joey55

Two guys who can't hack it at Spurs...but are good enough for us. Jenas is bloody awful . Bentley hit and miss at best , no thanks to either of them. Could have said that about Michael Dawson and Gareth Bale at the start of the season.

Well I'll happily fall into the category of person who doesn't rate Jenas. Even with Stephen Ireland's myriad of problems and question marks over him I would still take him ahead of Jenas because he at least has that something about him where, if he fancies his surroundings, he can be a genuine match-winning quality player. Jenas is being kept out of Spurs by Huddlestone. Now don't get me wrong, I like Huddlestone and wouldn't mind having him here, but if Spurs really rated Jenas they'd have used him more than they did this season. Even before his injury in February he was being used sparingly by candleface. I'm not going to argue the merits of Jenas (though i rate him highly), but just wouldn't be at all surprised if he does end up at Villa. And if he does, i think within 6 months the general concensus will be that you've got a bargain. I've even read on here people comparing him to Sidwell and Reo Coker, which shows to be the low expectation your fans will have of him. But, he's in a different class to them. I'd be gutted if he leaves Spurs, though I'm sure he will. I genuinley don't think there is much between him and Milner. Obviously no one is going to agree with me and I'm not going to argue with those people. But I really think Jenas will be the bargain buy of the summer and my gut feeling it will be for you.

I think you'll sell him. But I think it will MON's choice and personally I think it will be the rigth choice. You will great crazy money for him and replace him with a player that will do just as well, but only cost 40% of what you get for Milner. I don't want it to happen, but I think you'll buy Jenas. Most of you will go mad and say he's shit, but after 6 months, I think opinion will change. He'll score as many from CM as Milner, create as much, pass as much, tackle more and cover more ground. I'm sure you'll all shudder at thought of replacing Milner with Jenas, but in my opinion Jenas is the most under rated player around. He's always being called shit, yet so many top mangers seem to rate him and it's because of his all round contribution. For the money you get for Milner you can buy Jenas and Parker and still have money left over for an attacking fullback.

I actually think it's our defence that makes the difference. If you can play as high up the pitch as we do and still concede so few goals, then you will always be in with shout. Our stirkers really aren't very good. That is the area that most Spurs fans think needs improving. The midfiled just get so little help from the front me. Our stikers also don't like up with each other that well. I know you lot rate you defenders highly, but I think if you had more attacking fullbacks and CB's that played 10 yeard higher up the pitch, then it would put the opposiotn under more pressure and give your front men more opportunity. I know they've missed some sitters, but they can't have missed more than ours. Gabby gets 60% of his shots on target and Carew 45%. Pav, Crouch and Defoe get under 45% on target. Your FB's create so little and watch how many challenges Dawson and King make up at the half way line compared to other CB's. It really allows us to play at a high tempo and we don't even need a DM like Palacios, as they are so often defending up where the DM would be anyway. If we swapped strikers I'm not sure the difference would be that great, but if we swapped back 4's, I think you'd be ahead of us. I know it's not common consensus, but I really believe that despite how good your defenders are at defending, they are a major part of what is holding you back. In the modern game, I think they need to get forward more down the flanks and the CB's need to play a higher line.

If you look at City's home record, we'll be lucky to get anything out of the game anyway, so I think they'll finish 4th. But I don't think that will have the terrible effect the likes of us, you and Everton thin it will, as I think Arsenal will be vulnerbale in the next couple of seasons. Wenger still has his reputation intact and is clearly a great manager, but he hasn't signed a truely world class player in 6 or 7 years. Untli about 2003 they had about 5 or 6 awesome players that could play in any team in the world. But most of those were French. But thesedays the French don't have the golden generation of players they had back then and the French markert is scouted by all the top sides, so Wenger no longer has his main advantage. If Fabregas leaves in the next year or 2, where will Wenger find his replacement? He used to sign world class players all the time, but now he seems to sign good players, but not of the standard of those he used to. I'd be shocked if there were players in France for him to recruite as good as the likes of Vieira, Petite, Pires, Anelka and Henry. And he can't inherit another Bergkamp or great back 4. As good a coach as he is, when you look back at how his brilliant sides of the 1996-2003 period were put together, it's hard to see him being able to do that again. In the same way he's not been able to replace Henry, Pires and Vieira, he will probably struggle to repalce Fabregas and then Arsenal don't look like such a strong top 4 side.

I think Bale is being judged on one game at LB, when he wasn't even as bad as is being made out. Why judge him on this game and not the other games he's played at LB this season? Lennon tortured Evra twice last season and that doesn't suddenly make him a bad LB. No one is going to have a good game every week, but Bale has done this more conssitently than most players in the Prem at both LB and LM.

Don't forget Kezman. A little known stat regarding Suarez, is that from open play he's scored at a lower rate than Pantelic, who Jol signed for free from Hertha Berlin. It's a little worrying when a free transfer, who was decent, but nothing special, in the Bundesliga, has a better striker rate than a suppossed £30 million striker who is destined ot join a major club. It's the same from Bryan Ruiz. He's attracting all sorts of attention, but his striker, even including penalties isn't as good as Pantelic's. I think it's because strikers are judged on one simple stat and that is how many goals they've scored. It seems some simple research on how long its taken them to score those goals and how many came from pens is a step too far.

Which games has he derended badly as a LB? It seems to me that everytime a LB is impressive going forward, people assume he isn't good defensively. But I haven't seen Bale making more errors defensively than other top LB's. The amount of ball winning he does on the left side, whether at LB or LM is incredible. He's started 9 Prem games at LB and we've only conceded 5 goals in the those games and kept 6 clean sheets. And in those 9 games he's won an incredible 74 tackles. On SpursCommunity he won the MOTM poll in 5 of those 9 games. And his castrol index average makes him the best LB in the Prem according to those 9 games. I haven't checked the whole of Europe but I don't think there will be a LB with a higher average. He's just been excellent on the left side, whether it's at LB or LM. Each week yahoo take the average of the ratings given by the top 6 selling newspapers in the country and use this to find their player of the season. Bale has the highest average in the Prem of any player. But he wont be player of the year as he's played 1 game less than required amount.

He hasn't just had a great end to the season, he's been great for the whole second half of the season. It's just because we've had 3 high profile games in a week and thus the media and non Spurs fans have finally got see him. But if you look on any Spurs forum, Bale will have won more MOTM votes than any player this season, as he has won the poll in most games since Jan. I doubt there have been many better left sided players in Europe in the last few months, but to say he's one of the best in Europe is getting carried away. It's the same for Gomes and Dawson, only they've been great all season. I've read on a few non Spurs site's how those 2 have found their form in recent weeks, which is totally unfair as they've been superb all season and should both be the Premier League team of the season.

Every Spurs game is available on DVD. Whenever we beat someone decent, some fan of another club goes on online to the club shop and posts a link to where you can order the DVD of that weeks game. It makes it look as if we are specially releasing a DVD to celebrate the victory, when in fact we do the same after each game, whether we win, lose or draw. You can just as easily by our previous game, which was a loss to Sunderland.

I think injuires are the key difference between you and Villa this season. I think you are actually better than they are, but they've been very lucky with injuries, whilst you've had a nightmare time. I think most Spurs fans consider us to be the team that has had to contend with the most injuries this season to key players, but you've suffered even more. Had Villa lost Dunne, Milner and Gabby for the amount of time you've been without Jagielka, Arteta and Yak, then i can't imagine they'd have finished in the top half. I get annoyed when some Everton fans criticise Moyes, as it's as if they don't realise the importance of their own key players. I remember being on a couple of Everton forums earlier in the season and couldn't believe some of the negative stuff written about Moyes. I can't see Vertonghen leaving Ajax. For the first time in years Ajax look to be on the verge of being a decent team again. I think the current crop of Ajax's best players will stay together for at least a couple more years, to see what they can achieve and then go their seperate ways, in the same way the De Jong, VDV, Pienaar and Chivu etc generation did.

What positions are you most likley to strengthen during the summer? Surely you are only a couple of payers away from challenging for a top 4 spot. A decent attacking RB and a decent fit striker would seem to me to be the key areas. Jerome Boateng wants to leave HSV and Guerrero is also leaving on a free. I don't know if you could afford those two in terms of wages, but I think they'd be great signings for you.

I think Gomes occassional flap gets highlighted far more than most GK's (and they all have occassional flaps). It's because Gomes made so many mistakes in his first half season and thus everytime he's made a mistake since, it's been highlighted, to the point that non Spurs fans, who don't watch him every week, think he's inconsistent. But he's conceded less goals per game than any other keeper in the Prem. You can't do that without being consistently good. I think names and reputation count for far too much amonsgt football fans. The likes of Cech and Reina are very good, but this seaon Gomes has been the best.

Sure if things don't change in terms of transfers and wages how will you improve? You will stand still or worse. You will have to spend that money you bring in IF you get champions League or you won't get it next season and you won't make too much impact in Europe. This is why we are looking to move stadiums. CL football is something we can't be sure of each season (lets face it's hughly unlikley). So, we can't sign players on long term contracts, based on a wage strucutre that assumes we'll have the revenue from the CL. But when we move stadiums we'll generate probably another £15-£20 million per year.

I'm not sure a CL spot would make that much of a difference to us in terms of money we spend. We've always got money to spend on transfer fees, but in terms of wages, we pay about the same as you and we certainly wont change our wage structure based on qualifying for the CL. Even with an extra £15 million to spend I don't think it would change our transfer targets. The kind of players that fit within our wage structure aren't going to be any we can't afford without CL football.

I only really know football from the 80's onwards and therefore I just made the assumption that Villa had pretty much been at the same level in the decades before the 80's that they have since. Hence i thought there would be title challenges, FA Cups etc scattered throughout your history. I didn't realise that your success's were so grouped together and i was really surpised by it. It seems you went through a 50 year period in the wilderness, and then came from nowhere to win the title. I thought that even though you hadn't won the league in a long time before that, that there would have been periods when you'd been in the top few teams and made title challenges etc. In the time I've been alive there have been a few occassion when aside from your title win, you've finshed in the top 3 etc and I thought it was always like that.

I'm not trying to say we are greater than you though. I was specifically talking about Villa. I don't want to compare as otherwise we will just get into pointless arguments. I was genuinely suprised by Villa's history. I guess that is because i had assumed Villa were a greater part of the forging of the modern era, along with the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Leeds, Everton and Liverpool etc. I wasn't around in the 50's, 60's and 70's so don't know that period, but I just assumed Villa would have been one of the clubs fighting at the top of the table for many of those seasons. It's seen as an insult to point out you weren't, but if you think about it isn't. I naturally assumed because of your status that you were one of those clubs. If I didn't see you as a big club I wouldn't have made that assumption. I don't want to get involved in the validity of your early league title wins as it's a silly argument and both sides have pood points. In the sameway Glaston shouldn't dismiss your wins, you should ackowledge it isn't quite the same thing as winning the title once the league became a nation wide competition, rather than a nothern league (Villa being the most southern club). So both arguments have validity, but the argument itself doesn't get anyone anywhere, it just annoys people, so is best left alone.

This is probably going to annoy/anger many of you, but it genuinely ( and I stress genuinley) isn't meant to. But as a results of this stupid Glaston and Brumstopdogs argument, I had a look at your trophies and was honestly stunned by your lack of success. Obvioulsy I'm not that familiar with your history, but had you asked me to guess how many major trophies Villa have won since the war, I'd have gone for double the amount you have. You've only won 9 major trophies in the last 100 years. Please don't bother responding in an anti Spurs way as I'm not trying to compare or continue that argument, but just point out I was really very suprised. If someone had asked me who had won the most in the last 100 years out of you and Chelsea, despite their recent success, i'd have still said Villa. I guess I thought you had a golden period around the time you won the European Cup. I'd be genuinley interested to hear a little more about what happened to that team and why more trophies weren't won at the time. It's seems you came from nowhere (7th the season before) to win the title and then the following season finsihed 11th (depsite winning the Europeaen Cup). Surely there must be some story here. It seems very strange you go from winning the league to finsihng 11th in the space of a year. Usually when a team has such success, it is part of a several year period when the club is at the top and winning things, it's must be very rare for club to come from midtable, win the league and European Cup and then go straight back to mid table. Within 5 years you'd been relegated. Were there financial problems, that prevented you building on the success of the title winning side?

Did Glaston really come on here saying your trophies don't count? Or was it the usual bullshit, of a Villa poster saying we are better then you becasue we've won more and Glaston countering by saying alot of what you won was prior to the modern professional era etc? If he did just come along and start spouting of,f saying your trophies don't count, then he is out of order and I apologise for defending him. From what I've read of his posts it genuinely doesn't sound like him and he is usually just reacting to situations (ie as I've suggested could be possible in this example), but maybe I've got the guy wrong.

To be honest from my experience on other boards it's quite rare to be met with the hostility you find here. Quite alot of fans just like to talk football and enjoy reading the perspective of fans from other teams. I like it when non SPurs fans come onto Spurs messageboards. Some of you must like to here the perspective of other fans to an extent, otherwise you wouldn't browse other forums. The only difference is I and a few others choose to interact and this is only forum where it's been a problem. And I've spoken as much about Villa as I have Spurs. Yet on here if I give my perspective on something regarding Villa or try an explain what i believe to be a misconception about Spurs, most of the time someone will take it as attack of somekind and feel the need to repsond. That's why i defend Glaston so much. It isn't simply because he's a Spurs fan, but because he opinion is met with such anger. People keep saying he started etc, but I've been aware of Glaston on various messageboards for years and the guy never deliberately tries to wind others up. He gets shit on other baords, but nothing like here.

I point my finger at some posters in this thread and not at Villa fans in general. I've said myself that Glaston would do better not to take the bait. Butmany of you have already admitted a ahtretd of Psurs, so it's only natural the a SPurs fan like Galston would want to correct or challenge soem of the negative views presented. I'm sure some Villa fans would do the same if the shoe was on the other foot. My point is and has been consistently throughout this thread, that it's hypocritical to justify anger at a poster or group of fans for doing the exact same things they themselves do. Reading through this thread don't you think I've got a point. Take Brumstopdogs for example. If you read his posts, doesn't he come across in a way that would be seen as typical of the Spurs fans many of you seem to hate?

So when Spurs fans are bias to their side its a "bit of football based banter" and the norm. Yet when Villa fans express what you believe to be such bias and on their own site nonetheless you and other Spurs fans are up in arms. Interesting. Oh and then you dispense the advice that Villa fans should "lighten up and not take things so seriously" I'm almost choking on the irony. You seem to miss the point. It's the hypocracy that I've always alluded to in this thread, not the banter. The exact things that the posters in this thread are claiming to dislike Spurs fans for, they do themselves. I've not shown any disproval to all the "we've won more than you" banter. It's when posters start using this banter as an excuse to display real vitriol that I have a problem. The arguments involving Galston are a typical examples of what i'm talking about. You end with peope saying they just wish he'd **** etc, when really he's not doing anything different to those he is arguing with.

you dont live in london like i do and all the ones i know are deluded heres an example villa get to wembley and spurs fans say to me wembleys over-rated been there done that so it doesnt matter a mere few weeks later the same spurs fans are writing on their fb status we are going to wembley woohoo! mugs How do you manage to survive living in a place where people big up the football team they support? Having to endure a bit of football based banter is totally unacceptable in this day and age and something needs to be done. Next I bet those Spurs fans will be telling you to lighten up and not take things so seriously or to stop looking for pathetic reason to justify your prejudices. They'll probaby go as far as to suggest you lack a sense of humour. They clearly are a bunch of mugs.

I have 2 mates who are Villa fnas. Both are greats blokes, but it's got nothing to do with what football team they support. Let's be honest, all this thread really demonstrates as that Villa fans are just as culpbable for things you all claim to dislike Spurs fans for. The exact same things you accusse our fan base of, that you do yourselves there are also done by loads of other clubs fans. If you lived further north, you'd be sick of hearing Man City and Newcastle fasn talk about how good they are etc.

Tell you what, why don't you leave the moderation of the site to those who are responsible for doing it and stick to posting about Spurs. Thanks. Trent.