praisedmambo

Also "stability doesn't guarantee success" but chopping and changing every season, or half way through a season, pretty much guarantees failure.

Is it the same squad as last season? No. Absolutely not. Is the squad still rebuilding? Yes. We lost all sorts of players from last season, so I think it is a misguided comparison. These changes had to happen too, and unfortunately we are still in the transition. Like it or not, Lambert did do a good job at Norwich where he had time. Etc etc etc. It wasn't that long ago BJ10. The financial restrictions would still exist if Lambert was sacked and a new manager came back in. The only option is to stick to the plan for Lambert. Randy, on the other hand could put some money in, that might be nice.

I'm not arguing with that. I might dip back in tomorrow.

Dip in dip out. Nobody cares. It's a football forum. I spend too much time on here as it is.

i have been here since 2007.. Some logic astounds me. People say all sorts on here so maybe get off your high horse, eh.

I can't believe people think the answer is always sack sack sack. It goes wrong more times than it goes right. Sometimes, if the club is in decline anyway the only option is to frikking stick it out and get a bit of stability back. There's not many with better credentials than Lambert, and if there are seems they are already at clubs higher than us in the table. Nobody is going to come in and save our season. The only thing to do is get behind this team and hope they show some form that has been apparent at certain times in the season. Lambert's teams traditionally end the season well.

maybe you could just be rational? Instead of being a moany...er...so and so.

Hold on, if Norwich finished above Stoke last season does that make Pulis a better manager than Lambert? Doesn't that make Lambert a better manager than Pulis? Or is it even fair to make these assumptions? Am I thinking too hard about this? - I mean a lot of people here seem to like only the most basic superficial contexless stats to form their fool hysterical opinions. 2011/2012 Norwich, who two seasons before were in league 1, finished 12th, with 52 goals and 66 goals conceded, giving a goal difference of -14 Stoke, who have been in the prem since 2009 finished 14th, with 36 goals and 53 goals conceded, giving a goal difference of -17 **** sake people. I'm just making a point you can twist stats to mean anything. (And you're all fools)

Your bitterness leaves a nasty taste. All you guys do sound like you think the mess started this season, which is foolish. He'll get time and only then will anyone be able to say what's right or not.

Also when it comes to the 'Downing money' or the 'Milner money', shouldn't the amount we paid for them be factored too. I'm just thinking when people moan about Lerner not putting in any dosh. I think sometimes it gets forgotten.

"But even so"? "Not even the best magician in the world can produce a rabbit out of a hat if there is not already a rabbit in the hat."

Which brings us back to the start - isn't it a bit short sighted of you to blame it all on Lambert when we've been in relegation battles for 3 years now?

Yep, and to me, that sums up your point of view entirely - short sighted. The only evidence I need regarding a "bigger picture" is the common sense that some things take time. There are many examples throughout history that would back that up.

Unfair comparison. Lambert's been here for a lot less time and didn't inherit the squad Houllier did. But the squad? Losing Milner and never replacing him was the beginning of the demise. MON relied on about 14 players. After he left and Milner was gone and we got injuries to Petrov NRC, and suddenly we had Hogg and Bannan as our central midfield. The problems that we have now were exposed then, in my opinion.

Anyone actually addressing the issues at the club was going to find it tough. Lambert is facing the issues head on in a way that I believe can pay off in the long term. And I hope they do. I respect him for what he did at Norwich enough to have faith in him here. I think he is a talented manager, the right age and whatnot. I also think he has made good signings. No manager gets transfers 100% right but he's impressed me on that count here and at Norwich. I think the squad he has inherited has limited his choices as far as tactics. What does "is he doing the best we can expect" refer to? If he solves the problems and gets us in good shape like at Norwich - and we are a bigger club, so then we can push on and fulfill our potential - then he has done a good job. That was never going to happen in 6 months. "Bigger picture."

What top players? "Top player" maybe - I'm sure Benteke would likely go but anyone else who I'd want to stay at the club I think would. Lowton, Westwood, Vlaar, Weimann, Guzan...(I'm struggling now...funny how they were mostly signed by Lambert, eh)

Look not all signings come off, referring to KEA. Big John, I would hate to look at this situation at Villa the way you do. You'll disagree with me as much as I do with you, so I think it's ok for me to say that. Your whole argument hinges on 'Lambert contributing to all this' but, in my opinion, that is quite short sighted and doesn't really account for what has happened over the last few years and what needs to happen to sort this club out of the mess that was nothing to do with Lambert. Lambert is doing it. He has credentials, shit happens, it wasn't going to happen over night. Yadda yadda. Needs more time.

Also, it is the whole team that defends - being smashed by Chelsea, **** Bradford even, had as much to do with our shit midfield as any defence.

I am sorry but I think you see things in a very simple way. The balance of the squad was all over the place. So, he bought three defenders and now we have the worst defence in the league - we had a shit defence last season too, with more experienced players, and significantly a team that played all out defence, defenders in midfield, defenders up front. This transition was never going to be easy and maybe its been worse than expected but the plan is a good one. His signings look talented. I stand by it. The problems come from the overall team, and the non-existent options from the bench. Our squad also isn't big enough or good enough for the injuries we have dealt with, and when you start to look at the actual facts behind your statement that we have the worst defence in the league with Lambert's three defensive signings things start to unravel a little. For example, when we lost 8-0 the only Lambert defensive signing that played was Lowton. The defence that day was Lichaj Clark Baker Lowton. And in other games Vlaar's been out for a while. You can say that having a lot of squad players (who he inherited) playing has made a very significant contribution to our "Worst Defence in the League". The fact is the big wage earners were not adding good value to the team and had to or still have to go (Hutton, Warnock) - everyone was crying out for a new defence after last year (the all out defence year). The way I see it the thinking behind Lambert's actions have been pretty sound.

Unfortunately yes. The madness at this club has to stop and we need stability. Sacking another manager - who can we get in? I like Lambert's signings, to be honest, and I think the main problem has been the players that were already here. They're still here and a new manager will have the same problems Lambert has. If we go down, I stand by everything I have ever said, I'd still have Lambert as the manager. Clearly, it's not him I blame for the way we are. He has proven himself at Norwich - I'd swap our position for theirs right now. Norwich are a club who have been built up with sustainability and good finances in mind. Who did that? Lambert, whilst playing good football we'd all be happy to watch. We, Villa, are the total opposite. Over the last few years we have thrown money around trying to fix problems, sacking manager after manager, buying the wrong players - that is the whole reason we are in the mess. That is the madness I want to stop. If we have to take a big step back to go forwards, so be it. But I obviously hope that doesn't happen. Personally I think if we get some confidence back we might be able to find some form and be ok.

In the Norwich vs. Sha comparison, Lambert vs. McLeish, factor in to your thinking how Lambert took Norwich from League 1 to 12th in the prem in two seasons. And also factor in how you want your team to play football. I never want to see a team play football Mcleish's way ever again. Never. Norwich (a fairer assessment on Lambert's potential considering how long he was there and the few months he has had a Villa, inheriting a very ropy squad) play good attacking football and give it a go to get a win every game. "Lies, damn lies, and statistics" I know which one of the two I would want managing Villa.

Depends if you think short term or long term though, surely? Villa have to sort this out - you can put off trouble season by season but we never looked like we were going anywhere for a while. The whole place needs a massive shake up and I think it is happening. The worst signing of the summer does look like a McLeish one, unfortunately. Holman's not much better than a Hutton etc., and probably on a fairly decent wage - trouble is he's not very good at kicking a football, in the sense he always loses possession.

I don't know how serious I was being about Houllier - it's just the thought we had Sissoko lined up, and the left back they bought, and Cabaye

"It doesn't work at a big club"...I'm not sure he's really had enough time to prove that. We've been in a mess for too long and I agree with what he's trying to do. He hasn't had long enough...he's not clueless. He achieved a lot at Norwich that you don't get to achieve unless you have talent. There have been mistakes, which happen, but he is the most promising long term manager we have had in ages and we should stick by him. That's the only way I see it. How bleak did things look in the summer when we were managerless? The choices were dire but we actually got someone with credentials that on paper seem exactly what Villa need to turn around and move on from the last three years. He has made good signings but unfortunately what was there in the squad he inherited has been a number of ultimately disappointing players. The balance of the squad was all over the place. As for those saying well, he bought three defenders and now we have the worst defence in the league - we had a shit defence last season too, with more experienced players, and a team that played all out defence, defenders in midfield, defenders up front. This transition was never going to be easy and maybe its been worse than expected but the plan is a good one. All his signings look talented - it is the overall team that's the problem, and the non-existent options from the bench. Our squad also isn't big enough or good enough for the injuries we have dealt with. For example, when we lost 8-0 the only Lambert defensive signing that played was Lowton. The defence that day was Lichaj Clark Baker Lowton. In other games Vlaar's been out for a while. The fact is the big wage earners were not adding enough to the team and had to or still have to go (Hutton, Warnock) - everyone was crying out for a new defence after last year (the all out defence year). The way I see it the thinking behind Lambert's actions have been pretty sound. Er, yeah, except for the 3-5-2 wingback formation, which I think really needs to stop. He's a good manager taking on a tough job at a club that has **** itself up from some terrible signings and decisions over the previous years. Like it or not he is taking on all the problems and trying to build for the future. It would be short-sighted to sack him. We might not like some things that happen (the recent losses etc, risking relegation, maybe even getting it) but it doesn't look like the club are going to solve these kinds of problems by throwing stupid money around any more (fair enough, the money in football is what drives me mad). Lambert is as good as we're going to get and not bad at all as some people make out looking for someone to blame. Also, I hope none of you are the people who got Houllier his heart attack, because if he hadn't been abused so much there's quite a high chance all those players Newcastle have signed would have been playing for us, supplying a happy Darren Bent. We were in trouble when Houllier came and many, in my opinion, were short sighted in the abuse they gave him (forgetting his Liverpool love in actually, which was stupid) and look what that got us, Alex McLeish.

I love the thought of Newcastle's signings being as effective as QPR's in the summer, or like a collection of all the hyped players who have come to the premier league from france in the past and never made it. There are a lot like that. Many people looked to QPR's summer spending with envy and the reality has been stark in comparison. So Newcastle to be relegated and then be plunged into an insane financial mess because of all the ridiculous contracts I hope they've given out. Villa to survive in their place and kick on with more hungry young players to next season become a team everyone else envies and admires instead of being laughed at, Lambert suddenly lauded and admired for sticking to his guns and not losing his head, not like Pardew who currently fears the measly single year of payout from his stupid contract if he gets sacked (apparently that's what would happen). Something like that would be good. That's what I'm going with. A win on Tuesday might help.