John_Lerwill

“Villa have been a great club, are still a great club, and always will be a great club.” - Fred Rinder, 1936. “Aston Villa was built on class and the slogan that nothing but the best is good enough for Villa.” - Eric Houghton, 1969 So, Randy, what's the best you can offer now you're back! :winkold:

Your issues about business are basically valid, but in a time of housing shortage you speak of knocking down houses and building yet another hotel!! :cry: Alright, "... whatever", you say, to accommodate other approaches. Fine, then let's start with improving the spectacle on the pitch. That's what it's essentially all about. First of all have the playing product working and then do other things. To get the playing bit right needs better management from the top at VP.

They were limited by their ground size, but they had good followings. Preston were league runners-up in the late 50s and Burnley were a top-notch side for many years after WW2. As the man said, TV and other things took over the nation's main attention by the early/mid 50s.

how come we used to get 70k ?? That's going back to the period after WW2 when they expected the Villa to get back to former glories and were glad to get out of the army and enjoy themselves.

It has been proved in the past that the core support is 15k to 17k. Perhaps some enterprising football would win the back more support.

There lies the nub of the issue. It seems to me that RL went into his affair with Villa without properly assessing what was needed. Perhaps he was ill-advised - his early commitment needed to be maintained, though not necessarily at the level it was 3 or 4 years ago. Now it appears as though he hardly cares about what's happening - or will make a re-appearance when AM has successfully set Villa back towards the sixth-place level, or near. Which, as things appear right now, will never be.

You really are desperate to support Randy if you are making this argument. I certainly agree with that!! Though our youth set up is very good, it's rare that someone makes it to a consistent level in the first team. However, I'm wondering if the youth set up does not concentrate enough on developing the character of the players. Not since the 80s have we had youth coming through of sufficient staying power and ability. The Moore brothers looked so brilliant early on, but what happened to them? And they were not the only ones. It may well be that Villa could get back to the Prem within 2 or 3 years, but what level will the cluib have been reduced to? I can see Villa becoming like a latter-day West Brom if things go on as they are. What a come down from the greatness of the pre-1935 era and the early 80s.

Yes, we've impressed fairly well against two relegation cadidates this season. Perhaps that may prove that relegation is not going to happen (this time at least)?

It's a strange thing, but I joined IBM in 1966 and then Chrysler in 1969 (until 1975) and have to say that those were my best years as an employee, working for those US companies - I went freelance in 1977. It seems as though times have changed.

Thanks for that Naz! I'm feeling like one of the family again! Not sure whether I'll be able to make it though ... if not, I'll be there in spirit!

Wot about those who've done 60 years??!!

Your underlying argument, OutByEaster, has merit of course. The issue is, though, that Randy doesn't have enough partly because so much has been wasted as a result of poor management - the point made by 'mykeyb'. Too much reign was gievn to MON and there have been so many legal settlements he's had to pay for, a lot of them unnecessary. Therefore (asks 'mykeyb') how can trust be put in a chairman who seems not able to manage? With the news that Villa appear to be chasing Owen Hargreaves (having let Makoun go) I am very worried for Villa.

You're close to my feelings on the matter - particularly what I've highlighted above. However, in RL's eyes he may well have a Plan B - one that says "Retrench, use existing resources, then re-build from there". Problem is, that could lead to relegation - and loss of considerable income apart from losing status unnecessarily. Villa needs a chairman who fully understands sport - definitely - though I think the main problem is that RL has put his trust in PF, a man without any relevant experience. It's no coincidence that both Steve Stride and the previous CEO left. It would be nice to have a chairman who understands Villa and its supporters - but maybe that's asking for a lot! However wishing RL to leave can leave us in the same position as before. Wanting someone out does not mean a suitable replacement may be available, as was said before Doug left.

That can't be enough can it surely. The height of Aston Villa fans expectations has to be higher than that. Personally I want the club to be the best it can be and mid table mediocrity simply isn't the best this great club can do. Shit or shine I'll be there as I have been for more years than I'm caring to remember but the worst thing I could do, or any of us, is accept less than what this club deserves and should indeed question those running the club and push them if it appears they are not striving to get to the heights this great club is capable of getting to. Jack Urry once gave his explanation about how Villa came to be so successful in those pre-WW1 days of yore ... Apart from the technical competence of the directors, he said it was the wish to do things right by the patronage. Though they sometimes made mistakes, the board otherwise used every means to do their best for the fans, both in keeping Villa at the top and in the provision of right entrance pricing etc etc For me, the big factor was that the board and George Ramsay were imbued in the club. They had developed with the club and thought nothing else but about the club. And the directors did it for free!!

It might be the recession, it might be capitalism, but it's wrong. Attaboy!! THAT is the pertinent point ... Is it something to do with the American way of doing things?

Dear Doug ... :-)

Well, we've even had the situation just now where something up to £1,500 was asked to pay for the restoration of McGregor's grave, and the club passed on that one - supporters are now expected to fund the bill.

That's one view, Peter, but I would suggest that in 2006 we simply expected the club to start competing again ... expenditures, certainly, but it seems to me that MON was given too much rope in that regard. And now there's the re-think - to the other extreme. There's something 1984-ish about it. Was Doug so bad? Yes, exactly. I saw this coming in the autumn of 2009 when I was there. I was in a meeting wtih the CEO and CFO when long faces were pulled at me suggesting that perhaps £5,000-£10,000 needed to be spent to restore some of the club's artefacts (in preparation for the talked-of museum - one reason for my being recruited). This was 12 months after Randy had spent £50,000 on a huge number of photographs that I and another had to spend the best part of 15 months sorting out to find little of great value. My sacking - in the light of a sudden brake on ependiture optimism - was not too surprising. The reasons they used to get rid of me were (as has been shown by the tribunal) very spurious - and distasteful. Yes, but that's a hard standard to live up to, isn't it? Well said.

In contrast, Barry'sBoots, Alex Ferguson seems to think highly of McLeish... Is Sir Alex understanding of European football? I would think so. No, McLeish would not be my choice either, but perhaps RL has taken advive from Sir Alex?

The words of the opening post are compelling ... They demand attention, particularly as those of us who have been through many smelly scenarios before have learnt that our initial feelings are not that far wrong. However, please let me say this ... Randy Lerner did a lot of right things when he came in to the club. Some of those things needed to be done anyway, others were done from a business perspective. For whatever reason, they were improvements. My take on the current situation is that Randy is having to cut his cloth based on how things are in the PL. He cannot (now) financially compete with the top 4 or 5 for starters. The fact that McLeish beat Villa in the FL Cup last season on their way to winning the trophy says something ... And it's my feeling that in a bigger environment like VP, McLeish may well be able to do bigger things. After all, if he can motivate Small Heath to win a trophy he's almost achieved a miracle! Cup trophy winning may well be what Villa need to turn to to get into Europe, as well as top-half security. It may well be that McLeish can achieve that to provide consistency and a springboard for the target that Randy may well have had before - the top-4. All that remains to be seen - but at least give the man till Christmas to see how it begins to shape up! Let's get behind the team ... that is what Villa supporters do. Up the Villa!

You know, people are talking about this affair as being a 'debate', but I see too many people throwing in their arguments based on emotion rather than fact and the reality of what has happened this season. Now - read my lips! Houllier is NOT faultless, but where the team is now is recoverable, and he can achieve it. Furthermore he has the vision to take Villa lot further than MON could have done. Those are my final words ... exit and out.

Sorry, John, but constantly citing the Chelsea match is clutching at straws. Chelsea really were shockingly poor - witness their next result against Wolves - and yet we came within a whisker let them sneak a win. I think the preceding and subsequent results against Man C and Sunderland are more an indication of where we are right now. Have you ever heard that how the opposition plays can have an affect? Villa's tactics were much praised for that match - the only defficiency was the now regular one of letting in goals in the last 10 minutes.

Have a look at how many games redknapp was in charge of before they spent a penny and have a look at how many of those games he won. Excuse after excuse after excuse. I have to agree, I really think it's been a disgrace. We have had a pretty much full strength side in the past 4 games which has been tactically poor more than anything else. If anything, since we have began to get senior players back we've played even poorer. The last TWO games, mate ... come on!

I agree with this John. I do see BJ's point of view as well. It can only be other problems for so long, at some point Houllier is just continuing not to work and could take us down. A new manager always has to stamp his authority on the club, the players as professionals have to take this on board. Its obvious that Houllier will change how training works etc thats his prerogative as the boss. If players are kicking up a fuss because its not the MON way they are used too, then we shouldn't just pamper to them and continue to do everything the MON way, thats just not productive either. Our defence played well last season (well the first part of it) now they are shit, should Houllier just go back to the MON way to keep players happy and improve our defence? Thats nor productive and damaging in the long run, as its doin something the way of the ex manager, the two styles will class even more down the line. Its obvious MON's control and persona had a massive impact on the way things were done. Our current league position puts more pressure on Houllier, if they didn't like how things were being run but we were higher up they would have to put up with it. I would much prefer our manager to try and do what he thinks is correct, rightly or wrongly, players should not decide anything that important. This a long list of ridiculous injuries has not helped. But we should just continue as Houllier struggles to get to grasp of things and get his point across? No, at some point it will have to change, i hope its not too late. Jez, you're right ... couldn't have put it better meself. On your last para, it is touch and go, but with 17 games left and (let's face it) any 3 of the current bottom 7 or even 10 could go down, there's still enough time.

GH has shown quite a few things, hampered by what he has inherited. Some have said that he has tried to change things too quickly, and maybe that is a fair criticism. With the injury list he has had it's not surprising that there was a severe slippage ... the Chelsea match should have given us hope ... let's see how it goes.