TRO

I think we have to accept that the board are going to take a patient approach whatever we think.

MacDonald has confirmed he has to make his decision on whether he wants to be considered for the job on Sunday. That doesn't mean he is the board's number one choice though.

Personally I can't help being disappointed because a new manager, whoever he is, is more than likely to miss out on bringing anyone in during this window. Randy has done wonders for this club but right now we need urgency for once because otherwise this season is going to end before it starts.

you can write this season off.....interms of football development.

There is a nasty rumour started by a Sky Sports journo that Phil Brown is at VP.

Jesus Wept!

we will all be given a bottle of sun tan lotion instead of a free scarf.

What did you do MM?

Grew some balls and told some home truths . We got to start getting a bit more ruthless in my opinion and stop being part of a Gentlemans club its dog eat dog sometimes . I have faith in Randy but this is new territory and it's the first time I have started to have doubts . But I maintain ONeil timing is the biggest issue but countering that something should have been bought to a head sooner in my opinion . We will no doubt learn from this .

"we have got to start getting a bit more ruthless" & " stop being part of a gentlemans club.

That is one of the best lines I've read on this site.

it will be our eventual undoing if we arn't careful.

RANDY NEEDS TO BRING IN A WELL CONNECTED FOOTBALL MAN IN TO HIS TEAM

If this was already in place he would have had more confidence to see through O'Neill before so much damage was done.

I actually disagree with most of that.

with Martin O'Neills Tenure it was like the curates egg good in parts.

you cannot talk about the good bits, if you are conveniently prepared to leave out the bad bits.

Martin O'Neill ran the club, in footballing terms and none of his decisions could ever be challenged without a falling out seems like concensus was not one of Martins plus points. That is all well and good when you are winning championships or playing the kind of swashbuckling football that would suggest that you are only around the corner from winning the title like Ron Saunders,but we were not. I am not going to belittle the acheivement of 6-6-6, but equally our home wins of 7-7-10-8 had a kind of negating effect on things.

we played a kind of style that didn't rely on keeping the ball or passing it with aplomb and it manifested itself in inconsitency..... just as we wer going on a bit of a run an abrupt end would appear as quickly as it started.

The quality of individual players play did not improve that much for me the odd player like Milner or young did show some obvious improvement, but most of the rest did'nt seem to improve like under some previous managers.

It is extremely difficult to fend off the kind of wages offered by Man city....I'll bet similar conversations were going on with the Liverpool fans the other night, by not signing Barry.

Martin O'Neill was not a bad manager far from it a good manager, yes reasonably so..... a great manager never.

Money is not the problem here, we have had it and mismanaged most of it in my view.... some of it has been well spent and ironically most of that was done in Martins early stay with us, so you could say the quality of signings gradually got worse not better.....if that is so, funny description of progress.

Players leave for More money....that is an established fact, but they also leave if they think nothing is going on, not much chance of getting anywhere, Barry and Milner could well of thought that.The vibes from the training ground that i've heard don't fill you with the joys of spring for the previous regime......perhaps the discipline approach took him as far as he could go.

If Martin O'Neill felt for the club, like he portrayed, he would not of walked out.Many managers like Moyes get denied money, but they don't just up and out....especialy 5 days before kick off to maximise the damage, it was mooted on the sunday supplement that some of the journo's had an inclin back in march... if thats the case this is all the more spiteful.He went because he was being questioned and that did'nt sit comfomtable with him.

Right now, it will look like, we can't even attract a manager as good as O'Neill, when lower placed clubs like Fulham, Blackburn have no difficulty.

while every club seems to be looking for King Midas, i think they are missing a trick.

A manager with a coherent and logical plan, with a footballing pedigree, who has an obvious eye for a player, can set up a meaningful scouting network and has belief in himself.... is out there waiting for someone like us to give them a chance in the same way Jose Mourinho did at porto.... of course we will lose him at some stage, but he will do a lot of good along the way.

The people who say we will never do this that or the other are wrong.

If we choose the right man to come in and get started Randy is the right man to do it with....I don't believe Kevin Macdonald is either.

Randy right now needs some help spotting a young up and coming gem as a manager.

If we read between the lines of the Generals latest post I think we can fairly take it as evidence that we will not be getting a big name, rather we will be getting someone in desperate enough for the job, but us fans aren't desperate for him to take it ie a Bob Bradley or someone along those lines.

Last week General stated we would get the best man in for the job. Now all the talented managers are at clubs, or doing something else....yeh..

So are we meant to force these managers to join us our, by kidnaping them?

We cannot force people to come!

Hes right all the current decent managers are employed, otherwise they wouldn't be employed would they?

You need to get real its not football manager.

No, we can approach other clubs and pay a compensation package.

Oh right.

And you know we wont do that how?

So what if the manager doesn't want to come? Threaten them?

So Lerner goes from buying us, bringing in MON (basically) investing every year, done above and beyond to improve us yet overnight just because MON left he is useless, we're terrible and poorly run?

At the same time because he 'might' not be continuing pumping millions in he is also being questioned.

He supported MON to the hilt and whos fault is it that were not at the point he thought we would, not MON's no not his still Randys fault!

Absolute joke!

As people have already stated something has obviously changed. The whole summer has been an absolute travesty. No communication with the board and manager, and it appears as if they didn't discuss the transfer budget until August.

Clubs with ambition to still go for it go out of their way to get a man in that can realise their ambitions and objectives. Will Bradley guide us to the champions league? Lol..I don't think so.

Clubs with ambitions and desires to do well in the PL go for competent, known managers. They get in contact with that club and offer a financial package. Last week General said we would get the best man in, within 6 days his language has changed completely and it looks as if the club will be looking at less known managers.

The simple fact is Bob Bradley isn't going to get the crowds flocking to Villa Park. He isn't going to get people to spend their hard earned cash on away trips in December.

And of course I don't know that the club haven't made approaches. However, the media always have a few known names that are in contention for the post. Who have we had? Bob Bradley? Gareth Southgate?

Lol, tells you all about the ambition of the club now, settling for shit.

You seem to be able to see into the future and know all these negative futures.

Why did MON come to Villa? Ellis or Lerner.

How can he go from appointing someone decent to someone terrible for the club?

No communication between the board and manager, you know this how?

Ambition?

Is Randy meant to magic this money out of think air, where does it come from?

He has invested massively in Villa millions and millions.

Our fans are bloody spoilt and ridiculous.

This may come as one massive surprise to certain people here, but to get anywhere close to the top four you have to invest millions and millions. It isn't a cheap route to go down.

you only have to spend millions and millions if you don't know what your doing.....of course you need money but you need nous too.

...ONE WITH TACTICAL NOUS....please god.

But we were brilliant last week.

Well, we were VERY GOOD last week, I wouldnt say brilliant

And we were playing West Ham

Biggets mistake MacDonald made today was trying to play Ireland and Petrov as a midfield two. It was never going to work

You have to have an anchor in there to protect the back 4. Milner's enegry and graft meant he did the work of 2 men.

Should've rested Marc, stuck Ash on the left and NRC just in front of the back 4. That doesnt mean I rate NRC, becaise I think he's about as limited as a footballer can be. But needs must

that is basic football common sense what you have suggested and we have failed once again to apply it.

I don't agree with you Appriasal of Reo Coker as i think he is much better than folk say....to leave him out for 60 mins ( by which time the damage was done) imo was futile.

shows to me the manager is a puppet of O'NEILL.

Randy needs to search for some really good advice on this as he is in danger of all his investment going up in smoke.

When is somebody at the club going to understand the role of a defensive midfield player......and plug it.

we are simply wide open.

exposing the defence and the offensive players in abundance are having to come back and play at holding it together.

....different bowler same bowling.

we should have gone tight right from the start and kept the crowd quite and worked our way in to the game by frustrating them.

this is just naive football.

In some quarters Randy is the villain for selling Milner and setting us up as a selling club, but there seems to be bit a bit of irony here.

If Martins many other signings had matched up to Milner and Young and we hade gone on to do things in a more convincing manner, (similar to 1977)rather than limp over the 6th place line.... would Milner had wanted to go?

Money is a big head turner, but if we had of produced a scintillating team, tearing the opposition up....I have my doubts that Milner or Barry would have left.

In my view O'Neill was the architect of his own demise.

give Mac donald a run with a high profile director of football to attract players and advise Lerner.

There were racist taunts at some of our black players too, fortunately they are street wise and game them the finger.

.... so why would a rookie manager like Kevin Macdonald be put under so much un necessary pressure to be involved in making a claim, when he is probably quite happy to be uninvolved.

This is a money exercise, not a football exercise, unfortunately, thats is the sums involved.

indeed it is a money exercise, and the transfer in of ireland looks like a means to an end determined by money. Why get the manager involved? Because he's the best qualified on the footballs aspects of it, and villa is there to compete at football, not money.

We have by most judgements got the better of the deal, but I'm certain that city have got the better player out of it. They can afford it, they don't care about the cost, it seems.

I don't like that balance, I don't like that villa is possibly worrying about the detail of the deal and city about the detail of the best player. Straight cash, theres no argument, the money is there, or as much of it as we can afford to be used for another player, but getting in a player when we don't need to, and forgoing the cash is a risk and i don't know or see why it has been done that way, especially given the reservations we've expressed about Ireland. He might do really well, I hope he does, sincerely. He is talented, but there's a lot of questions over his future career prospects.

Man Utd once signed Cantona for 1 mill.....I mill.

would that transaction suggest Leeds hadn't got a clue how to value a player.

Don't be surprised if Stephen Ireland turns out better than Milner.I'm not saying he will... but quite easily he could. Its all about opinions.

its also intriguing, that one of Martin's crony sports journalist's said he thought he was off in March, by his body language and demeanor. Does that mean he had no interest in the Milner deal one way or another?

Maybe a call to mourinho asking who would be the next up a coming manager you would fear might bear some fruit.

Kevin is the man for the job (depending on results against Rapid, and Newcastle of course)

.....so thats the criteria?

In reply to the massive long quote, no I don't know why mon left. I have a pretty good idea of some of the reasons I have a good idea of some of the things going on, but no I don't know why he left. Like James Milner, he'll keep his pronouncements to himself,too, I'd reckon.

facts are not for this site opinions are more interesting.....you are well versed , spill the beans.

no one will kill you for being wrong.

..bit of a lightweight for me, but yes impressed on his overall.

Think Albrighton is the only true winger.

while the whole world wants to join Man city, why would Stephen Ireland want to join us.....on the surface.

deep down we are a great club....as are Everton imo

I as many others could write reams and reams and reams of lines on why money does'nt buy happiness and it seriously doesn't but on the surface it does.

because synthetic people believe that... there are managers by the bucket load have proved that theory wrong.... but its hard work and nobody likes hard work these days.

Don Revie, Harry Catterick, Howard Kendall,Bertie Mee, Ron Saunders,Brian Clough,Arsene Venger.

The Man City thing is a joke to me.... its just that they have won the lottery.... Chelsea and Man U were doing it way before them.... i say good luck to them.

that's a very good point, and i agree TRO. The point about why would Ireland want to join us is exactly right, and something I was trying to het at. villa, in my eyes is better than City, but then Im a lifelong villain. Ireland came through their youth scheme, and will no doubt have been happy until recently at city, and its the change in the way they are now set up that has made him miffed. The whole trading of people at a whim, as city are doing, based only on a money fuelled desire to be an international name is out of kilter, where's the soul in it. Where's the humanity?

That's the risk we are playing with. If a football manager identifies that the person and player is the right thing for villa, and the player thinks it's the right thing for him, then great. If a money man decides, then that's another matter, and thats my concern about the signing without a manager with a long term vision for villa being in place and making that judgement.

Once football stops being about people, and becomes about money, thats where it loses its way as an element in the social fabric, as something worth all the time and thought and effort and travel and devotion we all put into it.

I understand your stance and whole heartedly agree....but,it takes a brave man with oodles of millions involved in a football club to get all sentimental about the rights and the wrongs of appointing the managers.....when the mass media want big names.Randy is right Barton was a caretaker manager, but what he failed to say was this....Ron Saunders had a clear role, so did Barton, so did Roy McLaren....Martin O'Neill had him an his 2 muppets....nodding dogs.

I'm really not sure what is right and what is wrong....I am sure about this.O'neill was an imposter, and i wasn't going to renew while he was in charge, now i might.

That was so good I read it twice. Excellent piece. Thank you.

....riding shotgun

...We don't know why Martin O'Neill left Villa, but looking at that lot above, I have some sympathy if he was becoming fed up of many aspects of the game and fancied a sanity break. The again if he hadn't dropped his bundle, maybe some of what looks like a bit of a muddle might be rather less muddled.

Blandy, you are an articulate writer, are you serious when you say that you don't know why O'Neill left.

get off the fence, man.

Are you expecting O'Neill to come out and say, none of it is my fault....blah ,blah, blah,....as was said on sunday supplement, he ( O'Neill) had it in his eyes he was going in March....so all that time he was living the lie and no intetion of having AVFC in his thoughts and left 5 days before the season start.

....wonderful

you are making one monumental mistake....you are assuming the manager is the answer to all the ills.

Fabio Capello is an eaxample imo of an over hyped misfit.

Matrtin O'Neill is never the person so many think he is /was.

you make so many assumptions its untrue.

How do you know that stephen Ireland is not to respond to a thoroughly decent club.... and go on to be a legend.

I remember many villa fans saying " paul **** merson"... why are we signing him.

James Milner has been offered a kings ransom and while many of us with a long standing bit of experience can say " not all that glitters is gold" will understand his stance... he has been offered a life changing experience.How can you blame him.

I think we can go on and be awesome with the right attitude from within the club.The players are millionairres, but they are human too.....treat them accordingly and you might be surprised with the response.....treat them like shit and you will get shit.

how many of those views actually relate to what i've said. None of them as far as I can see. For example I haven't blamed jm for moving. And Neither you nor I have a clue as to whether Ireland will turn out to be a villa legend, but I haven't remotely claimed he wouldn't, only that there are some concerns about his state of mind, at times. I don't say anything or make any assumptions about the manager, any manager, being the answer to any ills, only that I kind of like the manager to decide who he wants to buy and who he wants to sell, rather than people responsible for catering, or sponsorship, or who knows what.

I've said there are things that concern me about the two deals. Maybe I'm completely wrong to be concerned, but at least I've read the words I wrote.

No, I understand what you say, but the Manager( Martin O'Neill) has walked out in mid stream.... The chairman is in the middle of a deal involving a player (stephen Ireland) that some of our supporters would be happy in a straight swap, never mind 18 million compensation..... so why would a rookie manager like Kevin Macdonald be put under so much un necessary pressure to be involved in making a claim, when he is probably quite happy to be uninvolved.

This is a money exercise, not a football exercise, unfortunately, thats is the sums involved.

I think the whole thing is risky and I'm a little sceptical.

For a start, Milner was such a dynamic box-to-box midfielder, good tackling, excellent stamina, etc etc. Ireland and Petrov (potentially) in the centre of midfield worries me a little.

All I hope is that Stephen Ireland is the kind of character who will want to show up his former employers by performing well/trying hard for us.

Milner wanted to join us. Ireland didn't.

Maybe it makes no difference. But we'll see.

while the whole world wants to join Man city, why would Stephen Ireland want to join us.....on the surface.

deep down we are a great club....as are Everton imo

I as many others could write reams and reams and reams of lines on why money does'nt buy happiness and it seriously doesn't but on the surface it does.

because synthetic people believe that... there are managers by the bucket load have proved that theory wrong.... but its hard work and nobody likes hard work these days.

Don Revie, Harry Catterick, Howard Kendall,Bertie Mee, Ron Saunders,Brian Clough,Arsene Venger.

The Man City thing is a joke to me.... its just that they have won the lottery.... Chelsea and Man U were doing it way before them.... i say good luck to them.

you are making one monumental mistake....you are assuming the manager is the answer to all the ills.

Fabio Capello is an eaxample imo of an over hyped misfit.

Matrtin O'Neill is never the person so many think he is /was.

you make so many assumptions its untrue.

How do you know that stephen Ireland is not to respond to a thoroughly decent club.... and go on to be a legend.

I remember many villa fans saying " paul **** merson"... why are we signing him.

James Milner has been offered a kings ransom and while many of us with a long standing bit of experience can say " not all that glitters is gold" will understand his stance... he has been offered a life changing experience.How can you blame him.

I think we can go on and be awesome with the right attitude from within the club.The players are millionairres, but they are human too.....treat them occordingly and you might be surprised with the response.....treat them like shit and you will get shit.

I don't think you quite understand how many players are pleased with O'Neills departure.

draconian measures are not the answer to everything.....ask the great leeds team.

One thing I noticed today was Petrov's goal. Ive never seen him make a run into the bo like that in the 4yrs Mon was in charge!

No, because him and players like him had it drummed in to them to stay back.

we don't always know what instruction these players are given and moreover we are not always told....perhaps some managers think we don't matter.

Not to put a damper on KM but he has been with us for 15 years and while no one wants to deny the guy a bit of glory by being the top man....but,it could consume him.

I would imagine it is fairly easy in managing a team that is generally winning.... you become everyones friend.The tricky bit is having the experience and nous to manage throught the dark bits and have a coherent plan as to how you are going to turn it around without having Bill Gates as your best friend.You also need to be logical in your approach to correcting things something that will endear you to the fans, much in the same way Moyes has kept the fans on side through his darkest moments, because he is logical as opposed to quirky.

we need a manager who can deal with the tough bits and at the same time avoid bouts of depression doing it.

Depression or losing your calm manifests poor decision making.

I don't think we are likely to be involved in our new manager managing massive ego's as i don't envisage us being linked with those type of players on the whole.

Someone like sven might be a good shout, especially if he took KM as his assistant and helped to groome him.He has the global experience for player recruitment and has that calm exterior that i think is essential in modern day top flight football.He is battle hardened.

Villa has been called a poison chalice in some quarters, i disagree, but i understand the slant.I would say the club is a great opportunity for someone of the right pedigree.

The expectation at Villa has never been too high, if anything its the opposite, we need to strive a bit more and that doesn't always mean money.

Harry redknapp said when asked about his chances of the title " I have to believe we can" of course he does.

many clubs with less resource than us are having a go, so, so should we.