John_Lerwill

Good report; two observations. One - that Moore on one occasion tracked back, tackled and retrieved the ball and shot narrowly wide into the side netting whilst under pressure. He looked lively as wel, i.m.o. A goal would sort him out, I think. Two - we must drop this "never win on TV" theme. I remember Villa winning 6-2 against Everton and then 2-0 vs Inter-Milan on TV years ago. Tremendous matches and excellent wins. We can do it again.

Well, Ian, Villa has a letter from Tom Hanks which sums it up... "Go Villa!"

Spurs have bought a few John and Manchester City have a decent youth set up that is producing a couple to play alongside Sven's signings. ... Oh, yes, but when you think about it the number of clubs with genuine future England prospects is very few - even Man U seem to be waning in that category compared to their former production line. Interesting that McClaren recently made overtures about the depth of Villa's youth situation, and how Villa have overtaken Spurs in their potential.

Actually, John, this is turning into another subject altogether - how many other Premiership clubs are there that are promoting English players?! Wth the scarcity around, we might see Villa more than half-filling the England team!!!

Yes, OK, agreed! I think I was speaking figuratively! 1952-1977 (25 years) is a mighty long time without hardly any capped player at all! As it happens, we're still the most capped club in England. But I see your point.

"Back then"? But, John, between 1952 and (?) 1977 we only had one England international - and even he was on his way out when he got his first caps (I'm speaking of Gerry Hitchens of course)! From 1977-on we've not done too badly. But Barry is probably the first Villa player (aside from Gordon Cowans) to have so much responsibility in midfield since Billy Walker. And that in itself is interesting, as all three were/are left-sided players. Four midfielders if you count Steve Hodge.

Pessimist! :winkold:

John - your points are very valid, except that Kenny Swain didn't play at the international level - did he?. Allan Evans is certainly more relevant (I remembered him after!), but Con Martin is the best! Yes, you're absolutely right. I tend to forget him, but he did play in goal and outfield for his country - a most extraordinary combination. Well spotted, John!

D'yer know, that's just what I'd been thinking lately...! It's just the sort of ambition Villa should have - and judging how Liverpool still don't seem to be able to stamp their mark after a good start to the season, he might just feel that time is running out at the Pool... ...and he wants to play next to his mate, doesn't he?!

Interesting! I didn't know that he came as a midfielder. Villa then certainly tried to change his position in a big way, and even more a miracle, perhaps, that he made the England team as a back.

Here's hoping and praying!

Good point - except really that the period is 1935 to 1974! Apart from 37-38 and 56-61, there was not a lot to shout about in that 40 years period. :cry:

Ian - I did make the point to the Trust last year - but it did not meet with an ecstatic response. Many thanks to all for your comments. The 'time-line' and 'hall of fame' ideas are certainly ones that I would like to go with. I'll see what I can do within the club about these matters.

Good report, John, except you - nor anyone else - comments on the report that both Laursen and Carew were both ill before the match, and that's why Laursen went off (and probably explains why he looked so harrassed in the time he was on the pitch). Mind you, more the reason to have brought on Marlon if it was size needed up front. This, plus the fact that MON needs to sign (and acknowledges the fact) at least two more players, is bound to have caused us to be lop-sided against such opposiiton as Liverpool. The next match (at Newcastle) does look like another defeat, but I would think a fit Laursen and a good new full-back would make Newcastle have to fight very hard to get that win. Having said that, I'm impressed by their start. It's very early days yet. Lets keep the optimism boiling - both optimism and negativity are contagious, but I think the former is preferable.

It's got to the point when someone has got to write a chronicle about me writing the chronicle, Lancs... :winkold:

Er...the scarf sez "A PROUD HISTORY", too, dunnit? :winkold:

In principle, that's a fine statement... But I don't think many people do believe it's "poor", Paul. Sorry. You may feel the design is not up to your standards, but that is not what it's all about.

Yes, that's a very good point, mate, but life's not ever perfect! :winkold:

The "debate" also shows the kind of nit-picking that goes one when people are given the chance. :cry: Paulo may be accurate in his evaluation (and I've congratulated him on his article), but it's far from a poor design. I still maintain that most are happy to accept what's there - it's not perfect, but what design is ever perfect? ... But it's near enough excellent i.m.o. At least it gives a link with the past and promotes the future. And it will stand out on the shirts. Anything else is not really worth worrying about.

Well, I'd have thought by the amount of responses and general level of feeling on the subject that it was pretty obvious it does matter, a great deal, to a lot of people. Sir - in the grand scheme of things this has to rate as utter minutia... Yikes - I regard the last years of Doug Ellis of being an important issue, but I think a badge is attracting more attention than that did!!!! :shock: Look, it so happens that I am not over the moon about the design, but it does have certain good qualities i.m.o., and therefore I'm happy to go with it... Us pontificating about fonts and other trivia is not going to change a thing - the club and what the managment's direction is are the two important things, and so far I have no complaints on that much bigger issue. I think they know where they're going, and I believe the direction issue will be solved on the pitch. Let's get a life and move forward. :arrow: Next topic?

Yes it does matter. Its not as good as it could be; its not a matter of taste, but of actual craft and that I find so strange that the club couldn’t come up with something better. I ve said that the idea of committe led design rarely leads to success, and if even a good majority seem to be reasonably happy, I still believe we could have done much better. I am sure they would have been happier that was better done. Paul - I'd already said that was a very good article. Therefore, your points were noted and you have my empathy. But I ask, again... Does it really matter? ... Given that probably most are happy with it. I am not a graphic designer but I have designed a number of other things and know full well that at the proverbial e.o.d. what you've designed - even though it might fulfil all the criteria and aesthetics going - ain't any good unless it's been accepted by most of the important 'users'. I'd say that what's been designed has largely been accepted.

Yes, an excellent article indeed. But (excuse me) - does it matter? I believe a good majority are reasonably happy with the design, and if not, they seem to accept what's put before them. I think that when it's seen on the shirts (from a spectator's distance, in particular) it will be outstanding. An expert in a subject will - understandably - always have a view on the matter, but I don't believe that any design is perfect.

What a sign off! Right to the mark... But the significant thing is that the badge has sparked off so much comment, indicating the emotion that has been contained for so long and is now bursting forth. Peter is spot on in his assessment, but fans have to say what they want to say. So, right, it's all been said - let's go off and win a trophy... an FA Cup wouldn't be bad for starters! 8) ... remembering that Villa went to Wembley the year after the first Cup Final there, let's go there next year in like manner, but this time win it.

Yes, I have to agree that it was very good article. Charlie Wallace, btw, played for two claret and blue sides before he joined Villa. He signed from Crystal Palace (who were c & b until Malcolm Allison changed it in the early 70s or 60s), and his junior league club before that also played in c & b. Wallace was an extremely fine winger, and gained a further England cap after WW1 when many of his age were on the verge of finishing their careers. Frank Moss jnr (happens to be my second cousin, but his family and mine never met!) was said by Tommy Lawton to be the hardest c-h to beat that he ever faced. His dad was a greater player - as will show up in my Villa Chronicles.

A good article - I think that Laursen's injury at Chelsea was also a big setback as he was really beginning to show his real form. But the main issue is that this side will take time to settle. Almost certainly, 2 or 3 more new players will come in in the summer and the pundits seem to be feeling that Villa will show good next season. HOW good remains to be seen (!), but I'm optimistic.