TRO

With Gareth Barry gone, Martin Laursen retired and Ashley Young the subject of increasing speculation, Chris Nee asks if this summer could be a harbinger of change at Aston Villa Football Club.

Silence is golden - sometimes. I like the way our club's publicity is run, I think it gives us an air of professionalism so sorely lacking at White Hart Lane or The Sty. I wouldn't change it, even given the chance, because I'd rather be a frustrated but ultimately satisfied supporter than have to watch my manager shooting his mouth off every 30 seconds like some sort of cockney rent-a-gob. Many fans on these boards are now demanding a statement, any statement, from Martin O'Neill about the continuing speculation on the futures of John Carew and Ashley Young. This atmosphere of uncertainty has understandably emerged from the ashes of Gareth Barry's protracted move away from the club.

In my view, the signal required to stem the flow of negativity is not a bland statement about how Young isn't leaving and Carew loves the club. The ethos of the club since 2006 has been that actions speak louder than words, and the actions here need to be a firm refusal let further key players leave and to make a big splash in the transfer market.

My stance on the Lerner administration is that I'm still massively in favour. The concerns being whispered around the supporter base currently are, I hope and believe, unfounded. I think we have the funds to be competitive (and these days that means fighting for fourth, sadly) without being the exaggerated plaything of an implausibly wealthy, faceless man. Give me Randy Lerner over Abu Dhabi, Abramovich or Glazer every single time.

But I too am growing concerned, and not for the first time.

This time last summer, I became troubled by O'Neill's transfer dealings. In an ideal world, he'd be a little more free spending, a little more ruthless and a little more aware of the fact that leaving our transfers until late in the summer does not only affect factors he can then manage, such as players stepping in with the season underway, but also factors he can't. With a silent club snaring no signatures, the negativity which results from Barry's departure can stew over the summer and in turn leads to any medium-to-good quality signings being immediately written off as panic buys.

A big signing in the next few weeks would do wonders for Villa, O'Neill and Lerner in terms of public opinion and general atmosphere. As fans, we're worried. We're worried about maintaining our top six position, about whether we'll ever break the top four, about finances and about the ceiling on O'Neill's capabilities. Each one of those worries would be eased by the signing of a top quality player who fills a gap in the team and sends a signal to the rest of our targets that we mean business.

Plenty of Villa supporters love O'Neill for his kooky demeanour and his unusual ways of working. But, once again, this summer could be seen as a crossroads for Villa. We might blow the loss of Barry out of our collective consciousness by signing a top-class replacement, or even a breathtaking signing for somewhere else on the field. We might have a summer like the last one, which sees us leave it to the last minute to plug the holes in the team, signing players who strengthened the squad overall but didn't do much to improve our strength in depth. Or we might do nothing of note, leaving Barry's move as the Villa headline as the season starts and beginning the season with the stagnant, edgy aura which engulfs us now.

If the club does nothing to flush out the current negative feeling, I fear for next season. To state the obvious, it will have left the squad under strength. But it runs deeper. Failure this summer, and our appalling form so far in 2009, means the team needs to achieve a blistering start on the pitch in order to avoid O'Neill's position being called into question by an increasing section of supporters as Christmas approaches. As David O'Leary found, once that slippery slope begins, it's difficult to avoid.

But this time there are more questions: is Lerner's loyalty to O'Neill such that he will be given time, warranted or unwarranted, that other managers were not given? Is there anyone better and obtainable? Isn't it now time to stick by a manager and give him a chance to mould the club in his image?

I'm going to sit on the fence for now, because the quiet manner of the club means that nobody outside really knows the full facts. What I do know is that improvement is essential on the field, and getting the supporters onside is equally important.

Very good post and sums up the views of very many villa fans i speak to....Excellent Chris.

I think that guy makes some valid points. However, the article is not very balanced in my humble opinion.

MON has done a good job. However, I would still contend that the squad he inherited was more of a mid-table squad than a relegation squad. The fact that they finished 16th was mainly down to DOL's poor management and a good manager would have had them in mid-table. I disagree that we are a serious top 4 challenger....realistically we are light years away imo.

Yes we deserved our 4 points off Arsenal and we did well against Everton, but he conveniently forgets that we got no points against Chelski, and were totally outplayed in one game and victims of a more clinical striker in the other. Yes, we played very well at Old Trafford library for 70 odd minutes but we were found wanting when it really mattered.

He says it is easy to criticise our 2nd half of the season with hindsight. However, I, and quite a few others, predicted that our squad was not strong enough and that we had gained quite a few points from being slightly fortunate and that would probably not continue. Laursen was one of the reasons we did not stay in the top 4, but the main reason was that the squad as a whole was never going to be good enough to sustain a top 4 place.

As for MON's signings, I would not call Carew a "goal-scoring machine". On his day he is almost unplayable but just as often he is anonymous. Also heystally conveniently forgets that MON got lucky in that it was more a case of wanting to offload Baros than a positive move for Carew.

Ashley has been a very good signing, although I would say a more realistic valuation would be £20 million, not £30 million. Also, I see him as a very good player, but not potentially world class.

Milner has been a good addition and I agree on many of his positive attributes but he forgot to mention his lack of pace and his shocking penalty taking!

Re the others, I agree with much of his positive points but again he forgets any of the negatives...Petrov (and Barry) often going missing defensively and NRC's passing. He is sure that Curtis will be back in the England squad, but I am more hopeful than expectant as there is so much competition when all are fit. I agree about Luke. Friedel, is still a good keeper though not as good as he was....also it was hardly rocket science MON not wanting to pay £10 million for calamity Carson!

Yes, MON has developed Barry and Gabby but I have to disagree that Gabby is "one of the most feared strikers in the league". I think Gabby has been nearly all about speed and he really needs to develop the other parts of his game if he is to progress.

I don't think reaching the last 32 of the UEFA Cup was bad, but it is nothing to get excited about. I hope MON can replace Barry and Laursen, but heystally's blind optimism is not justified imo.

Also I don't agree that we have the potential to get in the top 4 next season and I certainly do not agree that just because you are positive about everything then it means you get behind the team more. That smacks of "I am a better fan than you because I am more positive".

Yes, it is good that he looks at the positives, but it is fairly obvious imo that there are negatives too and just because you do not mention them it does not mean they will go away. I would rather try and take a more balanced and realistic view. I will take a lot of convincing that we are going to even stay in the top 6, let alone seriously challenge the top 4.

Take a bow Ric.... a terrifically constructed BALANCED post.... as always your comments are well worth listening to.

Sorry for the length of this but i didn't think it warranted a contribution on the front page

I think it is great that somebody has attempted to lift the gloom enveloping Villa Park on the basis the season came to an anti climax. Without doubt being so close to the coveted top four only to see that hope evaporate over the last quarter of the season leaves a sour taste in the mouth and leaves you thinking that we threw away all the hard work of the previous 18 months. It is fair to say that MON could have given us some hope by now and try to raise our spirits by saying we have irons in the fire and stop the speculation surrounding Ashley Young, but I am sure we will be in the market for quality players. Whether MON will spend the money required is another matter.

Whilst MON is being lambasted by the Villa Faithful for his transfer policy and tactical naivety it cannot be argued that he hasn’t brought the best out of those at his disposal after all 12 months ago who would honestly have predicted we would enter December with a realistic chance of challenging for the title (Mathematically I mean) that we would be ten minutes away from winning at Old Trafford after being a goal down, that we would win convincingly at the Emirates and boss the return fixture at VP, That young would be PFA Young Player of the Year, that Heskey, A Young, L Young, Gabby, Barry, Milner and Davies would be called up to an England Squad only beaten by the best team in the world (At Present) Spain. We wouldn’t have believed we would be 8 points ahead of Arsenal in 4th Place. It goes to show that we are well ahead of the five year plan to get amongst the Elite –we were perhaps over performing and getting carried away with what was a false position, but there are certainly encouraging signs of us building.

On the flip side of this coin it is only fair to say that we shouldn’t have capitulated and MON should have strengthened sufficiently to cover for Laursens absence, and numerous players dips in form and should have used subs more. There can be no excuse for not changing the personnel with a run that culminated in a record of two wins in 15 games. Whilst Barry and Petrov were our locksmiths unpicking defences with their passing they were both prone to following the ball forward and not having the speed or stamina to get back and break up a counter attack when our attacks broke down. In a 451 we had an anchorman such as NRC, Gardner and Sidwell to pick up the pieces and not leave the centre exposed. O Neil lives and dies by his reputation forged for man management and polishing diamonds in the rough and therefore he had to keep faith with those he put on the pitch. In some cases form never recovered and he had to be humble enough to drop those players. Shorey has never looked good enough – his saving grace been when players played out of position at RB and he was spared the defensive duties. Gabby was Woeful from January onwards and looked disinterested, Knight has always been prone to errors and misreading of the game and Heskey in all fairness suffered from not being able to build a partnership with Gabby (It didn’t help that Gabby appeared to expect Heskey to do all his donkey work but was then never in position to finish off a move.

In O’Neill’s favour though look at the players who went through dips in form but rediscovered it to great effect because he stuck by them – Young, Friedel, Davies, Petrov, Carew, Barry. Can we not give O Neill Credit for instilling the belief in players that they can get up after a kick in the balls like Everton Away and win with the last kick of the ball, Everton at Home when we looked dead and buried against a very good side, The demotivation of outplaying Arsenal at home and being two goals down and numerous other great shows of character and resilience.

The biggest question mark over O Neill is his transfer policy – yes he has made some good signings, but he has made a lot of bad ones at a big cost and he has certainly not acted quickly enough to replace those leaving with adequate replacement (After three years and 12 makeshift right backs we still only have one recognised right back and even he was only signed last year)

Which team would we prefer?

MON didn’t rate -

Sorenson, Samuel, Mellberg, Cahill, Hughes, Berger, McCann, Davis, Angel, Baros, Phillips

MON signed –

Friedel, Shorey, Cuellar, Knight, L Young, A young, Reo Coker, Sidwell, Milner, Harewood, Carew

I know not all players in the first team are great and some in the second side we wouldn’t be without but the first team recouped 13m and the second cost 62.3m and I don’t believe there is a 50m amount more quality.

What’s more is players like Routledge and Maloney and Djemba Djemba were bought and sold without hardly featuring and costing us about 5 million in transfer fees.

....I thought that was an excellent post and i just could not of put my thoughts on paper better than that.

Mon is much better supported in reality than the some of the posts suggest on here but some of those same supporters like me have doubts.

Like you the paradox of Martin O'Neill reluctant to waste money leaves me in a state of bewilderment.... because that's exactly what he ends up doing by his strategy.

Un like some, I don't believe he has made many bad signings.... IMO He has just simply paid too much money for modest players.

Its like your wife/mom going to a cheap supermaket for her shopping, when back home nobody eats it. Marks & spencer may have been better all round value.

some will say Laursens omission was the main culprit and that maybe true.... but sometimes you have to improvise, when the perfect solution is not at hand.

I don't believe there was much of an attempt to do so.

I'm not sure I'm reading you right there TRO, if I am then that's the first time I've seen someone criticise last years defense and it's organisation for a lack of improvisation.

I'd wager that the right back who played left back, the two midfielders who played right back and the centre half who played right back might disagree with you.

I think I'd probably argue that there was too much of an attempt to improvise in replacing Laursen.

you most certainly are not reading me right at all... The improvisation i was referring to was in the midfield.

The defence was the defence and the personnel to go with it.... but you can protect them a little.... you see I'm one of those old fashioned farts that think you start defending from the front and start attacking from the rear.... this modern game is too much for me.

there were times during games c march time that Barry and Petrov were literally wide open and the defence just had everybody and his grandmother running at them.... that IMO could have been quelled by playing Nigel or sidders.... we just sat back in amazement and watched our team getting opened up.... I just remember looking at my mates and we all shaking our heads.

Its a "mary poppins" attempt at cheering us all up... if your that way inclined.

Let me attempt to pick out just one point.

we win 2 games in 15.... NRC or sidwell don't have a look in,in terms of their best positions, why because Barry & Petrov were playing so well.

Now I'm not saying Nigel and steve are better than Gareth or Stiliyan...but hey how can you deserve to hold on to the shirt with 2 wins in 15 from the Engine room.

some will say Laursens omission was the main culprit and that maybe true.... but sometimes you have to improvise, when the perfect solution is not at hand.

I don't believe there was much of an attempt to do so.

We're down on pretty much everything from last season bar away form really aren't we? Oh, and points

..... well thats progress for ya.

Are we still a 'nearly' club?

....At the moment yes..... but we don't need to be.

....It takes a bit of money and a bucket load of Nous, backed up with a little bit of time.

Have we got it?..... i'll leave it to you to judge.

.... very witty

on the basis of how we have finished.... 6th will be a fantastic achievement.

I too would like to see an improvement in the play i.e passing and moving.... more comfort on the ball.

....In the same vein as I was when gray,deehan & Gidman left at the same time.

but we then went on to win the league and euro cup.

I think he has had his day with us and it shows.... he looks like he wants out of the marriage and is playing like he is playing to get away.I think he thinks we should have brought in players as good as him and we havn't.... he looks worn out.

we will change our style when he's gone and I think it will be for the better.

at least I hope so.

He's a good player, undoubtedly. But I've said it many times now, I think we could almost benefit from not having him here. He limits the way the team plays because he's too good not to play but he's not a player that'll do what the really top class CMs in this league will do, Gerrard, Lampard, etc etc. He's not that big of a goal threat, he's capable of playing good cutting balls but almost never does. He's not defensive enough to tackle and go to be an out and out DM, he needs someone next to him doing some of that work. He's got a great pass and can link up fairly well with everyone else in the team. He's the kind of player that with a bloke next to him doing alot of the donkey work, and a guy just in front of him who can score a few he could link with would thrive. He's just awkward to really get the best out of imo.

But because he's good enough, you've got to play him and it limits the way you have to play. I can't help thinking that if he left, yes we'd lose a very good player, but we'd not feel that need to have to play this way. Petrov can do everything Barry can I reckon, and if we had someone else in the centre that knew how to go forward and score a few and link up with the front men, we'd be a completely different prospect. Barry doesn't play that way (arguably I'd say can't, not fast enough or tricky enough and his shot's not good enough), so we get left with Barry spraying a few balls round, inevitably to Ashley Young, and not really achieving a whole lot with nothing coming from the CM to threaten goal.

eloquently put and very apt IMO... interesting post.

I think it is a paradox... He is a quality player, but I am not sure how effective he is for the team.

I have a feeling we will acquire a better balance when he eventually goes.

For years there has been conjecture as to his best position and there lies some of the problem.... imo, he is a jack of all trades and master of none.

...I thought it was a well presented article and I accept your playing players out of position arguement as sceptical.

Your play analysis is interesting and feasible.

I'm not sure I agree with your points about the crowd.Mental strength has to be acquired in this profession and complaining about your customers was never a prerequisite of any successful business in any field.... you have to win them over.

I think he has done some good things but still think he has a lot to prove, but I would give him another couple of seasons before making a final judgement as changing managers every 2 or 3 years rarely works. At present I would class MON as a good manager, but still a long way from being a great manager....hopefully one day he will be.

ditto.

...I believe the bit where it says's Martin O'Neill is clearly inspired by Clough.... but he's a different man.

I also suspect Cloughie fancied being Villa Manager.... we just didn't have the hierarchy to make it happen.

....The signs were there when we were winning and the signs were there before Heskey.... we are leaving Petrov and Barry too much to do.

If you play 2 wingers it has to be effective...... they have to beat their men and the strikers have to score.....nothing else will do otherwise you are carrying them.

a bit simplistic i know.... but it is so.

also the 2 centre halves can't be expected to be chaperoned by the 2 central midfielders they have to win their own battles not just aerially but on the floor too.

I honestly belive between the wingers and the centrehalves they are asking for too much help from the centre..... and they are subsequently being overrun.

...Pretty well summed up.

I will add this though ...For a well thought of Manager in most circles.... Martin does some weird things at times in both team selection and the transfer market....can't believe we are still saying small squad.... its been running for years.

.... something not right there me thinks.

as well as some teams play at times you are only really as good as your worst performance..... despite some great games this year and a quite creditable away sequence the worry for me is some of our competitors do not go as low as us in their bad runs......its a real worry for me.

....James Milner's party piece is pulling his foreskin over his head and whistling down his willey.... its a well practiced mating call in the dales.

James Milner ran all the way to Moscow today, but no one told him it was a home game! He should be back for training in the morning!

that made me chucking fuckle

....Chelsea win 1-2

based purely on us not them.You just cannot miss sitters at this level and we seem to have got in to a habit of it.

hope our boys prove me wrong.

....To my knowledge there are a fair few Villa Fans in Ireland in fact they had an Irish supporters club as I recall.

My brother like me was a season ticket holder for many years travelling from Dublin to meet me in Birmingham and off to see the beloved.He followed Villa from my Father who landed in Birmingham just after the second world war.

He had such a passion for Villa that was quite strange from someone not from these parts.... but hey as soon as he got in to the New Aston Social where we met for each game he was one of the disciples.

Aston Villa have always been a well supported club..... from outside Birmingham too , but many years of mismanagement by various regimes have tested the patience of some i guess..... but every where you go there is a little twinkle in folk's eyes for AVFC.

I guess there is also some truth in those poignant words of a famous actor - Tom Hanks

I JUST LIKED THE NAME ( its just magical)

PS and so many say that to me

For a fair comparison, you'd need to see Carew play in this formation.

Personally I think he'd struggle, whereas Gabby has thrived.

What the stats show is, Carew scores more goals than Gabby when they're paired together, which isn't the point...

I am actually baffled by this post.

You've actually just tried to explain to ME, what EVERYONE has been telling YOU over the last 9 pages.

For a fair comparison, you'd need to see Carew play in this formation

YET you saw fit to start a thread with this opening statement

9 starts from Carew, 12 goals.

12 games where he didn't start, 21 goals.

9 starts from Carew. 14 points.

12 games where he didn't start. 27 points.

Can people stop saying we miss him please.

Talk about doing a full circle and contradicting your previous 8 pages of posts.

You've obviously failed to grasp what I've been trying to say to you all along...

I'm NOT saying JC is better than GA

I'm NOT saying Fernando Torres is a poor striker

What I, and nearly everyone else in this thread is saying to you, is that the stats you quoted don't mean ANYTHING. John Carew being out the side is only ONE factor amongst MANY (Milner,Sidwell,Shorey,the formation, the weather etc. etc.) that have changed in between the two sets of results you have quoted. Yet you chose to use those stats to blame HIM.

Now, you think Gabby has thrived playing up there by himself?

How about If I told you that he has scored in only 2 of 10 games where Carew has been missing? He had 6 goals in 10 games before Carew got injured...

I guess at the end of the day, the most obvious statistic is at the top of this page... 94% think we miss him.

Goodnight.

.......I think you are flogging a dead horse.

I would really liek to think so ...

but the fact is we knwo little abotu what is wrong

that leads to the kind of speculation I have mentioned but nothing like that on Vital

Ian you have been told many times its a prolapsed disc.....I'm sorry to disaapoint you but the Lap dancing junk is a what it is junk.

....it seems like that you just don't beleive a simple explanation.

Another thing that might annoy you is that he a very popular guy at the club.

I have been told nothing by the club but by you as an ITK, sorry but we all take ITKs with a pinch a salt on here

and why would that annoy me ? check out what I have said about Carew and you will find the basic difference is that I simply do not rate him as highly as some, but no way would I want him to go without a better replacement.

that goes for every player

I'm not sure what an "In The Know" supposed to mean.... this is a forum for the very purposeof villa fans telling others what they know and some folk will know more than others by definition.....It is also helpful to reassure fans who happen to rate Carew.

If you choose to be selective and want a written statement with the stamp of runnymede on it well thats up to you.

My suggestion is have a bit of faith when folk tell you that a substantial player for Aston Villa has no agenda attached to him.

I am not the next door neighbour to Martin O'Neill, but even if i was i wouldn't tell distrusting souls like you.

Incidently, if you read tonights Birmingham Mail you will read Martin O'Neills endorsement that he is missing Carew..... no sinister plot there then.... who can we find next?

ps ....( we all take ITK's with a pinch of salt)....speak for yourself not on behalf of everybody.

also Intersting to see how Chelsea are not their usual selves with one up front.

You think? IMO they have played their best stuff with Anelka on his own...

just an opinion , but no i don't think they have been great with Anelka..... not compared with the past.