK. You missed a couple of posts mate, I accepted that they are key losses but we are doing OK (look I even said it twice in this post)

If you read my post you will see that i did describe them as key players - but admittedly I did not capitalise it like you did. And this is why the absolute reliance on Kodjia was such a mistake, as it was last year.

I agree he is doing OK. And I am not playing down the injury problems - if you read it I did call the three i mentioned KEY players, however, we have a large squad that we should by now be in a position to use better and not be relying on a 19 year old to lead the line for us. But hey, we are where we are.

There are only really 3 key players out. Terry, Kodjia and Jedi - in that order. Hogan, Green and RHM are not really first teamers although now would have been ideal for them to try and stake a claim Gabby and Micah are just a waste of wages so no loss there. Out on loan is a choice not an injury. Yes we have injury problems but let's not make out we have lost half the first team.

All I can say is that we must have had some pretty shit win %ages in the past is Steve Bruce is the super-manager to beat them all.

Sheffield Wednesday was a one off freak game? Seriously? You are ridiculing my comments and you make statements like that. Perhaps you should read the comments again ... I am enjoying the wins. What I am not enjoying is the nail-biting ends to games where we try and defend a lead, where we cannot find our own players with a pass and where we end up backs to the wall. Ipswich was not too bad in this respect, but on the whole we cannot finish teams off and we just do not seem to have the appetite to do so. We also cannot keep hold of the ball. That cannot last as a long term strategy. What I cannot accept is that everything is fine just because we are winning (which is great) - I also want to see overall improvement and see us looking worthy winners. Last season we went on a winning streak and lots of comments like "we have turned a corner", "its all clicked into place" and "Bruce has turned us around" were bandied around the place when there was no improvement in playing style and performance, then look what happened....... Whilst I accept this does feel different to last season and it does seem to be more sustainable, we still have a lot of work to do before we can consider promotion to be in the bag.

Are you seriously saying our players are not good enough to be coached into a cohesive unit that can pass to each other? Wow! Our local kids teams can be coached to pass to each other. I absolutely disagree that Wolves are man for man better than us. They are not, they have some good players absolutely, but not individually better than ours. Was it you that said "Wolves are at their limit, whereas there is more to come from us"? As for predatory attacks, maybe we should be expecting us to raid Wolves if their players are so much better. I bet we won't.

So many points they dont all fit in one bag :-)

Are you seriously trying to say that Wolves have individually better players than us? They have not. What they have is a better coaching and management style where the players are well drilled and know what to expect from each other and it shows. Pretty much any of our players would walk into that Wolves team and would do very very well.

Here we go again. We have won the game, so its fair game to insult and criticise anybody who dares to voice legitimate concerns about the way we are playing. Yes, we have won the game, and that's great. we are up to fourth and that is also great - Bruce is doing what he needs to do and I am content with that. If it keeps going I will be very happy. However Sheffield Wednesday was only a couple of games ago and we looked poor and lost against an organised team. We have since played weak teams who were poor themselves. Ipswich were very poor, and after the second goal they pretty much gave up. We misplaced so many passes our players STILL look like strangers to each other. It was only after the second goal that we managed to keep hold of the ball for more than a few passes, by which time Ipswich weren't really pressing us. My concern, and the thing I think Bruce is failing at is making this group of players into a consistent team that can take the pressure off themselves by holding onto the ball and passing to each other rather than relying on an ability to defend a lead. This is not a sustainable strategy for an entire season, no matter how well we defend. What we should have done by now is build a unit of a team that works well together and can keep hold of the damned ball. we should then be able to have a sensible plan for how to add quality to that same team to improve us into the premier league to make sure we stay there. At the moment i am concerned that if we go up it will just be another round of buying decent players and hoping it works. Our two best players this season are players that were basically forced on Bruce (to say otherwise is very selective memory) - which doesn't bode well for his ability to keep us up. How many of the lauded 4 promotions have come straight back down or only survived one season? That said, at the moment he is doing what he needs to do. He should be doing better with the players at his disposal, but wins are wins and as long as he keeps providing them then I will be happy for this season. As for what I want - I can take a battling or unlucky loss, that's football. What I cannot take is lacklustre football and lucky wins or reliance on individual flashes of brilliance. At the moment we are moving away from the latter, and if we start to see more of the former, consistently over a number of games then Bruce will be moving in the right direction. Until then, I and others have every right to criticise poor performances.