joey55

Georgi Kinkladze. This is only amongst City fans, but he is arguably the most overrated footballer of them all amongst a fan base. He was an eye catching playmaker, but his only great season came when City were in the Championship and he scored 12 goals. When you consider Adel Taarabt did in the Championship last season, playing in the same position, it shows just how much lower the level is and how much easier it is for such players to look good. When Kinkladze played in the top flight, the most he scored was 4 goals and was dropped for being a luxury at times. He then went on to flop at Ajax. The reason I say he's so overrated, is because on Bluemoon City fans often debate who was better out of him and David Silva! This really isn't much different to deabting who is better out of Iniesta and Taarabt! City fans genuinely put him in their top 3 best ever players, when in reallity he wouldn't even get in their current 25 man squad. Their Kinkladze delusion is driven by pure nostalgia, when he was the one thing that entertained them during a dark period for their club, so they love him for it. It's mental!

Our defence is nothing like the 2009/10 season. Dunne's been ok, but Warnock's been a liability as always. Our defence isn't actually much better than last season, if at all. Basically i thought O'neil played a compact game and think McCleish does the same, but even more so. Under O'Neil alot of your fans praised individual defenders, but I thought the team set up was favourable for the defence and that they actually weren't particuarly good and would get found out in a more expansive team. I read some praise for you defenders again and thought the same thing was happening, but obviously not. So I guess it's only the youth and Bent that makes me even more negative than you guys. And the youth thing is only because given the insane stength and money the top teams have in the Prem, you'd have to have an incredible set of youngsters for them to be a reason to be genuinley positive.

I think we'll be the better team, but we could easily lose or draw. These things happen all the time and we are due a bad result. Last season we lost to Wigan at WHL! We haven't lost a game we really should have won for a long time, so it's bound to happen sooner or later. It wouldn't suprise me if that happened tomorrow, but it would suprise me if we didn't boss possession and create the most chances. Spurscommunity is the biggest Spurs forum.

I read a few weeks ago the defence was being viewed more positively than last season and that Dunne and Warnock seemed to be getting less criticism. It just reminded me of the 2009/10 season when many of your fans praised the defence, even though you were playing pretty damn deep alot of the time.

Such as? The defence, youth and Bent.

I think he looks good, but he'd be an example of the kind of thing a Villa fan would see as a reason for optimism, but I wouldn't get too excited about if I were you. He's a good player, but the sad reallity is that we have so many rich clubs at the top of the Prem, you have to compare him to the best youg players in the world, as when Bannan is at his peak, they will be playing for the likes of City, Chelsea and Utd.

I never gloated after our previous games and was a member then. Don't know what our fans in general think of Villa, but I'd say my opinion is pretty similar to that of your own fans, only I'd probably be even more negative, as I even disagree with most of what you view as the current positives elements of the club, with the acception of Agbonlahor, who I think is a real asset.

Depends on your point of view. I personally don't think you have to be eye catching or creative to be a great player, and in my view Essien (before his two knee injuries) and Makelele were great players. I think most would agree with you, which is why I mentioned them. This thread started off with the likes of Zlatan being mentioned has ended up with the likes of Gary Stevens. Zlatan is one of the most revered and talked about strikers of the last decade, whilst Gary Stevens was a half decent defender, that very few people bothered to pass opinion on, due to his relative insignificance.

In my opinion Michael Essien has always been vaslty overrated. I doubt many would agree with me, but there is no doubt he's been very highly rated over the years by the media and fans alike. I was never crazy about Makelele either, but he was pretty much universally rated.

Who rates him? In my opinion he' massively under rated and is one of our key players, but most people disagree with that. He's hardly a name the media or football fans harp on about. He's usually spoken of as a player who is too immobile, as you've just said. This thread is basically people just listing players they don't rate. Most players are going to be rated by some and not by others. But to be worthy of a mention in this thread, surely the player has to be highly rated by the majority of football fans and the media.

Paul Stewart was considered a flop during his time at Spurs by the fans and the media. Gary Stevens got a much press hype as the likes of David Unsworth or Stephen Warnock. in other words he was a decnt enoguh RB, got a few caps, but nothing to get excited about, hence no real hype. Are you sure you aren't just finding random palyers to list. I really doubt anyone else interested in football remembers the Gary Stevens hype (mainly because it didn't happen.) Mabbutt again wasn't hyped and if anything should be listed in a thread of underrated players. Barmby did get hype and lived up to it during his time at Spurs. He was never hyped up like Joe Cole or Wayne Rooney, but spoken as a future England player from a young age. I don't actually object to you mentioning the likes of Barmby and Mabbutt though, as there were plenty of people who rated them. If you disagree with their opinions then I'm not going to tell you are wrong, as people will always have differing opinions. But the other players you have listed are just random players who played for Spurs and weren't rated or hyped by at all really. .

Again none of which were rated apart from Sullivan for one season, when he was genuinley very good. Rebrov is still listed in worst ever signings lists and was considered a flop from early in his career. You are basically listing players that weren't very god for us, that weren't rated highly by our fans or anyone else's. The players we've had in the last 25 years that have been highly rated are the likes of Hoddle, Waddle, Campbell, Klinsmann, Ginola, Anderton, Barmby, Carr, Lineker, Gascoigne, Modric, Bale, VDV, Carrick, Berbatov, Sheringham, Parker, Keane, King and Mabbutt. You can easily be critcal of a number of those as throughout their careers they've had some bad periods, but there is no doubt that for long periods during their time with us, they all played at a very high level. The only two that I can think of that got England recogntion they didn't deserve would be Gardener and Walker. I think the last few years of our relative success has made alot of people forget just what a laughing stock we were for most of the Prem era. Our players and teams in general weren't rated by our fans, other fans or the media. We were shit, we knew it, other fans knew it and the media constantly let us know it.

Spurs fans didn't even rate these players when they were with us! Redknapp was highly rated when he was at Liverpool and fit, but he never played for England when at Spurs, only managed around 50 games in 3 years and often looked unfit. Andy Sinton got his last England cap 3 years before he joined us and was not at all rated. Justin Edinburgh was often listed in worst Premier League XI's etc! You might think our players are often over rated, but the examples you gave are really terrible, as certainly during their time at Spurs, I don't remember any of them being at all particaurly rated, especially by our fans and the only one 2 play for England when with us was Sherwood and he only got a couple of caps.

No offence but I don't see it at all. If Chelsea didn't sign him then he would've gone Arsenal instead or perhaps stayed at Valencia. I'm not saying that if he hadn't gone to Chelsea we'd have signed him. I'm reffering to him turning us down, after Levy told Harry was thought he was about to sign. We'd obviously got to the negotiation stage and Levy was confident, but Mata understandably decided he'd rather than stay at Valencia, than sign for a club of our stature.

In fairness, against the two Manchester clubs, Spurs were without King, Gallas, Parker, Sandro, Modric (literally wasn't there against Utd, mentally wasn't there against City) and Adebayor. And both Manchester clubs started the season phenomenally well. Since the first two losses though, Spurs have won 6 out of 7, drawing the other 1. And that includes games against CL rivals in Liverpool and Arsenal and away games against Wolves and Blackburn. Yeah, both teams have been really poor this season, but Spurs traditionally struggle against them. Spurs obviously won't finish anywhere near 1st place, points wise, but if, and it's a big if, the manager keep the players playing with same spirit, work ethic and attacking movement we saw today, then they'll take some beating to get 4th, and Chelsea ought to be worried about keeping hold of 3rd place. I reckon three new players need bringing in during the January window though in order to maintain consistency. A centre back to take the pressure off needing King or Gallas fit, a right midfielder to compete with Lennon and a striker for when Adebayor inevitably starts to stop caring. Cahill, Marin and Leandro would be a fantastic window for Spurs. Maybe another attempt for Rossi as Villareal have declined this season. I agree it will take a good team to finish us above us in 4th, but unfortunately Arsenal and Liverpool are both good teams, so it will be very close. It's frustrating Cheslea managed to sign Mata, especially as Levy thought we get him. As for January, I'd rather we went for Berbatov. I know he's hated by our fans, but everytime Adebayor gets the ball I wish it was Berba instead. I know Adebayor is quicker, but he takes so long to control it compared to Berba it becomes irrelevant. Ade is way better than Pav and Crouch, but equally is way short of Berbatov standards. If we could get Berba for a low fee in Jan or free in the summer, I think we should. I'd also prefer Hoillet over Marin. He really impressed me last week against us and apparenly he's been like it all season. I think I'd also prefer Samba over Cahill. I know he should be judged more on his defensive work, but I've never seen a player cause so much trouble from set pieces.

This is the exact reason we don't rate him. Pav is probably the most unpopular player in our squad and the one our fans would most like to get rid of. But the exact same thing could be said of Bent, only he's even more anonymous than Pav and needs to have chances put on a plate for him. I don't get why our fans wont put up with such shit and yours are happy to. The other day I read someone post that Bent is the best striker you've had since Dwight Yorke and it really shocked me. I think in the striking department Villa fans have been seriously starved in recent years and it's made you overly generous in your opinions of someone as average as Bent. It's a bit like Spurs fans with the DM role and Palacios. We hadn't had a decent ball winner in years, so when he came into our midfield, the fans adored him for his tenacity etc. It took about 2 years for us to finally click that he's actually pretty average (most blame this on the death of his brother, but in reallity he was never that good) and the only reason we thought he was good was because our previous players in that role were Michael Brown, Steffen Freund and Zokora.

True, but they would have cost a lot lot more. But what do you think of someone like Petric? You saw him play against Villa a couple of seasons ago and he's real quality. But at HSV he gets rotated and in the Bundesliga they only play 34 games. He was talking of leaving all last year. At a glance it looks like he averages about 10 goals per season, but his actual stike rate is very good, he just plays far less than Bent. It's even true of Pavlyuchenko. Bent and Pavs goal per minute rate was almost identical last season (when you take only Bents time at Villa, as if you include his 20 games for Sunderland, Pavs was far better). Yet Pav does far more in terms of creating, holding the ball up and linking up the play. Also he doesn't need chances created for him as he can score from anywhere. He'd have cost less than half what you paid for Bent.

I don't think you should accept it. You'd have to have an incredible strike rate and chance conversion rate for that to be true. When you actually look at Bents goals per minute it's way down on the top class stikers in the Prem, especially without pens. When you consider just who much better the best stikers all round game is than Bents, then I don't get why people don't mind as long as he scores. If it wasn't for the fact he's played so many minutes of football and usually been he's clubs penalty taker would he be rated at all? For example, out of the 60 games Sunderland played during his time there, he started 58 and played virtually every minute of them. He also scored 8 pens. He actual goals per minute rate was 1 every 214 minutes, which is nothing special at all and wouldn't be in the top 10 Prem strikers during that period. In my opinion, his goals don't make up for his lack of contribtution in other areas. You defintely needed a striker when you bought him, but I think there were much better choices who could have scored at a similar rate and at the same time contributed far more all round and been considerably cheaper.

who ?? Hutton when at Spurs.

I'm suprised he's doing so badly for you. During the periods in which he had decent runs in the team for us, he genuinely was a good right back. He went on loan to Sunderland and their fans thought he was excellent. Maybe injuries have caught up with him.

Simplysperfect, I was replying to Rhyscartwrigths post and he was talking about the seaon we qualified for the CL. SO I wasn't talking about Falque, but Piennar. But none the less, none of it was bull. There is no evidence to suggest our targets were Falque and Llorente. Posting stuff like that was what cause me to say your post was full of rubbish based on little foundation. Rossi wasn't an unrealistic target, it's just that we thought the price was too high when we went back in for him in Jan. The previous summer we were quoted £18 million and that comes from Harry, not pure speculation Two of the strikers Redknapp originally brought to the club, were signed when we were in a relegation scrap, not trying to improve on 4th place. Also Defoe and Crouch made significant contributions to us finishing 4th. It's pretty ridiculous to criticise signings that took us to a position that in order to improve further, we'd need better players. It's like saying we should have signed world class strikers when we were 15th in the Prem! As if they'd have been interested in signing for Spurs then! Basically we signed players with the objective of getting out of trouble and then push for CL spots. They achieved that and so we looked to push on again and sign even better players, but couldn't. It's as if you are criticising Redknapp for improving things too quickly! We might have had a bad run after the Milan game, but the obviously our rivals also had bad times during the season otherwise with the squads they had, we'd have been nowhere near them. Our fans need to realise that all of the previous seasons top 4 had dissapointing seasons compared to the year before. Utd won the title with 3 less points with which they finished 2nd the year before. Chelsea and Arsenal both got alot less points. Basically it's tough league and had City not been able to spend so much money on so many huge signings, then it's fair to say they'd have probably struggled to improve as the entire previous seasons top 4 did. Also we only lost 3 in the remainder of the season after the Milan game and one of those defeats were due to 2 goals that should never have been allowed against Chelsea. You haven't got a clue what formations we practised in training, so don't speculate that we didn't train 4411. Also we didn't look lost when we played it either. Dawson had a long injury lay off, though came back very well. I don't think Bassong was ever that great, but we suffered from injuries (Dawson I've mentioned) and King only started 5 games, so we was never able to strike up a decent partnership. But I don't see why these things are Redkapps fault. At the end of the day we signed a CB, who despite his Arsenal connections, won the crowd over as he played so well. We did want to qualify for the CL again, but we failed. But to suggest we shouldn't put ut full strength sides in the 2nd round and 1/4 final is insane. Imagine how are star players would feel if we did that! Did you even think of that when criticising? Imagine telling VDV, Modric and Bale that they aren't playing in the CL! Football fans are so unreasonable in their criticisms it's unbelievable. Had we managed a couple of wins against those teams you've listed, we could have finished 4th. But we didn't becasue it's a tough league and we weren't as strong as our rivals and they dropped less points. I think most non Spurs fans would have been able to predict that before the start of the season. The point is to blame the manager and suggest he should perhaps lose his job is crazy, as when you look at the achievments of his rival managers, it suggests they'd have done even worse with our squad. As you say Arsenal imploded and City were hardly convincing. If Wenger and Mancinni could do that with their squads, what would they have done with ours - finish 8th probably! The final point you make about Jol, should be the exact reason you stop making such strong criticisms of Redknapp. So many unreasonable and unrealistic Spurs fans wanted Jol to be sacked and came out with nonsense such "he's taken the club as far as he can" etc. At some point our fans need to start thinking that given the circumstances, there is only so far a club of our size and financial resources can go and stop making petty criticisms of our managers and actually start being a bit more thankful that we've got such a good manager. I don't mind the Villa fans consistently bashing Harry, but it gauls me to see Spurs fans doing it.

Gomes was one of our best players the season before last. We did get another DC (assuming you mean central defender) and we also got in winger. We failed to get a striker, but to blame Harry for that is pure speculation, as we have no idea why we couldn't sign our main targets, though Adebayor has said he was set to come in Jan, but then Real came in for him. We also needed a striker before Redknapp arrived, but couldn't get one, so the problem of landing our targets was already there. When you consider that Gallas, Sandro and VDV were 3 of our success stories last season, it's unfair to say we didn't sign top quality players considering our wage restrictions. The main problems in defence were that Dawson got a long injury and King only played in 5 Prem games, compared to 20 the previous season. So even though we brought in Gallas, who was really good for us, we were still weaker. The striker issue was the real problem and it's hard to say exactly what happened there and to simply blame Redknapp is pure based on nothing more than guess work. Other Spurs fans might not like to accept it, but 5th place is good for us. At the end of the day, we finished one place lower than the previous season and that was with the team that had previously finishing 5th, spending insane amounts of money on transfers and paying ridiculous wages. It's easy to say we shouldn't have prioritised Europe, but what is the point of qualifying if you don't have a go when you get there? Also Harry did say the league remained our priority, it's just we weren't good enough to finish 4th last season and to be honest I don't think, given the size and stength of the clubs we were competing against, there is much wrong with that. We finshed 5th, which is our joint 2nd ever highest Prem finish, got 62 pts, our third highest total and got to the 1/4 final of the CL. In my book that is a very good season for Spurs. I'd love to do better and think we can finish 4th again, but I'm not going to be overly critical if we don't, as I'm not going to forget the great strides we've made and I wont ignore the huge advantages our top 4 rivals have.

Great post though. I enjoyed reading that. How would you rate England's chances with 'Arry at the helm, knowing the players at his disposal? It's not a great post at all. It's full of rubbish actually. Alot of it is pure speculation with no foundation whatsoever. It's as biased as anything you could accuse Glaston of posting. Of course Harry did make mistakes last season, but compared with rival managers he still made relatively few. It wasn't even a particuarly good year for Man Utd, by their standards. It's just the other title challengers managers made mistakes, as Harry did. For Ancelotti to only get 71 points with Chelsea, shows he must have been making more errors than Redknapp. Wenger and Arsenal went from 75 pts and 3rd, to 4th and 68 points, so he too must have been doibng something wrong. Man City were 5 points better off, but spent £150 million to get them, it's hardly managerial genius. I can't be bothered to go through his whole post and this is a Villa forum, so I doubt you want to read a Spurs fan debating with another Spurs fan. But there are many parrallels with what SimplySPurfect has written and so much of what is written by your fans concerning Villa in the main forum. So much of opinion in football is based on false assumptions and pure speculation.

He spilled Huddlestones shot in the last couple of minutes. And a few minutes before that he struggled with a cross and Defoe hit the post. I thought he looked pretty shakey throughout, it's just we didn't really have many good long shots. I think a team with a proper central midfield and a striker who is strong in the air, could get closer to goal more fequently and expose De Gea more. I'm sure he's a good GK, but I'd expect to see a few more iffy performances in the coming weeks. We gave him a fairly easy time and he still looked like he had mistakes in him.

What comments? An odd post to make the day the press stir up shit about Dawson, only for him to deny it on the official website.