LakotaDakota

9 minutes ago, limpid said:

Have you got a link for this?

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-symptoms-loss-of-smell-taste-covid-19-anosmia-hyposmia-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

    A sudden loss of smell — known as anosmia or hyposmia — could be a symptom of the coronavirus, even if patients experience no other symptoms, according to leading rhinologists in the UK.
    Evidence from South Korea, China, and Italy suggests that many patients with COVID-19 may have experienced a loss of smell without any other symptoms.
    The British Association of Otorhinolaryngology calls on the authorities to advise anyone with a loss of smell or taste to self-isolate.
    Young people could be more likely to carry the disease without presenting the more commonly recognised symptoms of fever and coughing, they believe.

The linked website seems to be dead/very slow to load

https://www.entuk.org/loss-sense-smell-marker-covid-19-infection

One of the few articles that seems to be coming at it from the this is a massive over reaction side : As usual with the mail the comments underneath make for some interesting reading

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2020/03/peter-hitchens-is-shutting-down-britain-with-unprecedented-curbs-on-ancient-liberties-really-the-bes.html#comments

We are warned of supposedly devastating death rates. But at least one expert, John Ioannidis, is not so sure. He is Professor of Medicine, of epidemiology and population health, of biomedical data science, and of statistics at Stanford University in California. He says the data are utterly unreliable because so many cases are going unrecorded.

He warns: ‘This evidence fiasco creates tremendous uncertainty about the risk of dying from Covid-19. Reported case fatality rates, like the official 3.4 per cent rate from the World Health Organisation, cause horror and are meaningless.’ In only one place – aboard the cruise ship Diamond Princess – has an entire closed community been available for study. And the death rate there – just one per cent – is distorted because so many of those aboard were elderly. The real rate, adjusted for a wide age range, could be as low as 0.05 per cent and as high as one per cent.

As Prof Ioannidis says: ‘That huge range markedly affects how severe the pandemic is and what should be done. A population-wide case fatality rate of 0.05 per cent is lower than seasonal influenza. If that is the true rate, locking down the world with potentially tremendous social and financial consequences may be totally irrational. It’s like an elephant being attacked by a house cat. Frustrated and trying to avoid the cat, the elephant accidentally jumps off a cliff and dies.’

Original John Ioannidis article from a week ago

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

The data collected so far on how many people are infected and how the epidemic is evolving are utterly unreliable. Given the limited testing to date, some deaths and probably the vast majority of infections due to SARS-CoV-2 are being missed. We don’t know if we are failing to capture infections by a factor of three or 300. Three months after the outbreak emerged, most countries, including the U.S., lack the ability to test a large number of people and no countries have reliable data on the prevalence of the virus in a representative random sample of the general population.

This evidence fiasco creates tremendous uncertainty about the risk of dying from Covid-19. Reported case fatality rates, like the official 3.4% rate from the World Health Organization, cause horror — and are meaningless. Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.

The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.

17 minutes ago, Awol said:

While we’re at it, a thread on why blaming the public for shopping more than normal in supermarkets is virtue signaling BS: 

 

don't think that guys maths is right, can't just average out the whole  year and split it evenly every month, There will be large variancies month to month & no time to plan for additional seasonal  stock which would usually happen at xmas/easter/summer etc, Also there are vast quantities of very specific items being purchased in numbers that are completely unprecedented.

Sure, people need to buy more of everything if they are not leaving the house and eating all meals at home etc but that should not strip shelves completely of multiple products for weeks. People are panic buying & hoarding there is no doubt about that.

similar interview here although the doc talks for 30 mins

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2

"We're pleading - please stay indoors" - A&E Dr Al called 5 Live Nolan.

Young, Fit, Drogheda footballer ended up in hospital on a ventilator for 8 days, definitely not just the old ending up in the shit but he seems to have recovered at least

Real Madrids former president Lorenzo Sanz (76) has died as a result of corona virus, His son has tweeted this :

Rought translation : My father just passed away. He didn't deserve this ending and like this. One of the nicest, bravest, hard-working people I've ever seen. His family and Real Madrid were his passion. My mother and brothers have enjoyed all their moments with pride DEP.

He was Reals president when we were over there playing Atletico in the late 90's

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

We booked our slot 3 weeks ago as normal - however we got a text this morning to say delivery is cancelled due to staff shortages - i went to shop this morning at tesco but no eggs , bread , frozen goods , even cat food and tins were empty - hopefully everyone gets through this - we must all put our health first if possible and stay home if we can 

amazon are good for cat food, boxes of 84 packs of whiskas for £20 or so still in stock & available for next day prime delivery

I really hope someone is getting some decent 4k+ drone footage of all the empty towns & cities

i really wish we had some idea of the actual number of cases, regardless of knowing the numbers the hospitals are still going to be overrun but there is far more likely to be 1 million people with it than 4000 at the moment which at least puts some sort of more realistic perspective on the mortality rate and would hopefully calm some of the nutters down. Although i guess it could also work the other way & make them more carefree too if only 100 per million are dying

So my cupboards now look like i have been some sort of panic buying loon, couple of people from work have been round & dropped a pile of stuff off & some other family turned up with a boot full. There is probably more uncle bens microwave rice here than in some shops All very much appreciated but it looks a bit rediculous. Actually managed to find an asda delivery slot for wednesday & had ordered a bunch of stuff but will cancel it now so hopefully someone else can get some stuff

35 minutes ago, Jon said:

Thanks for this info Lakota. I think I have this TBH. Noticed yesterday that when chatting to a friend I was struggling for breath a little.  Nothing serious.  But then woke up early this morning with slight breathing issues (not bad) and occasional chest pain (not bad). Seems to be getting worse (intermittently) throughout the day.  It's not particularly bad, but taking a deep breath is giving me discomfort/ light pain.  So I'm taking your advice and drinking water & paracetamol.  

It's no biggie at the moment but does seem to be getting slightly worse.  Are you over the worst of yours yet? 

i think/hope so & sorry to hear it if you have the same. Wednesday night was very concerning & think i must have been doing a bit too much yesterday or something as for about an hour last night it felt almost as bad but has generally been easier but by no means gone/completely better and it feels like i am getting out of breath far more easily than i should be if i am trying to do anything around the house so honestly i would just say as far as possible try and take it easy and do bugger all as much as possible. ( I normally walk the mile or so to work & back every day at 4+ miles an hour according to my fitbit without even a deep breath so i shouldn't be getting out of breath walking around the house)

I am lucky enough to have a couple of boxes of paracetamol in the house, not sure if they are doing anything but have been taking 2 in the morning, 2 in the afternoon & 2 in the evening & drinking plenty of water through the day (mostly with some squash/cordial in but a few glasses of just water). Probably have enough here to do this for another week then i will be out but by then my quarantine should be up so should at least hopefully be able to have a look for some in the shop.

I have also had a couple of hot baths & just sat in there reading a book for half an hour or so, again not sure if this helps but if i ever have a cold or feel a bit bunged up i often find that the steam helps clear the head & airways a bit.

If you are concerned and end up calling 111 you will be in for a long wait i am afraid. You will get through to basically the welcome person, they will screen out 90% of calls, If they have concerns that you should probably speak to someone else you will then end up on hold for anywhere upto 2 hours to speak to level 2. They will go through the same sort of questions but in a bit more detail with maybe some more person info thrown in. Most calls will end here with basically the same advice (paracetamol.water/isolate etc) but should they have more concerns you will then be waiting for stage 3 which will be a nurse calling you back, wait time for this is 2 hours+ again the nurse will go through the process again, with the same advice but if they are still concerned you will get to the final boss level of the clincal assessment team. Again this will be another 2 hours+ before they call you back and at this point you will either end up pretty much back at square 1 with the same advice you have been given all along or someone is going to turn up at your house in a hazmat suit sometime in the next few hours which may or may not end up in a trip to hospital.

Not sure how old you are and maybe this will be different for people older than my 45 years of age but this was my experience. If you are really, really struggling for breath and can't srting more than a few words together i would honestly just call 999 or if you are calling 111 as soon as you get through basically let them know you are in immediate fear for your life or you will be waiting hours

I know it is still early on in this whole thing but think we are well past the point of simply saying well it's worth a try in the lab or a handful of people on some of these existing drugs out there.

I am sure there would be a willing line of already hospitalised people willing to give them a try when the current outcome is you will either die or possibly recover, seems to be a 50/50 call but this drug that works on similar things may help, do you want to give it a go...

You would think that with some of them already being available pretty much over the counter we would be unlikely to unleash the t-virus.

Almost one of those too good to be true outcomes i guess if it turns out that something there are already millions of that cost pennies ends up being the answer or at least, good enough to halt/slow things down enough for a proper long term vaccine to be found but who knows, maybe Trump & his gut feeling is right, here's hoping

35 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Finally, there are some positives to focus on. Pollution has plummeted (this in turn may save lives; did read an argument in a leading paper that we actually may end up in a net positive death rate due to all deaths from pollution), people are re-evaluating their impact on the world and it might be the seismic shock the world needed to look at how we deal with everything, politically, financially and morally.

Yes there's a lot of bad stuff going on, yes take precautions and listen to advice and experts. But don't sink in to a depression about it, try to look for hope. You'll feel better for it! If you can't change anything, I think looking for good news is just as valid as looking for depressing stuff.

Yep despite the dickheads there is still plenty of good going on & would include the politicians in that. People moan about them all the time but hell at least they are trying to ensure there is something to go back to once this is done at the moment, Not sure how anyone really plans for something like this properly and to just get stuff done rather than the years of debate & slow roll out it usually takes to do anything is exactly what is needed at the moment.

On a personal note too i haven't had a fag since wednesday. Been an on & off smoker for most of the past 25 years but have been on for the last 5 or so. Would normally be going insane about now but have no inclination to inhale anything other than large gulps of fresh air at the moment so if i come out of this the other end as a none smoker for good it will no doubt help in the long run & will leave me about 4 grand a year better off presuming money is still a thing

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

I personally think I have already had it, as rumours are coming out now it apparently started in 'America' in August/September an transferred to China.

The flu I had in November/December, around 5/6 others at my office, who we are all in close contact with, (also my partner had it who rarely gets a flu) was like no other we had experienced before. Like a tight band around your head, indigestion type symptoms, occasional shortness of breath. My one colleague runs and was complaining he couldn't run a 400 metres even though he generally does a 5 mile run every weekend. One other guy who I was chatting too yesterday was even admitted to hospital coughing up blood. He was put on a drip and just got better over time, although no explanation was given for what he had. He was refused treatment 3 times doctors saying he just had a bad flu.

I have just been reading on the internet, "its geoengineering, contrails are actually chemicals", naa none of that bullcrap. But some scientists actually saying it must have come from America, as they have the genome A,B,C,D and E strains of it, there is no other country which has all strains. Believe what you like but this is no normal Virus which has come out of nowhere. That market is Wuhan China is centuries old and seems completely random to have happened now!

Almost like the whole Bill Gates kill 80% of the population thing is real & rather good timing on the event 201 pandemic "simulation" too...

Tinfoil hat time i guess but none of them predicted the bog roll issues

http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about

Event 201 was a 3.5-hour pandemic tabletop exercise that simulated a series of dramatic, scenario-based facilitated discussions, confronting difficult, true-to-life dilemmas associated with response to a hypothetical, but scientifically plausible, pandemic. 15 global business, government, and public health leaders were players in the simulation exercise that highlighted unresolved real-world policy and economic issues that could be solved with sufficient political will, financial investment, and attention now and in the future.

The exercise consisted of pre-recorded news broadcasts, live “staff” briefings, and moderated discussions on specific topics. These issues were carefully designed in a compelling narrative that educated the participants and the audience.

The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, World Economic Forum, and Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation jointly propose these recommendations.

The English Game is entertaining enough & only 6 parts. Downton Abbey with the origins of professional football thrown in. Just sat & watched the whole thing

Despite my situation of genuinely fearing i was heading towards being one of the numbers a couple of days back, it's still kinda staggering that 10,000, mostly old people dying over a 2 month+ period has landed us with the world as it currently is. Despite the chaos it is causing the numbers are still pretty much miniscule, There are league 2 teams that get that many people through the turnstiles and even as a percentage of the population of a large city it still isn't even an awful lot of people yet pretty much the whole world is either confined to their house, or soon to be confined to their house for an indefinite period of time and governments are now paying people not to go to work. Mind boggling really

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

Ouch.

So as to not lose your post in here, do you want to bung it in the pinned thread in case there's anyone nearby who can help?

honestly we're ok, Have friends,family,neighbours all able to help at the moment and we're reasonably stocked up for now anyway. Just highlighting the situation in general. If i want a proper shop delivered to my house from the supermarket that i can walk to in 3 minutes the earliest they can do is nearly 18 days away

2 minutes ago, leighavfc said:

If your local mate I'm sure some of us can help you out and get something to you? PM me if you wish and il see what I can do mate 

Thanks, We're ok at the moment & have people who can help with stuff but when people are being told to stay indoors and you can't get an online delivery for over 2 weeks people are just going to go out and take their chances. I had a quick look on amazon earlier. Their entire pantry selection consisted of 1 king sized pot noodle.

54 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Aren't most supermarket deliveries done from store rather than warehouse?

honestly no idea, Something needs to be done though. Can't leave the house for 2 weeks. Looking at booking a delivery from morrisons, The first slot available is 10-11pm on Saturday April 4th.

Thankyou to people offering to help, We're ok at the moment & have people who can help with stuff so should hopefully be fine but when people are being told to stay indoors and you can't get an online delivery for over 2 weeks people are just going to go out and take their chances.

4 hours ago, Awol said:

Glad to hear you’re home. So the 700-odd new cases yesterday were admitted to hospital 48 hrs ago (how long the test result takes to come back) in a worse state than you - who still needed paramedics & a blue-light call out... 

Out of interest how old are you mate, normally healthy? 

 

 

 

Either worse or older I would think. I'm 45 so I guess at the lower end of the likely to die chart. Usually fine as far as I know other than being a bit tubby although there are heart issues on my dads side which I was actually supposed to be getting screened for this month. Had bad pneumonia as a kid that nearly finished me off and ended up with severe asthma after this but that seemed to clear in late teens & haven't used an inhaler or anything for years. This feels like the asthma I guess, just can't get a decent breath.

Pretty convinced the wife had it over the weekend/earlier in the week & now almost certain i have it after doing some coughing today & being rather short of breath since last night. Great fun