What is Man?

[BillyShears]

But you still do it as a way to keep at peace with your 'self' because your conscience won't let you NOT do it.

Very good point.

For evil to exist all that is required is for good (wo)men to do nothing (or something like that)

[BOF]

Well I do selfless acts every day, but I'm a mug and probably shouldn't :?

[Santa_Rosa]

Well I do selfless acts every day, but I'm a mug and probably shouldn't

No you don't. You do them because your conscious wants you to and would bug you if you didn't. And you're not a mug, you're a good person who listens to his good conscience.

How to create a good conscience, if it is created, is another thing altogether mind.

Anyhow, I've got to do some work, else my conscience won't let me pick my wage packet up

[BOF]

You do them because your conscious wants them to and would bug you if you didn't.

Some yes, some no. Those acts do exist - the ones that would bug you, but there are others you choose to do purely for the benefit of the other person - and it wouldn't bug me at all if I didn't do them. Say something as small as letting someone out of a junction. Something I can choose to do or not to do. It doesn't make me feel good by doing it, and it doesn't make me feel bad if I don't (especially if it's a Merc or a BMW!). So while you are right that there are things your conscience makes you do, and they are not strictly altruistic because you get a sense of well-being from them, but you are not acknowledging the acts where you don't get any well-being, you don't benefit in any way and it only benefits the other person. They do exist, they do happen daily imo.

[Nigel]

Say something as small as letting someone out of a junction. Something I can choose to do or not to do. It doesn't make me feel good by doing it, and it doesn't make me feel bad if I don't (especially if it's a Merc or a BMW!). So while you are right that there are things your conscience makes you do, and they are not strictly altruistic because you get a sense of well-being from them, but you are not acknowledging the acts where you don't get any well-being, you don't benefit in any way and it only benefits the other person. They do exist, they do happen daily imo.

You could argue that by asking a simple question....Do you get annoyed if people dont let you out?

If the answer is no you are a saint, if yes it could be said the reason you let them out is because you deem this the correct act for this situation, a kind of give and take that will be expected back in the future!

[BOF]

Nope. I'm not silly enough to think that by letting people out I'm more likely to be let out in future. I don't get annoyed if I'm not let out either. It'll happen eventually.

[Santa_Rosa]

But it's your conscience (self, mind, soul whatever) that tells you to do these acts everytime BOF, good or bad, big or small, so you must be doing them to appease it surely? The old addage of do unto others as you would have done to you (which is the reason for letting people out at junctions I expect) is based on this too. It feels nice to be let out, so you let others out and on some level, doing something that makes others feel nice, affects you positively. If you don't do it one time, I bet you are more likely to do it twice the next day to make up for it. I know I would be.

You don't like Merc drivers (and I know it's just an example ), so your consicence gets a little boost by denying them something that you value personally. You're affected positively by doing something negative - which was my point about why it's always worth examining your reasons for your actions. These Merc drivers are human beings like us too, and the sooner you educate your conscience to realise this, the better the world will be :winkold:

Now if there was a SHA minikit in the back, that's a different story

[BOF]

Now if there was a SHA minikit in the back, that's a different story

But you'd have let him out before realising it

[Nigel]

Nope. I'm not silly enough to think that by letting people out I'm more likely to be let out in future. I don't get annoyed if I'm not let out either. It'll happen eventually.

Alright then ask yourself this, who would you be more likely to let out in front of you, a good looking girl, an elderly gentleman, or a car full of hoods?

If there is any difference between your choice it could be argued that subconsciously it not a selfless act, as it should not matter who was in that car to influence the act!

I am only playing devils advocate here by the way as i would like to agree with your ideals, however when the word 'subconscious' comes in there can never be a correct answer IMO!

[Santa_Rosa]

I don't get annoyed if I'm not let out either.

Oh I do. You must be a saint BOF :winkold:

[Santa_Rosa]

Now if there was a SHA minikit in the back, that's a different story

But you'd have let him out before realising it

Aye, good point!

[bromsgrove_avfc]

You cant win this argument. For instance I give a direct debit anonymously to charity (Ok now Ive blown it because Ive told somebody although I could still argue that none of you know me.)

Up until today nobody knew I did. Not even my wife. I don't do it to make myself feel better because:

1. Im skint at the end of some months and could probably do with the money.

2. Ive been doing it that long I never actually even think about it.

I do it because I feel the charity need the money and I can help is some small way.

But now I've lost the argument because your all going to claim Ive told you about it to make myself feel better when the truth is I couldnt care less what you all think of me?

[Grant(aka_eddy)]

I do it because I feel the charity need the money and I can help is some small way.

reading your post carefully the crux of your motivation is above.

So it isn't necessarily to make you feel better, but is to stop you feeling bad about not helping and therefore becomes not a selfless act.

People do it because it is preferable to them then the alternative and opposite option. You may find downfalls in doing it, but the fact you continue to do so means the positives outweigh the negatives otherwise you'd stop.

[Santa_Rosa]

So it isn't necessarily to make you feel better, but is to stop you feeling bad about not helping and therefore becomes not a selfless act.

Spot on Grant. Doesn't mean what you are doing isn't a wonderful thing though. But if you think it's being done with no concession at all to your conscience you are wrong IMO.