Thug
-
Posts
3,137 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
3
Content Type
Gallery
Downloads
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Articles
Media Demo
Store
Events
Posts posted by Thug
-
-
1 minute ago, fruitvilla said:
OK good. How did they get the rights?
They bought the land.
I know where you are going with this.
Not once have I said the Jewish people don’t have the right to be there.
Not ONCE.
The first ones that went over bought their land.
Fair do.If you don’t know what’s been going on since, then get out from under your rock.
-
33 minutes ago, KentVillan said:
@Thugthe ethnic origins of the Jewish population of Israel are much more complex than you seem to realise. Certainly not all Europeans, and the Mizrahi Jews have lived there as long as the Palestinians.
Plus Zionist migrations started over a century ago, and we now have most of the population of Israel having been born there, so unless you’re now arguing that a black British person born in London doesn’t have a right to be here, I’m not sure what your point is.
The historical rights and wrongs of the creation of Israel are something that can’t be reversed.
The only relevant question is how we arrive at a solution which respects the rights of all the peoples of the region. That’s not very straightforward at all as long as there are influential Israelis who just want to bomb the Palestinians out of existence, and influential Palestinians who’d be keen on doing the same to Israel.
Israel are evicting the Palestinians from their homes and ‘settling’ there.
im not talking about the historical wrongs and rights. I’m talking CURRENT.
-
1
-
-
38 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:
Do you believe people have rights to own land?
Yes.
-
3 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:
It is absurd ... but you appear to be arguing for this sort of thing. People who have or do not have 'rights' to a particular bit of land.
I’m not arguing that at all.
why do u say that?
Quotea. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.
b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party
This is the Likud party’s ideology.
They consider the Palestinians ’foreign’
-
1 hour ago, fruitvilla said:
Been there, done that too.
You know, do you know who we’re there before the Jewish people?
The Canaanites 4000 years ago.
Now take a look at this:
https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8
QuoteWe show that present-day Lebanese derive most of their ancestry from a Canaanite-related population, which therefore implies substantial genetic continuity in the Levant since at least the Bronze Age. In addition, we find Eurasian ancestry in the Lebanese not present in Bronze Age or earlier Levantines. We estimate that this Eurasian ancestry arrived in the Levant around 3,750–2,170 years ago during a period of successive conquests by distant populations.
QuoteMarc Haber, a geneticist at the Wellcome Trust’s Sanger Institute in Hinxton, United Kingdom, co-led a 2017 study of five Canaanite individuals from the coastal town of Sidon. The results showed that modern Lebanese can trace more than 90 percent of their genetic ancestry to Canaanites.
QuoteThe genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition.
Genetics suggests that the Arabs and the Jews are from the same descendants. How European descendants of the same people can have the ‘right’ to displace others with the same claim is beyond absurd.
-
4 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:
People who are descended from ancient Hebrews and other Semitic tribes.
In fact, I’m sure I’m descended from Adam, I might go get myself a nice yard in South Africa too.
-
Just now, fruitvilla said:
People who are descended from ancient Hebrews and other Semitic tribes.
That’s what I said.
I’ve descended from Abraham too. So I’m gonna go there after the bombing stops and nab myself a phat pad in Gaza.
By the way, the people that live there, you know, the non-indigenous ones, they are descended from those same tribes.
-
2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:
Who’s the indigenous people?
The Europeans that moved there obviously.
-
9 minutes ago, Awol said:
Saudis have told their nationals to evacuate Lebanon immediately.
This is very, very bad news.
-
1
-
-
12 minutes ago, bickster said:
Context is everything and you can be singular or plural and can be used as a general term for people. Its the latter in the context used. So can we get back to the other nonsense
Grammar and punctuation is everything.
The panda eats shoots and leaves.
Anyway, back to the nonsense.
-
21 minutes ago, bickster said:
No one said you were, read the reply again
30 minutes ago, meregreen said:If you want to be pedantic
-
6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:
Having analysed the situation I think the eventual outcomes will either be very bad or catastrophic.
You’re not wrong.
I honestly believe that the US & Israel are hoping that Iran get involved so that they have an excuse to destroy them.
It’s been a long time since there was a world war. American politicians are buying up shares in defence companies, knowing full well what is coming.
If anybody wants to make a quick buck, and doesn’t mind dirty money, buy shares in Lockheed Martin. You won’t regret it.
QuotePrevious Close441.13
Open436.56
Bid443.00 x 1100
Ask443.93 x 800
Day's Range442.15 - 446.70
52 Week Range393.77 - 508.10
Volume220,587
Avg. Volume1,214,790
Market Cap111.702B
in order not to anger the mods I’ve had to quote an extract above, but it’s pretty irrelevant, it’s the graph that you need to see
-
3 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:
Surely that's only partially true. They want the hostages released sure, but they also want to degrade Hamas to the point that it won't happen again. They're also playing to their own politics here as well. Any government that is seen to be unable to protects it's people won't be in power for long.
Not how I see it.
By accepting the hostages back, it weakens their stance to achieve what the actually want.
They will kill their own citizens in air strikes before they’d lose any PR traction.
-
Just now, meregreen said:
Of course it should, no reasonable person could think otherwise, Hamas however are committed to the destruction of Israel, so I doubt they would agree. The Palestinian authority in the West Bank still have people that could reach an accord with Israel, but sadly that seems further away than ever now. And so it goes on, tragic.
And israel are committed to the destruction of Palestine. Why do you leave that bit out?
-
1
-
-
13 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:
Although I think they have a right to defend themselves, I’m broadly anti-Israel because I see them as having deliberately sabotaged the peace process over the last two decades so they can settle more occupied land. Until that changes, the violence is going to continue.
But this thread really does make it obvious that for some people Israel will always be at fault, no matter the situation or what the evidence says.
If you’re referring to me, then not true.
When Hamas did what they did I was absolutely against it. That wasn’t Israel’s fault. There is a backdrop to that adds perspective but doesn’t excuse it, or justify it - it was 100% wrong. Not only was it wrong it was stupid, reckless, and a PR disaster. They have brought the wrath of a superpower upon themselves, and that is understandable.
They should release the hostages unconditionally and immediately. There is no blame in that scenario to Israel.
But cutting off water supplies, blocking humanitarian aid, and indiscriminate bombing is unacceptable, and these are all things considered war crimes for this exact reason. It is universally accepted that it is unacceptable.
It needs to stop, for the love of humanity - and a better solution than collective punishment found.
On a side note:
I don’t know the validity, or why there hasn’t been any progress on this front… you’d think this was what israel wanted?
-
2
-
-
1 minute ago, meregreen said:
There’s never been a war without civilian casualties. War is a terrible thing.
And therefore the war should stop, no?
-
9 minutes ago, Awol said:
So you provide an example of threats by an old Israeli government to annex more (illegal) settlements on the West Bank? Unequivocally bad AND illegal, but it’s not Gaza, and it’s not murdering 2 million people who have literally nowhere else to go.
I thought you might actually be serious about the genocide stuff for a minute, happy to be wrong about that.
My point is they’ve done it before
-
4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:
So where's the evidence of hundreds of casualties at this hospital other than it being a claim from a Palestinian source last night?
Were there hundreds of people out there in that carpark?
Oh, ok.
you win.
I don’t have any evidence.
The Palestinian are lying.
Carry on ‘bombing’ - which I also don’t have any evidence of, so maybe I should rephrase that:
carry on bombing if you are bombing in the first place at all.
-
1 minute ago, Davkaus said:
See, I'm trying trying to engage in good faith and explain about the contrary claims that muddy the water, with no real preconceptions or a particular view I want to believe, and this is the rubbish you come back with
Much easier to just deflect and call everyone idiots. You crack on.
But what is it that you’re unsure of?
What exactly is it that you can’t see?
What evidence are you looking for?
that’s not engagement.
It’s saying ‘well, is it REALLY happening though? We don’t know for sureeeeee’
Look, the problem here is that even the people in the ‘middle’ like yourself are questioning whether the situation on the ground is as bad as it’s made out to be.
What hope is there for the bombing to end while even people like yourself are doubting it?
-
3 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:
Give me 30 minutes and I’ll make video showing a white blob appearing from the other direction.
-
7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:
There's that arrogance I was talking about. I've not expressed much of an opinion either way so you're just throwing punches at strawmen.
I'm happy to admit I've got very little idea what's going on. I've seen the removed tweets from Israeli reps, I've seen videos that claim to show a rocket launched from Palestine exploding. I've seen videos that claim to be from today that seem to show the hospital still standing, with no evidence for these hundreds and hundreds of casualties?
What's real, what's fake news?
Oh it’s all fake news.
Theres not even air strikes.
water is flowing like it’s never flowed before.
2 people died in the last 6 days. One from a heart attack, and one jumped off a bridge because he’s a chelsea fan.
-
32 minutes ago, Awol said:
Okay I’ll play. Where are the 2 million Palestinians of Gaza in this scenario?
Egypt won’t let them in, neither will Jordan. None of the Sunni monarchies will. Nor would Iran or Lebanon. Clearly Israel won’t.
So in your scenario above, Israel now needs to murder two million Palestinians to take ownership of the Gaza Strip. Is that what you think?
Ok, now that you put it so eloquently, you’re right.
Israel would never do that.
Never.
QuoteIsrael/OPT: 10 things you need to know about “annexation”
On 20 April, following Israel’s third election within 10 months, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his political rival Benny Gantz formed a governing coalition under a unity deal. Included in this deal is an agreement allowing Israel’s government to start the domestic process of “annexing” parts of the occupied West Bank that includes Israeli settlements and the area of the Jordan Valley.
According to the coalition deal between Netanyahu and Gantz, the government can bring “annexation” plans to debate and approval of the cabinet and Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, starting 1 July 2020.
Israel’s “annexation” plan follows the announcement by US President Donald Trump of his so-called “deal of the century” in January 2020, which proposed that areas of the occupied West Bank be annexed by Israel.
Amnesty International has made it clear that the Trump Administration’s plan would serve only to worsen human rights violations and enshrine the entrenched impunity that has fueled decades of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and other grave violations.
According to reports, the Israeli proposal could include as much as 33% of the total area of West Bank.
Here are 10 things you need to know about “annexation”
-
4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:
It's a bit arrogant to think this only goes one way though. In the fog of war, in a age in which so much can be faked and fake news spreads at the speed of light, there's very little information that can really be trusted.
It came from the Israelis themselves! They tweeted they bombed the hospital!!!
Oh my god.
-
Just now, Davkaus said:
It's a bit arrogant to think this only goes one way though. In the fog of war, in an age in which so much can be faked and fake news spreads at the speed of light, there's very little information that can really be trusted.
Lol.
there hasn’t been a fog for the last few years while they were stealing homes and creating settlements.
You weren’t blinded by the fog of war then.
fog or no fog. Your eyes will only see what they want to see.
Israel, Palestine and Iran
in Off Topic
Posted
Just say what you want to say, I’m not playing this 20 questions game