barry'sboots

Don't remember him doing this last year after, I think it was, Corluka replaced Zokora who he did roast? I think Spurs are a good side. Not sure about their keeper - he can make mistakes but so can Brad (see the Burnley goal). I think Young is better than all of their right backs. Warnock is at least as good as Assou Ekotto (?). Our CB pairing is better than theirs, although I think Woodgate is awesome. They just never seem to be able to get a run as a pair. Out wide Lennon and Krankjar are a good match for Young and Milner and probably a slightly better balance. Up front Carew and Gabby again are probably on a par with Crouch and Defoe IF Carew turns up and wants to play and that is a big if this season. CM is a key area and I think the energy of Palacios with the guile and strength of Huddlestone could be too much for Stan and Sidders. Equally, there are a lot of similarities with Chelsea's Essien and Lampard who didn't seem to run in beyond Stan and exploit his lack of energy to cover back. I'm hoping for the return of Nigel to give us more energy in here but can't see it. I think this is a key area and could see it going either way. I just hope MON is prepared to be a bit radical with his substitutions (and I don't mean bringing Heskey on or taking full backs off) if we are struggling to get into our stride otherwise it could be a very frustrating early evening.

He only went to 4-5-1 because JC got injured and he didn't want to play Marlon. I think it was the arrival of Emile that saw him revert back to 4-4-2.

As a point of record 'CrackpotForeigner' i don't hate O'Neill. Indeed i find him entertaining with his funny manerisms before and after match interviews. I have however questioned many of his signings, which some have worked and others, well, have disappointingly failed miserably. You can probably say that of most managers, even the great Fergie and Wenger! I do however dislike the way O'Neill sets out our team to play and in my humble opinion, he doesn't make the best of who he has signed for one reason or another. When he finds a winning formular, he changes the team the following week and quite evidently has his 'favourites,' born out with his treatment of Reo-Coker! I also believe that with a more progressive thinking manager, we would have a better squad of players with more guile and technical ability with the amount of money O'Neill has been furnished with and just maybe, we might have been better in Cup and European matches as a consequence? Gained more success maybe? Nevertheless, it is more than fair to say that we have improved since O'Neill has become our manager, but then again, that would be the very least we would expect with the money spent! I just feel that O'Neill's system of play belongs more to the coaching book of the 1980-90s rather than being reflective of today's style of football. Thats why i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can and we do need a new manager who will instill a different type of system of play into our squad. I would like to see us playing a more diamond formation with the quality players to play that way. This would leave us less open through the middle and i dont think our wingers are good enough to carry a consistant threat, just as i don't think our central midfield partnership are good enough at the moment to allow us to play two out and out wingers! Only my humble opinion of course and as always, there will be many who will disagree with me. I just want the best for our club and although we are indeed in very safe hands with O'Neill, i think we could at, the very least, see more entertaining football coming from our team, with the same, or indeed, even more success! for what its worth on here, i can empathise with much of what you write.I too feel similar with your explanation of the Midfield & wingers. It seems to me the cm's are the scapegoats and the wide players get away with murder. I am not an advocate of removing O'Neill, but I am living in hope he will change his view. Many thanks for your considered reply 'Tro.' I don't disagree with much of what you said. I do, however, think he has built a decent squad but, like you, don't think he uses it to its maximum capability. I am not sure your diamond suggestion would work with our players BUT it could be worth a try. Anything has to be better than sticking with the same front 6 and same formation that we have for the last 5 or 6 away games. I can take losing/drawing with poor teams if I thought MON was trying to turn it around and find a solution to our poor performances. He didn't for the last 15 games of last season and he hasn't done for our away games this season. It feels like groundhog day to me!

I think he did a great job at Leicester. No doubts. He came to Celtic at a time when they had a cash injection which he used to buy the likes of Sutton, Lennon and Hartson, which was the catalyst for them to get on a level playing field with Rangers so not so sure that we are comparing apples with apples here.

Not sure that all of the players feel that together. MON has done a good job and built a great squad on a limited budget (relative to Citeh, Spurs and three of the top four). He can motivate players, apparently, and they want to come and work with him. He speaks well and is a good ambassador for the club. But he is woeful at showing any flexibility in his tactics, team or formation. Burnley is the sixth or seventh away game in a row where our front six have just not delivered anything and he sits idly by and does nothing to change it or shake it up. If he hasn't got the options then that is his fault - he has been the manager for long enough now - although I think he has. This is where a good manager should be earning his corn IMO. He should be trying to make things happen. I can't believe we have had such a poor run and he hasn't even tried a 4-5-1 once, after the comparative record of away games with 4-5-1 vs away games with 4-4-2 over the last 18 months. It might not work but surely it has to be worth a try? I can't believe, if he is playing a 4-4-2, he dropped Nigel after the Bolton game for Stan. I know many think Stan is our best player (I don't, but thats another topic) but it hasn't worked with him in there in a 4-4-2 away from home since January this year so, surely, NRC has to be worth a shot? Fantasy football management i.e. picking your best (or should I say favourite) players will not win us games - we need to find the best team that works for us in a given set of circumstances. Does MON think our away form will just dramatically change after almost a year of poor performances? Saturday was predictable. Many of us said it would be a poor performance and it was. If we can foresee it why can't a "top 6" manager and try to do something about it. And before someone says that a point at Burnley is a good point, I am not arguing about that. It is the performances that concerns me and the seeming neverending run of performances at that level.

Taken in isolation, this result would not be bad. But the performance was very poor and it is the sixth or seventh very bad performance on the road in a row and our manager doesn't seem to have a clue what to do to change it so this doesn't happen in the next away game?? Even MON must be tempted to try something different for the trip to Manure? Thought about 4-5-1 Martin - might be worth a shot?

I fancy us to beat Spurs. Interesting to see what team MON puts out. I would go with the Bolton side but he will never drop Stan. Having said this, I can see Stan having a decent game against Spurs as they are a footballing side that will play 4-4-2 and don't really have a CM that will get in behind him like Ireland did for Citeh. I think our front 4 can dominate their defence whilst our defence is good enough to nullify their front 4. My only concern is our CM. What's with all the Spurs hatred? I, like most Villa fans, dislike Redknob, but apart from that I like Spurs. Always look to play good football and are good to watch. I would take them over our other rivals every day as one of my favourite other teams.

I don't think the sarcasm is aimed at Heskey is it. More the tactical genius that is MON!

Or just a proper team?? What would you do if you were MON? Will be very surprised if he does anything.

Petrov fans .... better ball retention????

It;s your opinion and for what it's worth I agree with you to some extent but who would I rather see in the starting line up? Steve Sidwell, suits our play so much more, 2 hard working, energetic, hard running central midfielder can retain possesion and win the ball in midfield and let our wide players and forward players do what they can do. Petrov just slows the game down for us. I litterally never see Sidwell do anything though... he doesn't do anything in attack and anything in defence, he just feels like a waste of space and he's had his chance to impress MON and he hasn't really done it. His miss from the rebound from Milner's penalty two weeks ago just somes up Steve Sidwell for me... just not good enough. I know people don't like hearing this, but what we're effectively doing right now is replacing Barry with Sidwell which is why it's severely weakened our midfield. You just can't do that and the longer MON insists shoe-horning Sidwell into the side, the longer it'll be before we make some real progression. Petrov was our best player last season and has shown how good he can be, Sidwell has not yet shown that ability and I hope I'm wrong, but my mind is pretty much made up regarding Steve Sidwell. I'm with you AVFC PoB. NRC and Sidders for me. That Bolton performance shows for me what a high energy athletic CM pairing can do as a platform for our front four. It is by far the best performance I have seen at VP this calendar year. And Bolton weren't great but then neither are a lot of the teams we have played recently but we haven't got anywhere near to dominating them in the way we did a couple of weeks ago. I can see MON switching back to Stan, which will be a disgrace IMO and a real blow to the principle that you play well you own the shirt, and us producing another turgid display as we have in the last four away games. I hope that I am wrong but I am not expecting much.

Spot on. I'd agree with this wholeheartedly. I think the Bolton game demonstrated fully what an energetic CM pairing can achieve. I would also agree that Stan is technically better than NRC but I think NRC's athleticism more than compensates for this and trumps it, especially in the last 30 minutes. I also think Stan's ball retention slows us down and this can be a problem against the poorer teams as they have a chance to regroup rather than facing Ash & Gab one on one when the ball is got forward quicker. Having said that, as you rightly say, Stan does play a strong part in a 4-5-1 formation. I wouldn't mind seeing this against Burnley with the option of Delph or Carew for Sidders in the last 30 minutes depending upon how the 4-5-1 is working and the score at that point, although I think MON will play JC after the Bolton game.

So you're already arguing with a decision that hasn't been taken yet? :winkold: No. He's stating what he thinks will happen - and we probably all suspect that MON will do this - but saying that he disagrees with that approach. Not that difficult to follow and I agree with him on both scores.

I'm with you AVFC-PoB. I don't think Stan is a great footballer any more - he seems to have left his best days behind him in Glasgow. He is the most cultured of our CM'ers but is so lacking in energy compared to most top CM'ers. He can play in a 4-5-1 although I personally would prefer to see Delph in there to give us some attacking thrust. The difference in energy and ultimately performance on Saturday was marked from anything I have seen with Stan's involvement over the last 11 months.

I would like to see Delph play with NRC behind him. I was disappointed that MON missed the chance to do this for the last 20 minutes on Saturday. I think it would be unfair on Sidders to do this in the Burnley game, although again 20 minutes from the end I could see it if we were comfortable. Won't happen though, as I can't see MON not starting with Petrov and, if he doesn't, certainly not bringing on Delph before him. I would love to be shocked by MON though. As for the plan B, I think the 4-5-1 should be our plan B and 4-4-2 if we start with 4-5-1, as it was against Scum. I think it does change the dynamic massively, freeing up the wingers to push on with the 4-3-3 and giving the opposition CBs a massive challenge. Not a big fan of the diamond, particularly when we have two good wingers.

He showed on Saturday what a good CB he is playing alongside another experienced good CB and with two full backs either side and a strong and energetic CM'er in front of him. It was always going to take him tie to settle in to the Premier League and with an inexperienced partner, in Davies (or poor partner in Knight), a right back playing left back and a CM'er playing RB with no cover in front of him typically for the last 30 minutes of the game this was always going to be a difficult ask!!

I, and a few others, have been calling for NRC and Sidders to get a chance after their Peace Cup pairing and some of the shocking performances this year. A number of VT'ers came back and said that was a crap idea, that the two couldn't retain the ball without Stan, that the Peace Cup was a joke and that this selection was hypothetical. Well, we have had last had the chance to see it and it worked well - much better than any performance in the last month or so? I saw one post that it was all about the front 4 and that anybody could have played in that CM yesterday. I think this is very wrong. NRC and Sidders provide a hard working platform that allows the wingers to go out and do their stuff. I would be really disappointed if MON tampers with the CM to accomodate Stan after Saturday's performance. Confidence must be up.

Haven't seen much from the NRC knockers in this thread. One chance in his rightful position (in the last 18 months!) and all of those knockers who say he gives away possession all the time are seemingly accepting that he deserves that DCM role. So it seems, at last IMO, that on this thread we are all looking at NRC + 1 or 2?? For me you can't change that pairing if you stick to the principles of play well, retain your position. I also think that, if we are playing 4-4-2 NRC and Sidders are the more complimentary pairing. High energy, hard working and, when necessary, interchangeable (Sidders covered when NRC made his driving runs). As a pairing I believe that they form a better launchpad for our attacking four - their hard working approach allows more freedom for the wingers to push on. I also think that Petrov slows our game down a bit with his claimed "better retention" as he always turns back and this gives the opposition a chance to re-group. If MON does revert to Petrov for the Burnley game I will personally be really disappointed. I, like a few on VT, have been calling for a look at an NRC/Sidders combo and got a lot of stick for what this would deprive us of ball retention. A number said that this was just ifs and buts and hypothetical because they had never played an Premier League game together. Yesterday destroyed both of these arguments. And Bolton were only crap because we made them look crap. They were higher in the league than Wolves, Blackburn and Wet Spam until yesterday. Those calling for a NRC/Petrov combo, I will repeat what was thrown at me - this is just ifs and buts and hypothetical whereas we now know NRC and Sidders works! On a more serious note, I don't Stan has the mobility to play that attacking role in a 4-4-2. We do still need Stan though, as the high energy game of Sidders meant that he was tiring with 20-30 minutes left and, in a more competitive game, should have been subbed earlier IMO. I enjoyed seeing Delph come on but was disappointed that this wasn't for longer and that he wasn't given a chance to play with NRC and see what he could do with an experienced hard working DCM as opposed to Gardner, who has gone backwards IMO. Similar with Carlos who did well yesterday. Collins is unlucky to have missed a game when he has been arguably MOTM the last few games but this is the sort of pressure that I want to see with our squad - play well you stay in but screw up and there is now real talent sitting on the bench waiting to take your place. However, whilst I would be disappointed for Carlos this would be less so than the CM'ers as the defence has actually been playing consistently well over the last 4 or 5 games unlike the front 6.

I thought we were good today. Bolton aren't great but they are no worse than Wet Spam, Wolves and Blackburn? Great to see two proper full backs. Carlos slotted in really well and looked a better CB playing alongside an experienced partner. Jimmy and Ash both had as good a game as I've seen them play this season. The CM pair worked excellently - NRC was very efficient and gave little away and Sidders ran his nuts off and they interchanged well when NRC did drive forward. Strikers worked well and as a pair. I want to see the same team go to Burnley and will be very disappointed if MON makes any changes. Players in keep their shirt until they have an off day??

Its not quite that simple though because MON was given a big transfer budget on his arrival so you are not really comparing apples with apples. Suit yourself. How are you going to attempt to discredit his fantastic jobs with Wycombe and Leicester then? I find that an immature response. I wasn't trying to discredit his time at Celtic, I was merely pointing out a fact - would you disagree with my point - and contributing to the debate. I think he did an excellent job at Leicester. It was a different period in football history where there was certainly less money around, less foreign players and, I believe, you could get further in those days with a well organised side and good team spirit. I think you have to be smarter nowadays. I like MON and I certainly think that, within the budget he has had, he has done an excellent job building a good squad. I don't know whether he had the budget to go out and get an extra striker/ACM - that is the one area that I think we are still a player short but Randy may be saying you have to leave that for Jan or next summer? I have no doubt that we have a good squad though - I see us beat Plop away, Chelski at home and, IMO, we should have beat Citeh. So he has done very well on that score. My concern his lack of flexibility. I would call it tactical naivety but some would say that this is disrespectful to MON. I disagree. He doesn't respond to situations early enough if at all. I am not expecting to finish anywhere particularly as long as we are in the top half. We are probably finishing above our spending/wage bill over the last couple of seasons and that is good. What I am expecting is my manager to give the team that he has built the best chance to finish as high as possible. He does not react to things - poor performances, players tiring, poor formation, opposition tactics - anywhere near often or quickly enough. We have played the last four away games and been pretty poor - I don't see any reaction/changes by MON to try and inspire a return to form (much the same as the last 15 games of last season). If MON doesn't think that we have the squad for it or that some of the players don't have the experience then that is his fault by now - he has had the chance to shape his squad! NRC is the classic example for me. As I've said on a number of posts I would play him every time because I want a scrapper and battler in at the heart of my CM BUT I understand that MON doesn't really fancy him. So why keep him?? Why not sell him last summer and replace him with another genuine option. Ditto Gardner? We have a great run last season playing 4-5-1 away from home. We beat Plop the first away game of this season with 4-5-1 and actually prove it can work at home with Fulham as well. We then play four pretty poor performances in a row away from home. Why doesn't he give the 4-5-1 a shot?? Even if it is in the second half of the Wolves or West Ham game, just to try something different. Its not as if JC is making himself undroppable at the minute. I don't expect any position I just expect my team/its players to be set up in a way to optimise its potential and given a chance. If that happens and we finish 8th or lower then so be it. My frustration at the minute is that I think we could be significantly better if MON would just try a few things and shake it up some times.

Its not quite that simple though because MON was given a big transfer budget on his arrival so you are not really comparing apples with apples.

Partially agree with this. I think we could break in to the top 4. I am not necessarily expecting us to but I think we could. I thought we could have last season. MON and the team got us into a tremendous position but then MON blew it, IMO, by his poor team selections and tactics. There are numerous examples of this - going to Plop with a 4-4-2 when they were on fire, not bringing Stan of or supplementing him in games where we were up but drew/lost (Man U A, West Ham H, Stoke H) and others - 15 games, 2 wins and no discernible action to remedy this/try something new. This has carried on this season. Bizarre selections (Wigan and West Ham); no response to poor performances (Blackburn, Wolves, Wet Spam, Wigan); success with 4-5-1 at Plop and then home to Fulham (as we experienced last season) and then switches away and won't go back despite poor performances. I am massively frustrated not with where we are but where we could be and seem desparate not to take the chances. I would love to see MON do it but, and this is where we may disagree, I don't think he will be able to get there. He seems not to realise our weaknesses.

Agree completely with this. 4-5-1 for me. Friedel Luke/Beye --- Collins --- Dunne --- Warnock Marc --- Sidders --- NRC --- Delph --- Ash Gab JC as impact sub if needed. Wouldn't be the worst thing if Gab pulled out right and JC started in place of Marc but I would like him to get a chance at some point, unless we are playing really well but the game is still tight. We should have enough in that side to beat the hammers.

We should try and get them all converted to Downing and let him serve the suspensions. Be interesting to see how the squad comes in to play now. I just hope that if people come in and play well then they stay in and are not benched as soon as the suspension is ended?

I'll do my best. Critical - another bizarre formation for the front 6 (from listening to it on the radio) where the players seemingly don't know where they are playing and are getting in each others way. Positives - a great performance from the two CB's and little Brad. Defence now sorted! If MON wants to play 4-5-1 he has the CM's to do this without squeezing Jimmy inside. He just seems desperate to find a place in the side for one of either JC or Emile. JC is not playing well and Emile needs to play in a 4-4-2 IMO or his best assets are wasted?