MikeMcKenna

I have a different slant on this. In my opinion the rot started back in 2007 and had fully set in by January 2008. Things were very rosy on the playing side but off the field it wasn't so good - there was no business planning or financial controls. The then CEO was a very accomplished guy; Richard Fitzgerald. Prior to Aston Villa, FitzGerald worked for 18 years in various senior roles at IMG. They included chief operating officer and head of New Media of TWI, the world’s largest independent producer and distributor of sports TV programmes. In other words he had experience and a great track record as a senior executive. However in January 2008, after just 13 months at Villa, having been appointed on merit etc, he suddenly "resigned". I was told by someone who was definitely ITK at the time, that Fitzgerald was trying to bring in proper business planning and financial controls. However MON saw it as "interference" - Lerner agreed, Fitzgerald "resigned" with immediate effect receiving £775,000 in compensation. FitzGerald on leaving Villa for several months worked as a consultant to the owners of Manchester City FC. In August 2008 he was appointed as CEO for Racing UK where he is still now. Lets be clear, Lerner needed a commercial guy like Fitzgerald for business & financial planning, as he didn't (still doesn't) have this experience himself or the neccessary business skills. He should have had a joined up plan that forecast various outcomes however..... He decided to wing it and hope that MON could achieve CL qualification. He had no Plan B if the gamble failed. As late as April 2010 in an interview with The Independent he said: "The way Martin [O'Neill] has developed the team, though – and the investment we've made in our training ground – should give us an honest shot at competing." Very shortly after we were out of the FA Cup and had failed to achieve a CL place. In May Lerner appointed the 32 year old (then) Paul Faulkner, the former MBNA Relationship Manager, who described himself as a "football geek" but had no experience as a senior board level executive or track record that merited his appointment other than being someone of whom Lerner said: ""Paul was someone I could talk to about ideas and who could then go about putting those ideas into action," says Lerner. "He enjoyed the abstract: thinking about how to grow and how to develop a culture within a business." So he made him boss of his plaything Aston Villa FC and then reputedly MON was informed that Faulkner would work with him on future player financial dealings, setting budgets and negotiating fees and salaries. And that players had to be sold but that only a limited amount of the proceeds could be used for player purchases. The rest is history; MON walked claiming constructively dismissal due to breach of contract and was paid a sizeable amount of compensation. If you believe it was MON irresponsible spending, in reality it was all about the monetary controls or lack of them which was all down to Lerner. With hindsight he realised Fitzgerald was right but it was too late and he had blown hundreds of millions! We are now suffering because Lerner had loads of money but not enough and BECAUSE he had absolutely NO business acumen!

What if Faulkner as CEO (the person ultimately in charge of strategy) said; "You can have £20 million to spend but..... The player salary budget must not exceed £xxxx ((say 55 % of forecast income) and that any new player must not earn more than (say) £30k per week" Quite obviously such strictures would have a massive effect and force Lambert to look around the bargain basement. I would say that these are reasonable assumptions and would make Faulkner as culpable as Lerner.

Sadly a dream that will never be fulfilled Peter :-(

Yes the worst!

Well maybe that sums up why I perceive you are less stressed than many? If you are prepared mentally to accept relegation for a long term plan I can see why you still so avidly back PL. Personally, in light of my being no spring chicken, i wouldn't relish the idea of spending years in the Championship as Lambert/Lerners attempt to break the mould from a position of weakness.

I agree that things have to change, I just think the pace of that change is too fast. Would you be be so accepting if the "viscious circle" could only be broken at the price of relegation?

This is a completely pointless poll. Under Ellis we were totally f**** and going nowhere and would probably have gone down under his ownership. He was an awful owner and even if it was possible to go back, I think my love of Villa would be at an end. Lerner did as promised when he took over, invested large sums etc etc but his gamble failed and we are now going nowhere and could go down under his ownership. The poll asks us to choose between a rock and hard place - Neither is my answer.

That's a bit rude isn't it :-)

So you accept that "high earners" are an issue and that their disposal is required because of financial "restrictions" on salaries?

Are you seriously suggesting that the belief that reducing the "wage bill" is a "fan thing" or even a myth?

Richard I have to admit that after my gut reaction to the Bradford result calling for PL to go on reflection I accept much of what you say about chopping and changing. However I still do not understand your blind faith and would take issue in part with some of your comments: "That and just buying quick fix stop gap players here as their last big pay check." When a club is facing the devastation of relegation sometimes "quick fix stop gap players" are necessary - in some ways Bent was just that - without him we could have gone down. Isn't it less to do with quick fix and more to with Lerner/Faulkner's quest to dramatically reduce our wage bill to make up for Lerners previous financial gamble? "For me he is still the right man, he has a good record in his career to date of building something for the future. He is a young manager who sees the merit of not buying stop gap quick fix players. The type who will add no value to the club, just take away from the value of the club." When I employ a new manager I do so in the belief that they will always add "value" (as does any business) but in the case of a football adding only players because they fit the criteria of low salary/high future potential can lead to ruin if those players are party to our relegation and destroy the value of the club. "..... sees benefit in buying those players who will improve and develop, as the club does and may stay with he club or if they don't then their value will help he club when they leave. Like it or not but this is the market we are in right now and given that then for me there is no better manager." "players who will improve and develop" need experienced quality around them to "improve and develop" The situation "we are in right now" means that the board/Lambert cannot afford to be dogmatic. The choice is not just between "stop gap players" and low cost/high potential players. There is little if any evidence that a premier league club with such a high number of inexperienced young players can survive in the top flight. If we were stable, mid table, consolidating and made the changes in this direction over several seasons I would agree with you but the "revolution" is being attempted too quickly.

If you are not just arguing for the sake of it and accept that ultimately here it is all a matter of opinion, however informed, what do you think "obviously limited" means? Do you think he could sign a player on 40,50,60k and if so where is the evidence?

We are odds on - most bookies have us at 10/11 with only QPR and Reading on worse odds.

I wouldn't claim to know whether its 25, 30, 35k etc but all the summer signings suggested that its low and a wage cap has been imposed.

Peter I only listed half the remaining games to illustrate that we are going to find it very difficult to gain momentum and turn the tide. I do not deny that I have been very pessimistic but sincerely think it will be hard based on current form to get more than say 4-8 points which would put us on 27 and IMO would find us still in bottom 3.

After the results we have had in the last 4/6 weeks I am amazed at your optimism - I assume you think our form is going to improve dramatically given that we are bottom of the form table. Losses at home to Wigan & Southampton and away to League 2 Bradford must tell you something.

That's ridiculous we can see with our eyes that wages are clearly a factor when it comes to signing players.

How is it "unfair"? The facts speak for themselves, Lambert signed players who would all be earning very low wages compared to the norm for the premier league. He has made it clear publicly in the last few days that he is under financial constraints. We do not need to know what's going "on behind the scenes" to be be aware of the "restrictions"

Looking at the next 8 games, I cannot see us stopping the rot any time soon. I doubt we will get more than 4 points out 24 so we could be down by the end of March :-( Aston Villa v Newcastle L Everton v Aston Villa L Aston Villa v West Ham D Arsenal v Aston Villa L Aston Villa v Man City L Reading v Aston Villa L Aston Villa v QPR W Aston Villa v Liverpool L Can anyone see a light at the end of this awful dark tunnel?

If this poll was run afresh it would be interesting to see what the consensus is now.

Edit double post

I have just frozen my nuts off watching our piss poor team lose to an even more piss poor team but talking about Curbishley is **** ridiculous!! I am not going to defend Lambert but FFS .,.. But Curbishley would be no better! There is no point talking about PL going - our only hope is to pray that three other clubs perform worse. However Lerner has well & truly **** our club and either needs to invest or sell!!

When Randy Lerner took over Aston Villa he said: "I'm what you call the custodian. People like me come and go. The fans will always own Aston Villa because they never leave" I believe, like many he has failed to look after our club. If he ever had any real affection for the club as the current "custodian, he should accept he will never recover all his investment, actively seek a new owner who will fix the mess he has created and then..... GO! Now I am off to VP for another feast of football! - must be mad! ;-)

The perception is often as important as the reality. "Jumping up & down" may not make much difference to the players but it sends a message to fans who have travelled 100s of miles on a shite Tuesday night!

I also went to the game, was amazed that PL seemed rooted to the bench and I can't actually remember him getting up to have a go etc. I couldn't see his face but it did seem that he was resigned to a shock result! It wouldn't surprise me if he walks!