danceoftheshamen

There seems to be common agreement that we can't have them both? Or at least that we shouldn't. I wonder what would happen if we won the FA Cup and finished 4th, ie worst case scenario? Portsmouth-Everton fate combined? I think that is actually quite nice that as a whole we are not EXPECTING both!! Bet it would be somewhat different with many other fans especially those with top4itis. The poll is coming along nicely with exactly 100 votes cast so far there is literally nothing in it!! JUST 1 vote separating the FA cup/4th place options!! Indeed could we be any more split on this NO WONDER MARTIN O'NEILL COULD'NT GET A READ ON THIS!! For me though the important thing is that although we would all love to win the FA cup or finish 4th, & ok in our wildest dreams get both, our expectations also in my humble opinion are actually very realistic. On the 4th place thing, which is what i personally feel COULD, long term, be of most overall benefit to Aston Villa FC, i would say that although that on it's own could not really be classed as "winning" something in the sense that the FA cup would be, but it would "open more doorways". Basically it would put us in one of the top 4 positions on the starting grid. Not guaranteeing "world stars" but certainly a higher calibre of player than we have been able to attract thus far? For me getting 4th is "grasping hold of the bottom of the ladder which takes you to the top of the tree" so to speak. Yes you could still fall off but if you don't grab it you will NEVER reach the top. Also there is some urgency involved in doing it THIS season if at all possible as of course it may be much much harder next season with Man city having more chance to throw their billions about & who knows which other club will be taken over by some Trillionaire anytime soon!! So for me to get it this year would be MASSIVE!!

Ok 1 or 2 in some earlier posts on this thread asking for a straight poll on what .. as a supporter you would prefer to win this season/achieve if you had a choice? Should we be fortunate enough to achieve something this year that is of course. It is quite interesting how much everyone appears to be split on this! So i've added a poll above!

One word.....Everton!!! Lol...TRUE!! Pressure would sure be on to buy well!! Or of course as Cheltenham_Villa states maybe Martin would not do things that way & would stick with his methods of buying solid British players & bringing young players through..Which i don't mind at all but question whether it is quite enough to be chasing titles etc?!

It is indeed sad but to be successful.... long term... It surely HAS to be 4th? I mean winning the FA cup is not really going to attract a better calibre of player?... Put us in the shop window yes... but it's the Champs League all the best players want to play in. Jamiebavfc states above "what happens if we go out in the qualifying rounds? which could of course happen!! BUT you would hope by then that the club would have by that point purchased 1 or 2 players off the back of us finishing 4th (Hyperthetically of course) so even if that happened it would have improved the side giving us a better chance of maintaining 4th, or even better!?

very much this, although i think we may be in the minority fella. this also. would love to land the FA Cup. but i think getting 4th denotes us as a bigger club, and moves us further forward Agreed Jon.. Champs league puts you on the map internationally & opens the door to the TOP players & also is much more financially beneficial which means you have more chance of paying those players wages!!

Was rather fascinated at Martin's comments on the Sky Sports post match interview last night after the Wigan away win. In it he states when asked about whether us fans would prefer to win the FA cup or finish 4th.... " LINK http://www.skysports.com/football/team/0,19734,11677,00.html He says.. "i,m never sure about our fans, i remember last year there was a real hulabaloo when we fielded some younger players in a UEFA cup game out in Russia when we had put a very strong side out in the 1st leg but hadn't been able to get a big advantage. So there was a big hue & cry at that particular time to say we hadn't played our strongest side & of course our league form dipped after that & people were starting to say it was because of that. I couldn't see the relevance of it at all & this year we've battled very very strongly...." So i thought i would state how i feel about this so Martin knows as he genuinely seems a touch uncertain Personally i would firstly like us to qualify for the Champions League as this would surely have the best overall benefit for the good of Aston Villa FC. This would enable us to attract a higher calibre of player (& hopefully that world class striker & midfield playmaker we could do with ) HOWEVER!! i can fully understand the mixed feelings from other fans who would simply love to see some silverware for the 1st time in over a DECADE!! So as fans i guess we are somewhat torn emotionally between the "INSTANT" glory of an FA cup win or the long term & massively desirable benefits of qualifying for the Champions League!! So i think this may be where the "panic" came from last year.. Not a deliberate attack on Martin as such for picking a young side but more just sheer panic & desperation at seeing yet another potential trophy slip away!! Especially when you consider the lack of European action there has been since 1982!! Surely but surely for the long term good of the club it HAS to be Champions League 1st .... but it would also be fantastic to get the FA cup for the 1st time lets not forget SINCE 1957!!!! So there is your answer Martin! What could come over as disrespectful jibes over your managerial judgement is for me actually nothing more than a BURNING desire for a trophy as many of the fans here have never seen one won!! This has probably made many very sensitive to the issue. In other words it's actually PASSION which surely has to be.... overall... a good thing?

I think there is a danger of just looking at that one incident & if it was just that one incident i would agree with you. BUT!! The fact is Villa were doing fantastically well went 1-0 up & were causing all sorts of problems for Utd. It could have been even better had Vidic gone as he obviously should have done but still Villa were doing great even after that incident & Goal. What really damaged us for me was the whole string of one sided decisions that then followed. Every time a Villa player made a tackle he was yellow carded & then they had to observe identical challenges going against them with no cards issued. THAT IS WHAT KNACKERED US!!! You could physically see it rattled our players especially the defenders who were by then nearly all yellow carded! That is when mistakes started to happen one of which of course led to the equaliser which then turned the game. The confidence went & suddenly we lost our threat... Against a team of Man Utd's calibre that is all it takes... Game over & no cup.. ALL DUE TO DODGY OFFICIATING!! So yes if it was just the Vidic incident then fine .... move on etc etc but what happened afterwards was just as disgraceful & if anything even worse. That was the real cause of us losing our initial momentum. I mean how on earth were our players supposed to match United's commitment when we were getting booked for it & they were not? Were they supposed to carry on & finish up with 8 players on the pitch? So of course it was the reason for Utd "appearing" to have the edge over us & "out playing" us when in fact the Villa players were probably just too afraid to get in their faces anymore for fear that that idiot of a ref would send them off. Let's be realistic that is part of what you need to do to beat Utd just look at Leeds victory in the FA cup over them. So No ..... For me Mr Phillip Dowd had already decided the outcome of that game before we even kicked off.. You could say Manchester United's name was on the cup all along.............................................................................................................. If it was it was Phil dowd who had engraved it on there!!!!!

This! Exactly! We were by far the better team up until the nonsense with the "yellow,s for us & none for them" thing happened. So i totally agree with the above post as it's correct. The players looked totally baffled & started to make basic errors one of which cost us the equaliser. This was obviously down to the SHOCKING officiating as it would be.. Every time they made any sort of committed challenge they were straight in the book & yet they are also watching Vidic get nothing when he should have been off & several UTD players getting nothing for identical or even worse tackles?!! WOULDN'T YOU BE A TOUCH RATTLED?

I am proud of the lads: Not so much today as i felt many of our more experienced players had a below average day but this post is not to slate anybody!! Rather to acknowledge that we are definitely a team on the up & for me a top class midfielder & striker away from having a pop at titles in the next year or 2!! As for Phil Dowd?!! :shock: What oh what was going on there? I have posted many many posts on here & other sites regarding the FA's "Top 4-a-thon" as well as Fifa's game & tournament manipulation tactics. You know? The one's for example like...lets say....the game in Italy hits the ropes for .. as it happens..... match rigging allegations being PROVED.......Then half their top sides being fined, docked points & relegated....Fifa,in my humble opinion see all this & think..."oh dear, one of our major footballing nations has got real trouble.... crowds are turning away in their droves & are all up in arms we could see the collapse of the game over there!!! That means XXXX less in the coffers this year what do we do?!!!!!!................. Then.... as it happens... They (Italy) get "gifted" game after game by shocking decisions from the officials (employed by & designated by FIFA don't forget) on their way to winning the World cup?! the year after!!...... Game over there recovers.... everyone's happy!! .. I am not saying it is anywhere near as bad over here mind you, just "nearly" as bad! This is why FIFA, UEFA & the FA point blank refuse to have video replays as they would lose this "control". Why else? The technology is there already after all & has even been used successfully in many other sports for many years.. Cricket, American football etc. The only argument would be the delay & disruption in the flow of the game but would that really be an issue?.... I think not. . ... Bear in mind we are talking about "Key" decisions only. So if a Ref awards a penalty, a goal or sends someone off or has a decision which could result in a sending off al la in today's game.. (you would surely imagine that these would be the key decisions in question?!)......The play is already broken up & it takes a couple of minutes to 1. Stop the arguments & surrounding of the Ref from the players. ...2. To set up the penalty or get the wall set up etc..etc.. So there is a delay in play ANYWAY!! So for me each manager should have 3 yellow flags which they can use to request an independent video replay. Surely if anything it would add an extra dimension to events which could actually be really good fun? One thing is for certain Villa would have played for 85 mins against 10 men & would most likely be holding the Carling cup now had this been the case today!! Instead we must now look to Reading away & the even more desirable............................... FA cup!!!

For me it is quite simply poor quality strikers which keep costing us. Good strikers have that composure in front of goal.. That is what makes the difference compared with an average one. Composure means a cool head when given an opportunity. i.e. quickly weighing up the options, making the correct choice & executing what is normally a straightforward finish. Well all i see from our strikers is hesitation when an opportunity arises, then an inability to make the correct choice followed by panicky shooting on realising that yet again they have fluffed the chance. IN OTHER WORDS TOTALLY THE OPPOSITE TO WHAT A QUALITY STRIKER DOES!!!! Result: LACK OF GOALS.

not amazing but certainly a very good window.. Due to finally getting the numbers in defence so we don't have to keep playing Reo Coker at RB & L Young at LB & also getting 2 very sought after players in Delph & Downing. This will mean competition for every position for the 1st time since Martin & Randy took charge!! Squad is Deffo getting there now for some real class next summer!!

It is just he (Heskey) hardly ever seems to get to the ball in the vital moment!! I used to think it was a poor service to him but tonight (Vienna game) he had good service just didn't even get close!! good player just no poachers instinct As i said it should be Hexkey

Am trying to look at positives ..... AH well ... here's to trying!!! Cold harsh facts are we could easily have conceded 3 or 4 tonight but for poor finishing on their part.. Up front we created absolutely nothing!!! It was all we could do to get a cross in let alone a shot!! midfield creativity is SHOCKING!!! there is none. There keeper had 0 saves to make & that is simply as bad as it gets

A young :shock: :shock: Have watched him in pre season.. for England ... Against Wigan ... & tonight & have yet to see him do anything at all!!!!!! Midfield no creation whatsoever.. Strikers no accuracy & defenders prone to awful mistakes!!!! in fact for me we were just horrible & very hard to watch & don't even look like creating a half chance let alone score"!" AWFUL

Well here's my 2p's worth!! On MON i would say stay for now as most on here seem to be saying.. One thing is for certain though & that is if DE was still here MON would now be on a vote of confidence. On what MON stated today after the Wigan game "we looked tired which i cannot understand after the good pre season. "WELL MARTIN I CAN UNDERSTAND IT & INDEED PREDICTED IT BEFORE THE GAME!!" The best players from pre season in Carew, NRC, Albrighton, Sidwell, Guzan were not in the flippin team today?? Most of that lot today were not "game sharp". For instance Young, Heskey & Milner had been in Holland earlier this week for the international, Petrov had been injured in pre season & Delph has only played 1 game. Also Beye has hardly had chance to say hello & Agbonlahor & Fonz had an extended holiday!!!! IS IT REALLY ANY SUPRISE WE DIDN'T GEL??? Come on Martin surely this was obvious?

Considering the rather amusing comments made by the new blues chairman about wanting a team of oriental players i thought it kind of opens a doorway to updating anti Blues songs, which lets face it are rather boring really, into something much more fun & not so offensive by taking the mickey of their new ownership... such as ..... "slit on the wity..... slit on the wity tonight!!"

Hi General, I used to post occasionally on the official site but have found recently it is almost impossible to use properly.... By this i mean it is ok when posting replies on existing threads but whenever i try to start a new thread, 9 times out of 10, when i hit the POST button it comes up with a message saying "you must be signed in" even though i am signed in!.. when i then try to re-sign in it says "you could not be signed in" I assume because i am already signed in! .. This is very frustrating as it takes a while to log in, sign in write a message etc & to be honest it has become a bit pointless trying to use it... I do like to contribute however... It is not my PC as i have tried using various different ones but with the same result... Is this a problem with the site in general?

Hi General, me & my wife have just recently had a baby girl, our 1st child. She is now 3 months old & i had a look at the club shop as i was excited about getting something for her.. something to wear preferably. Unfortunately i must admit to being rather dissapointed with the range of product avaliable... Any plans to broaden the choice in the near future? Not just of the baby clothes but in general ? Also thanks for the info about "satellite towns & cities", It has been a bone of contention with me for years so thats very satisfying news!

General.. I have over the last 20 years or so lived in many of the "satallite" towns & cities surrounding Birmingham including Worcester, Kidderminster, Bromsgrove & currently Burton-upon-Trent near Derby.. There is in all these places a sizeable Villa support which i must say i feel is un-tapped & has, since the heady days of the early 80's, become somewhat distanced from the club. Are there any plans to reach out to these folk? Maybe a system of suppoters clubs which are publicised in the local press who could run coaches to home & away games could be a possibility? I know these clubs exist but feel in the area's i have mentioned there is a huge void of them.