Jareth

3 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

I mean, I agree with @magnkarl when he points out that there seems to be an awful lot of people who appear to have an incredibly narrow interest in war crimes - if Israel does them, they're constantly posting about how horrific it is, but they're nowhere to be found if war crimes are being committed elsewhere in the world (or by anyone else). The cynical part of me does wonder why that might be.

It's quite telling that almost everyone active in the Ukraine thread also posts in this thread, but the reverse isn't true - and often it's the people who are the most interested in condemning Israel who are missing.

(Obviously that doesn't necessarily make them wrong about Israel.)

I'm feeling that aimed this way - apologies if not. I can tell you I'd be in the Ukraine thread more than this one if the UK government were supporting, arming and defending Russia in their actions.  

4 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said:

Newcastle are a one club city

 

So's Brum

Just now, villa89 said:

It won't be a start though, because nothing will happen. Just like when the UN pass a resolution. It's just politicians/bureaucrats pretending they are doing something instead of actually doing something. It will be the same as when Putin was brought into the ICC, completely meaningless.  

Netanyahu and others will not be able to travel to Europe or any country who are obliged to arrest them having signed up to the ICC, for a start. It also applies pressure to western allies currently supplying weapons, as those weapons it will be proven are aiding war crimes. It matters.

Isn't the new synching of European competitions next season in order that all rounds of euro games in all comps are played on the same dates? If I haven't imagined that then the only difference between being in conference or UCL will be level of opposition - europe will take its toll on the schedule whichever comp you are in. Therefore,  deffo UCL please for lots of reasons.

The ICC by all accounts are on the verge of charging Netanyahu and two others at the top of the Israeli state, with war crimes, associated with the deprivation of food, as the first and earliest charges brought in an investigation which began in 2021, tasked with looking at 2014 and the years since. There will be other more complex charges brought in the years to come. They are also pursuing Hamas. We can all make assumptions about right and wrong, and we do, but it's high time a judgement like this was made - should it come to pass. If anything it will quell support for the Palestinian cause and create some balance, because people will no longer feel this injustice is being ignored. Of course I expect the ICC to be ridiculed by those who have been accused, but it'll be a start.

Haha

Quote

Manchester United are willing to listen to offers for virtually all their first-team squad this summer as Sir Jim Ratcliffe looks to turn the club back into challengers for major honours.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ce96wzkgzpgo

Unai is the key to European competition, and he'll have a better squad next season to make the step up in quality that's required if we make UCL. We won't be favourites but look how far we came this year in the prem, when nobody expected it. We'll more than compete. 

17 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

To my knowledge the Irish state and the IRA were 2 completely disconnected organisations.  Therefore the UK would be entirely to blame.  

But replace "IRA" with "Regular Irish Army" and its a different matter. 

My standpoint is simple - there is blame on both sides. 

I don't understand how anyone can come to any other conclusion?

I think it depends on how wide you go. Israel flattened a hospital, a war crime, and as a consequence a child dies as they had no access to healthcare (or even food and water) - I'm blaming Israel for that war crime and the subsequent death. I would blame Hamas for Oct 7th, another war crime. Is there blame to be shared in either instance? If there is then that's not easy to say. On the overall conflict,  there is blame on many sides. 

3 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Is it?  You learn something new every day. 

So you would agree that Ireland would be committing a war crime and the UK would be completely blameless?  

If you commit a war crime - are you able to defend that action by saying it was self defence, i.e. it was provoked and blame should be shared? 

42 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

It's 2035 and the UK is shelling Ireland using artillery placed on a hospital roof just over the Northern Ireland border.   After 400 Irish deaths the artillery piece is destroyed along with the maternity unit.  Who is responsible for the dead babies? 

Your answer - Ireland

My answer - UK and Ireland

Can't you see how perverse your logic is?  

 

 

Pretty sure levelling multiple hospitals is a war crime. 

1 minute ago, magnkarl said:

In a wider sense, the death-toll in Palestine is nothing new in warfare, even if that sounds horrible.

I do hear this often, those people getting written off one way or another - I'm fairly sure they shouldn't be written off, same as nobody has written off the victims of Oct 7th. It's a tragedy for Israel, most neutrals watching the reaction to Oct 7th see an over-reaction, a murdering spree multiple times larger than Oct 7th - and I can't speak for the Irish gov, but the overiding message is for the killing to stop, first and foremost. Israel have done untold damage to themselves and when folks are suggesting they stop, it's honestly because they think it's in their best interests, I certainly think that.

Just now, magnkarl said:

So the Oct 7th terrorism gave Israel no cause to defend themselves? I'm sorry, but your argument just seems not very well put together, especially when you base your argument on the fact that Ireland is so pure after having funded the IRA for god knows how many years and not managed to stop the violence before there was an agreement that put the various animosity aside and tried to look forward.

Have they defended themselves yet? 

27 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

It's bizarre to blame Israel when it's so obviously a complex situation where all are to blame.  

Hamas are hiding amongst the civilian population.  Hamas are using humanitarian supplies for their military.  Hamas are holding hostages in civilian areas. Hamas could surrender. Hamas could give up the hostages.  Hamas could stop smuggling weapons into the area.  

Hamas wanted a war. They got it.  Now they are punishing their own people by prolonging a war that they never stood a chance of winning.  

Israel has a powerful modern army and modern munitions - yet it has somehow annihilated civilians on a breathtaking scale, also targeting and executing British aid workers and many others. These crimes, including intentional famine currently afflicting Gaza, are Israel's fault. Oct 7th = Hamas' fault. I'm blaming whoever is pulling the trigger. 

Pretty damn good timing getting this injury whilst also suspended - couldn't have asked for much more. 

Shout out to the not quite dead co-efficient this week...

21 minutes ago, bickster said:

Is there a point to this post? Lots of US students are as wrong as you. What is the point you’re attempting to make? 

Well it's the reverse point you are making - what do people do about the current situation? Say nothing but disagree strongly, and avoid those traps you describe, or take action? The only action I take is to hurl Israeli radishes out of reach in Asda, not in an antisemitic rage but because our own government refuses to sanction them for some appaling recent behaviour. The US students obviously go stronger and possibly have jeopardised their futures. Why does anybody care? Well that's for each of us to choose. 

1 minute ago, magnkarl said:

Ireland should tell the Palestinians and Israelis to stop the never-ending spiral of violence, rather than trying to put all the blame on one side like you are. I would've thought they'd learned after funding a movement that committed wide-scale terror in a neighbouring nation for 50 years without much to show for. Israel are completely wrong in their response, but the innate ability that many Pro-Palestinian people seem to have to completely dismiss why Israel are reacting after the history they've had with their neighbours is beyond me.

Well I think that is what they're saying - to stop, pronto. I've admitted I blame Israel for the current situation, they are in charge and have all of the power and decision making yet there is famine in Gaza - that's some biblical punishment going on. I probably take it for granted that it is understood that Hamas/Iran are shits of the highest order, the world needs to get rid ASAP, it's the collateral damage to civilians that irks me personally, and it appears intentional - that's why I blame Israel. 

Just now, bickster said:

You agree with them but don’t know what they’ve said? What? 

Well I could cut and paste what the leaders of Northern Ireland and Ireland have said about the 'current' situation, in fact I had that tee'd up but thought there's no point in googling for others so dismissed it - it also didn't address what magnkarl asked so I attempted to tailor a response to his question - damned if you do, damned if you don't. There's a great article about the history of Ireland and why its people are so inclined on this issue, making them an outlier in white european nations, I won't paste it here because I feel the very action will provoke derision. 

55 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

So what is the 'Irish leaders' take on who started the most recent set of hostilities? You seem to be conflating what the Irish lawyers are doing in regards to the ICJ with placing blame, they've not gone out and made sweeping statements like you about who is to blame for why there's a conflict.

Ireland are intervening with the ICJ case, indicating they believe its merits which is to accuse Israel of perpetrating genocidal acts - I don't know if they've made a lengthy case as to the how and the why Israel/Gaza is where it is - but they appear to be strongly advocating for a side - that's where I am - but granted I have put the blame on Israel myself. I do so because they are in charge there, I mean they are right? They've told the US to do one when it comes to the future of Gaza and that indicates that they are in charge. As the power in the region then my view is that they should exercise restraint, absolutely decapitate Hamas, and smack Iran around too, but there is a huge cost to the civilians of Gaza and they are innocent. Famine is not necessary in any of these aims. 

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Yes and you still fell into the trap

There's a shocking amount of US students falling into traps - it's almost as though they don't give a monkeys.

1 minute ago, bickster said:

You are the sort of person who walks blindly forward in front of a.big neon sign that says trap with an arrow pointing to the trap and just triggers the trap anyway.

What you do and many others is not tip toe round the trap and then YOU become the agent of the opinion you are in opposition to, you are literally doing their work for them. It is just so unintelligent.

Tip toeing around traps? Falter's actions were ludicrous, possibly the worst planned, worst executed trap in recent history, if recognising that is to give him the win then so be it, Falter 1 - everyone else 0. 

That was a horrible second half but we all would take a point if offered it before the game - I had no doubt that Chelsea if they wanted it would be a handful. 7 points clear will look a lot better IF Arsenal beat Spurs today - however as we've learnt in the co-efficient cup, you simply cannot rely on the 'bigger' teams.

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

That was the point of the provocateur though. We're at a point where the police has to step in to preserve peace rather than letting someone with differing opinions to someone else simply walk through a group of people. It's a sad state of affairs for everyone involved, not least the freedoms we have in our democracy. 

Well there's a very obvious way to settle the matter, at the next march Falter should be allowed to cross the road, from A to B, and if he gets attacked doing so then he has a point. 

Just now, magnkarl said:

If a group of demonstrators can't handle a Jew without Israeli flags or anything else going through their protest he's proving his point completely. Do you not get that?

They didn't meet - the police did their job - and on the back of that there was a campaign to get the head of the met sacked. 

26 minutes ago, bickster said:

Falter leads a group of political activists founded as a result of the rise in antisemitism in the UK brought about by the 2014 Israel Gaza conflict.

You see the difference between mine and yours? They campaign on AS not Israel you have to take that at face value unless you have proof otherwise and you don’t. 
Yes he clearly is “Team Israel” as you put it but that does not make what you’ve said any less anti-Semitic.

His actions that day were in support of his perceived right as a Jew to walk through a pro-Palestine March. He was wrong, he didn’t have that right. I’m completely inside with the Policeman’s actions but he wasn’t attempting to walk through that crowd with an Israeli flag, he was attempting to walk through that crowd as an obviously identifiable Jew to stoke up tension and cause conflict, no doubts about it but It was as a Jew not an Israeli or a pro-Israeli supporter

It really is simple but you don’t ever seem to get it

I think the word the policeman used was 'disingenuous' to describe Falter's actions. He was not casually on his way somewhere, he was there to provoke conflict and had been lingering for some time. It is quite a remarkable coincidence that he is also a professional, long standing political activist. I don't choose to afford him, 'his' version of events, at all. But we differ.