Awol

Precisely. If there is one thing Arabs hate more than infidels, it's other Arabs.

Iran is Shia, Hezbollah are a Shia outfit (or more properly an army without a state) and Assad's Alawite sect are Shia. The Syrian rebels are Sunni mostly whichb is why Saudi and Qatar are backing them and Iran backing Assad both directly and by proxy - Hezbollah. The big game is Sunni Saudi versus Shia Iran. If Israeli jets ever hit Iran's nuclear sites they will have flown through air corridors in Saudi airspace provided to them for the purpose. Most of the ME is anti-Israel in rhetoric only, they have good relations with most of the Gulf at government level.

Wishful thinking there I feel. Who exactly do you think is going to step up to Israel? Turkey have got their hands full with Syria, Jordan are trying to contain their Arab spring before it really starts, Egypt still rely on US money and are financially in the poop, the only player willing to have a go is Iran and even they can't do much more than they already are doing apart from setting Lebanon on fire. No, the Arabs don't give a **** about the Palestinians when it comes down to it (otherwise some of that oil money would have had them in homes instead of refugee camps in neighbouring countries), they are like the Romany of the Middle East.

Hamas is a creature of Iran not Saudi, and are allied to the Muslim Brotherhood running Egypt. The rockets they are firing come from Iran via Sudan mostly hence the Israeli air raid to destroy the factory that assembled them in Khartoum a few weeks ago. From there they were transported through Egypt to Gaza. The Izzies know they have loads more which is why the ground invasion will probably go ahead to destroy them. Likewise Hezbollah is basically an arm of the Iranian military and can be expected to start poking Israel soon, although at the moment they are devoting a lot of resources and manpower to supporting Assad in Syria.

They do what all politicians do, promised to be better than the other guy. Then they killed the other guy to make sure he couldn't return the favour.

Still in control of the West Bank but they were mostly murdered (literally) by Hamas in Gaza during the latter's take over.

Apparently not, they are now saying 75,000.

At least he was honest - and spot on in my view.

How on earth do you negotiate with people whose avowed intent is to destroy your country while they are indiscriminately throwing rockets at your civilian population? Also you keep mentioning this illegal land grab. If you mean the establishment of the state of Israel then clearly there was nothing illegal about it. They are not trying to "grab" Gaza. If you mean the West Bank then I agree completely.

Israel has already struck over 200 Hamas targets in Gaza by air with relatively few civilian casualties. If their intent was simply to kill randomly then Gaza would be wall to wall dead people by now. other than targeted air strikes I don't know how they could "go after" Hamas without a ground invasion, an altogether more bloody proposition for both sides.

Sorry are you talking about 1948 when many Palestinians were encouraged by Arab governments to leave their homes in the wake of Israel being established? Hmmmm. Why did they do that? Was it so they were out of the way when the Arab armies declared war, overran Israel and drove the Jews into the sea the day after Israeli independence? Except it didn't quite work out like that and on the "Day of Catastrophe" David beat Goliath leaving those Palestinian refugees in a very difficult spot. But they didn't all leave (by any stretch of the imagination) and those who stayed became citizens of Israel. They now enjoy political and social freedoms that their Arab brothers in the region could only dream about, including their kin in Gaza labouring under a terrorist theocracy.

Peter, Israel is not occupying Gaza, they have no desire to be there and there are precisely zero Israeli settlements there. The West Bank is illegally occupied, the settlements are illegal and they shouldn't be there, as many Israeli citizens themselves recognise. That is not related to Rev's incorrect statement that building on the land of Israel itself is outlawed by the UN or that doing so threatens the Gaza Strip. The people of Gaza have not been dispossessed of their land (although the West Bank Palestinians certainly have been) and they have the ability to import whatever they chose through Egypt - including large amounts of war material from Iran with which to attack Israeli cities. Just as a point of consideration Israel was not in the West Bank until they were attacked by Jordan and others. They occupied the territory as a result to provide a buffer zone against further invasions. If their neighbours would renounce all violence against Israel then they would have no justification to remain there.

If they have to deploy 10,000's of regulars into Gaza then the reservists will be needed to back fill the gaps those regular troops leave in the defences elsewhere. Bear in mind the Syrians have fired across the border several times at Israeli units and I believe (but may be wrong) that the Golan is on full alert.

If as they have in this thread, people post that it would be for the best if Israel was wiped off the map then that is anti-semitic, is it not? Coming from a bunch who are usually holier-than-thou guardianistas only makes the depth of their hatred more obvious. It's easy to disagree with Israeli policies but still hold a more nuanced and less extremist view than that.

I'm sorry for this but again, what your saying is complete bollocks. What other country is not allowed to build up to its own border in case the neighbours don't like it? Hamas are rocketing cities up to 25km inside Israel, where exactly do you want them to live, and why the hell should where they live be dictated by a bunch of murderous religious fruitcakes? It's true Israel are building illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank (clearly wrong) but there is no restriction on them or any nation building within their own borders, period. Personally I'd like to see Israel withdraw to '67 borders and have NATO guarantee the integrity of those boundaries, however most Israeli's would probably be reluctant to bet their future on a bunch of anti-semites, and a cursory read over this thread would amply explain why..

No offence but this stuff about there being UN resolutions against Israel building in their own territory is utter nonsense. I don't know if you've been to Israel but the place is about the size of a postage stamp in international terms. Have a look at this to give you some idea of scale: Where exactly do you want them to live in their own country (so as not to offend anyone)?

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." - Golda Meir I tend to agree.

No democratic state can tolerate its citizenry being bombarded by a neighbour. I applaud the Israeli's for not sitting back and letting that happen by taking the action necessary to reduce that threat. There is no panacea to the problem because Hamas will never make peace, but in the mean time proportionate action to protect their people is fair and I won't condemn it. During Cast Lead a few years ago I was condemning the use of WP shells by the Israeli's because it was a) not proportionate, and illegal. Should they walk into Gaza this time and start executing civilians then clearly no one in their right mind could support that action. It is unfortunate that civilian casualties are occurring in Gaza but when the alternative is doing nothing I don't see what choice the Israeli's have. Smetrov, You talk about the "Palestinian People's land" without acknowledging that the Jews have been there since the time of Moses. Strange how the Muslim invasion and occupation of the Holy Land is completely ignored and they are seen as the rightful residents. It smacks more than a little of taking a selective view of the region's history to me.

No, but when their cities, towns and villages are being bombarded (as they were before the latest Israeli action) then I think slating them for responding in defence of their civilians is preposterous. Given some of the other comments here suggesting that genocide against them would be a good thing, one might appreciate why the Israeli's are less prepared to take shit.

And the rockets Hamas are firing at Israeli cities are intended to do what exactly, tickle people? Some posters here need a serious **** reality check. The fascists of Hamas took over Gaza by force, by killing their secular Fatah rivals. Those posters championing Hamas are either 1) historically ignorant (see Rev's post about Hamas being driven from their lands in Southern Israel - need to pick up a history book there, chief), or 2) flat out anti-semitic hypocrites who are cheering proxies of the Iranian Ayatollah like he's a boss. Comments about how Israel was Britain's greatest mistake, how it should be wiped off the map or how the Jews should 'go home' make me want to puke. If you substituted Israeli's for Muslims, brown people, Pakistani's etc the same individuals making those comments would be screaming "BNP" and "Fascist" from the rooftops - and rightly so. Fortunately the Israeli's are immune to the opinions of the chattering classes in the UK and will do whatever they need to do to ensure the protection of their citizens, for which I applaud them. Anyone with the wit to put the situation in the regional context might observe the following: Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria are clients of Iran (Hamas are firing Iranian military rockets at Israeli cities) and that country has stoked Hamas to begin a campaign against Israel in the south that will tie down large numbers of the IDF. This serves two potential purposes: making it more difficult to address events on the northern border (it would be no surprise to see a new front opened against Israel by Hezbollah at Iranian direction - and Syrian forces loyal to Assad have been firing at Israeli forces in the Golan unprovoked), and secondly these actions put Israel on the defensive, making it less likely that they will have the time and space to deal directly with Iran's nuclear weapon programme. The Iranians (and the rest of the Arab world for that matter) don't give a shit about the Palestinians, they are just useful idiots. Anyone who thinks Hamas are operating without direction from Iran needs to give their heads a wobble. This current mess is as much about Syria and Iran as it is about the poor oppressed Gazans. Finally Egypt aren't going to do anything, all of Israel's neighbours that have tried to make a sport out of kills Jews have have their arses handed to them. The Egyptians learned that lesson long ago. +1

Where, Judea?

What a bone comment, Tone. That the Israeli body count is lower is not through lack of trying on the part of the Pallys.

What do you suggest, drive them into the sea?

Where? How? Do you know what ethnic cleansing means?

Reports that two Iranian Fajr-5 rockets struck in the area of Tel Aviv (fired from Gaza). Ground invasion looks almost certain now, imo.