TerryCzap

Sir, do you have some very substancial evidence that someone is getting away with being a pedophile - and that I am defending it?

Respect. Yes, I will respect any man and leave him to his own stubbornness, even to his own detriment. Also I am not interested in debate, for the sake of debate. It is a waste of energy. I would much rather go and walk the land and watch the deer cavort in the canyons, or watch the towhee dance in the weeds as they look for food. This is profitable. Wrestling to “prove” something to someone who thinks it is unprovable, and does not want to have it proved to him, is like trying to turn a 50 ton rock upside down all by myself. I will wait for the earthquake, or the flood to do it’s work. Many a large bolder gets overturned when the flash flood strikes it. There is an old saying “there are no atheist in trenches” during a war. I’ll leave these souls in the hands of their Maker. He knows when and how to shake a man to his core and bring him down low.

Friend, you may believe whatever it is that you want to believe, for as long as you want to believe it.

That would be a very inaccurate application. What I was demonstrating by my statement: is what happens when the state controls the conscience of its citizens, even if the state is swayed by mob rule. Our statements on the web, telling our point of view of the film, likely has little impact on people who have been deceived already by the fraudulent presentation. First impressions are lasting ones. The film was the "media backlash". Bounties have been offered for someone to put a bullet to Michael's head. Hundreds are vainly clamoring for Michael the pedophile to be impisoned. Others offer their desire to come and pulverize him. Do you not think that is the backlash?

You may call it whatever you like. I call it living in the moment.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here about being "completely at odds with what you believe yourself".

This would be like saying that the Western press and Western powers did not vilify Saddam Huessein. A very proficient campaign was run to vilify Michael, and it could be proved in a court of law. If you knew the man, his character and his statements that he gave to C4 (of which I have audio copies), you would understand what I am referring to. If you knew the man, you would know why his claim to Messiah is credible. 2000 years of generations have accepted by faith that Jesus was the Messaih and this is nothing different. Excuse me! I do not desire to “convince” you of anything. I already told you how to escape the terrible trauma of me doing this. You are willingly reading my posts. I could understand why you might say what you say, considering you really know very little about the world that I actually live in (Strong City). How could you have any idea of the freedom, or lack of it that I have? I can tell you this, I am perfectly free to do whatever I want to do, at any time I want to do it. I am perfectly free to follow my conscience at all times. Most people are not. I could not say this when I was in society at large. We have had to leave houses lands, spouses and families in order to live with a clear conscience. Soon we will leave the earth's government altogether There is a major difference here, God does not force me to do things as the state does. God gives me, and you, the choice to do what we want to do. The state is not so benevolent however. If, as all the noise from the Brits reaches the “new world” the state could easily come in here and take the few children we have left, just because of public outcry (mob rule) - and this would not be due to any crime of any manner that was committed, since no crime has been committed. That is part of the problem with governments today, they are based on mob rule, bypassing supposed constitutions, instead of any real type of freedom. God does not work that way with me. I have to be very honest with you, I have so very little interest in convincing non believers in a God, to become believers. I would much rather let them enjoy their lives without “harassing” them to be converted. I only continued posting here because it seemed there were some folk who had a genuine interest finding out more about the film and its contents. I hope you live a long and happy life, and do not wish anything on you that you do not want.

Snowy, For my own reference and helpfulness as to your background - do you consider yourself a christian or that the bible is something other than fiction? This helps me understand where you are coming from. The reason I say this, is because I do not bother using spiritual or biblical refferences if someone claims to be and athiest or agnostic an thinks the book is a fairy tale.

No, I am not - and I do not believe anyone else here is either.

I’ve never met anyone else who has claimed to be Messiah - except Messiah simply means “anointed” which all preachers claim to be. I know there are lists of people who claim to be messiah but I have not heard of anyone who says that in it’s most serious manner. I’ve seen kooks interviewed who have made such claims, but the guy is drunk and foul mouthed, and you know he is just in it for the entertainment value. David Koresh would be another example. Though to be fair, it was the press who labeled him as the “sinful messiah”, but he never claimed to be the actual, factual representative of the biblical prophecy. It was similar in Jesus day. Barrabas claimed to be the messiah and was going to set the people free. But the real one stands out from the rest. He takes the heat. He seems too credible and must be vilified, like the producers of the End of the World Cult did with Michael. If you knew the character of the one who is making this claim, you would know he was not doing this except that it is true.

It may be true that those who are wealthy have a few more toys and travel a lot more. I would suggest something else though. If you observe the wealthy, they are very tied up with their wealth. They are always trying to find a way to keep their monies and get more. They must have extra security and even bodyguards to protect themselves and their wealth. It is as if they are enslaved by the wealth that they have, which makes them very not free. This is why many "rich" men commit suicide when they lose their fortunes. They were not truly wealthy. This little story from the web illustrates some fabulous principles. The businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while. The businessman then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The businessman then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time? The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor." The businessman scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you would sell directly to the processor and eventually open your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City where you would run your expanding enterprise." The Mexican fisherman asked, "But señor, how long will this all take?" To which the businessman replied, "15-20 years." "But what then, señor?" The businessman laughed and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich. You would make millions." "Millions, señor? Then what?" The businessman said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos." The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "Isn't that what I'm doing right now?"

I am 48 years old and have grown up like most other people in Western societies. While I have associated with this little “cult” for almost twenty years, all but a few years were spent in the “outside” world, living and mingling with society. I have been a carpenter for more than 25 years, primarily in the “finish carpentry” trade, installing trim packages in new homes. Later I refined my specialty to circular and spiral staircase installation. I had a beautiful wife. Lived well. Made money. I’ve probably traveled more than a fair share of Americans ever could have. What I began to notice over time was that most Western societies, including America, operate on a lie. We are told that we have freedom, when we have no such thing. We are told we must have a strong “defense” (military) when the main function of the military is for the slaughter of others on their home turf. The other purpose of the military is to opperate as a channel to fill the pockets of those who supply the ammo and technology. We are told our children must get an “education” and half of them come out of 12 years of schooling not knowing how to read, yet are morally corrupt. We are told this is a Christian nation, when the fruits of the nation’s actions and expenditures in no way resemble what Christ would have done. We are told to be “free” we must go borrow 30 years worth of income and pay a bank back, who simply made up that money out of thin air. Over the period of the last 15 years or so, I realized what a joke the “American Dream” or any other one was. The colonist fled England to get free land and be free from taxation. Now there is no free land in America (or anywhere else), and its citizens work 6 out of every 10 days for their government in one way or another. By free, I mean in a manner in which the state is not always hovering over you making sure you live the way you are ordered to. So, to answer your question, I have tasted everything that the world has to offer and am not “missing” anything. More than that, I have had plenty of “real life” experiences, like having my children withheld from me for almost 15 years, and been incarcerated due to my faith, which gave me a real taste of America and its "religious freedom". We have not come to NM to create our own little utopia, we have come here to cooperate with God, in being removed from the planet (not suicide) and taken back to the real land of true freedom. Yes, the human body is an incredible machine, but as with most everything in life, a fair share of abuse comes it’s way. On the surface, sporting activities appear harmless, until you look at the principles behind them. The purpose in competitive sports is to “beat” the other person and team. The injuries which take place often cripple people for life. Then, there is the great oppression angle. A-Rod gets a 27 million dollar per year contract, while the taxpayers fund the ballparks with their 7$ per hour jobs and help pad the pockets of the elite. We teach our children (all three of them) to uplift others, and not to “beat” them. I know how well that will go over, but you asked. I listen to music judiciously, as with every other activity - for everything we do matters and has an impact on the soul. The earth and its people could be a wonderful place, but the sad reality is: the wise always oppress the less wise. The rich always oppress the poor. Those who love sin, always find a way to force it on others, and spoil the place. It is built into our human nature. Something happened to me many years ago, and I started to hear the heart of the Father. It was as if he was always in pain, for he continually has to support all the hurtful activities that go on in society. In 1991 God put it on our hearts to began praying for the end of the world (not suicide) so that all the pain and suffering of both God and mankind could be brought to an end. And now, God has answered a major part of the prayer - the second coming of Christ has already taken place. Some will chose that Christ and will simply await his sweet voice which will call us heavenward. We will not resist him. After that takes place, the world will be left to destroy itself.

My initial interest was in visiting with people regarding the film and the actual occurrences which took place. If no one responded, then you would never have heard from me agian. The film, which this thread spoke of, was more fraud than fact, and I wanted to share my two cents worth. No, I do not have an interest in Aston Villa and don’t know what it is, or where it is. I can assure you however, that I/we are not looking for recruits. No one can be recruited. We do not want “members” nor money. We stopped recruiting members more than 15 years ago. I am visiting with folks here, but there are no strings attached. I am simply telling a story which was not presented in the film. To be honest, I was actually surprised the thread has lasted this long. Terry

Some of you have asked or commented about Jeff, Michael's son. He has posted a little statement on our site to make things clearer in regard to his role in things. It can be found at this link.

It seems that most people are too busy to hear God. The TV, iPod and the home stereo are always blaring away, and God cannot even get through. The other issue is that most people do not want him to get through to them. That is why all the noise is around them perpetually. Add to that the draw of relationships, children, work, games, sports. The earth right now is specifically designed to drown out the voice of God. Violating ones conscience also silences the voice of God. Do you ever lie, cheat, steal, or break any of the commandment of God? Finally, if you watched the documentary, I know that you heard God speak to you. You may not have understood much, but it was the voice of God, chopped and spliced as it was. What you do from now on is a different matter. Most people rarely hear him in their head, but rather in the heart.

I didn't over this night. It's 7 am.

Do you mean that I cannot do the work that my Father has given me to do, in the manner he has given me to do it? Are you God that I must do things the way you see fit? If I say Yes, would you believe me? You would have to be a bit more clear on which question you are asking.

What I would say is this: if there is any goodness that comes out of man, it comes from God. That would be true even if a man were a professed atheist, a communist, christian, buddhist, muslim or any other type of religion. And God can take anyone with him that he so choses, despite his religious profession - as long as that man give his consent. God does not live in a box and cannot be put in one. This unencumbered box theory opens up the validity of Michael Travesser as the second appearing of Christ which many religions have been waiting for. It is because God can do things the way he wants to.

All one has to do to see the “goodness” of man is to look at Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Vietnam, or Hiroshima. These are fairly American tragedies, but the English have a pretty long dirty list of oppression and murder also. America, in many parts of the world, simply picked up the wars where the Brits left off. The locations and their decimation reveal how much good man has inside of himself. As far as other religions and regions, that is God’s responsibility to work out. All the little children of the world belong to him. I am only dealing the sphere of influence that I reside in. The question for you is: What do you say of the Christ that God has sent? How have you judged him?

Michcael has come for all those who hear the voice of God. Since God created all mankind, he has returned for all whose hearts are turned towards Him. You could ask him yourself. He has been posting at this site for the last couple days. Link “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.” Revelation 19:7 It seems the scriptures suggest that God will come for His bride. I don't see any other parameters.

A key point I think. I neither talk to God nor have him talk back to me. I'm not miserable. Far from it. The fact that you think I should be suggests that there is something missing in your life that you have to fill with superstition and myth. You need 'God' to avoid misery. I don't. What I was referring to friend, was that multitudes of "christians" object to the notion that God could tell someone something like "you are Messiah". Wherein they promote talking to God and doing what he says. I was suggesting that if a christian does not hear God’s voice, they are living a miserable deception. If you do not believe in God, that is fine by me. It's not that I don't not care, it is that you are certainly free to live as you wish.

In the film it was suggested that we "gave everything to Michael". In reality we all pooled our assets into a communal fund. This could have taken the form of selling various assets, social security income, or any other source of income. From it, all of our bills are paid and our needs are met. Currently we are experiencing what the Bible calls a Jubilee year, in which none of us are working for incomes, so our time is spent here in the vast grasslands of NM. Our days are varied just like any other person on the planet. We have various infrastructure that must be maintained. Getting supplies. Going for walks or just staying home. We have lots of time to talk to our Father and contemplate how life works, and recognize how the great masses of people, without realizing it, are not much more than slaves. Here, we are free to worship God in a manner similar to the way it was for Adam and Eve. Calling it a utopia is far from reality, for as long as man is still on this earth, the effects of oppression and connivery pervade from everywhere. Every day the effects of the innocent children being killed in Iraq are felt in my own heart. One of the great cries from those who have watched the film is their overwhelming concern for the “children”. I can only say, “what a bunch of BS”. If you are concerned about children, then you (Brits or Americans) could never give another cent to pay for a war ever again. Children are being abused (bombed, shot, starved, raped) in multitudes of counties by U.S. and British Military, paid for by the average Joe.

This is what was suggested by the narrator and the gullible fell for it. Jeff and Wendy intentionally separated prior to the events, so that they could be carried out. Do you not ever talk to God? If so, are you saying he never speaks back to you? That would be miserable!

No, these are scriptures which portray parables and symbols. His "excuse" is to obey his directions from God. Are you a christian? If you are, aren't you under the belief that if God asks you to do something, then you should do it? By the way, it was his son's former wife.

Can you expand on this please. Which Bible prophecies and how are they symbols? Michael Travesser symbolizes the True Husband. The true followers of God, regardless of religious affiliation, creed, race or color are symbolized as the Bride. The husband has returned to the earth to receive his bride and take her home with him. Kinda hate to do this, but you asked for it. Re 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Re 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. Re 22:17* And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, Mt 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. Mt 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. Mt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Mt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Mt 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Re 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Re 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. Mt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. Mt 25:7* Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. Mt 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. Re 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.