TRO

Its interesting isnt it that 66% either want him to stay or cant decide as opposed to 33% who want him gone. Sounds to me like he could be easily forgiven - despiete everything I would like him to stay - life's too short and we need players of quality.

He needs to come out now and say he made a mistake and will commit to a new contract with Villa!

Mike, most of the summer i was with you on this .... but not now.

I have seen a different side to Gareth Barry that i honestly didn't think existed.

His head is cleraly 90 odd miles up the motorway in everthing he says .... even defending the management at Liverpool and declaring he is being overpriced....recent events have clearly had no effect on his stance,

I would like to see a player arrive with comparable talent and just get rid of the player as soon as is possible.

we should just get on with our lives and treat him as if he ain't there.

.... as for folk blaming his agent.... well he would have sacked his agent by now if his agent was not acting in his interests..... so he must have endorsed all his agents actions.

....look .there's a simple answer to this ..."brokeback scouse" want to play together so villa should put a bid in for steven gerrard .... and being as his lordship is injured we may get a discount.

simple really.

General.... Just a quick line to thank you for your candid remarks on the subject of Transfer funds.

It is always a touchy subject and i sincerely hope your remarks in house were taken with the sincerity that they were delivered, by all parties.

I was dismayed to learn that the media have got hold of it and tried to use it as a " world exclusive& ground breaking news" ... but hey the truth sometimes hurts.

I have to say despite my over whelming support for the manager i find his exploits in the transfer market concerning, both in terms of quality and quantity.... I'm not expecting a reply on this and i don't really want to add much more other than to say i hope it doesn't over shadow the other good work he has done.

Thanks for listening.

OK, I get you TRO (assuming you mean it the other way round - that the GB situation is the symptom resulting from a "disease" of transfer market, er, caution).

I'd accept that it's part of the "problem" but I don't actually see it as the cause.

The cause for me is very complex - a combination of an uneven playing field - uneven because Villa was (IMO) very badly run over a long period, in some respects, (resulting in poor on-field performance compared to what it should have been) That led to a self imposed handi-cap, particularly compared to Liverpool, who were successful on the field.

It's about the situation where being on mid-week ITV Euro league games is seen as the pinnacle for players.

It's about the way money dominates

It's about agents

It's about the nature of gifted sports people - they have to be utterly single minded and stubborn to succeed in their short careers.

It's about the disregard for anyone else but the self of clubs in the Prem. A "sod the "rules" they don't apply to us attitiude"

What we see is that (IMO) Villa in the last 2 years have come on a bundle both on and off the pitch, but there's still a gap to the top 4. Liverpool are in their own way trying to improve their situation so they are realistic challengers for the title. I don't think they'll do it, and I think they'll fall apart at some point. They're, for me, at serious risk of financial collapse. But that's their problem, not mine.

I totally share the view that Villa have not been adventurous in the transfer market. But then that's never really been a consistent way to achieve success. Longer term building seems a better bet, judging by precedent - Arsenal & Man U have a better model - exceedingly good manager, backed by his board to do things the way he decrees is right.

For all of Chelsea's recent good seasons, they are nowhere near sustainably successful. Blackburn bought the title then plummeted. Other than that, there's nothing to show for chucking huge sums at transfers.

MO'N is at the time of writing in serious eficit in terms of having a good enough squad to match, or improve upon last season, and GB going is a huge loss. Massive.

He needs to seriously address the situation, or he'll become another contender who could have been. But he has the opportunity. STatements to "show" we are a "buying club" are great for fans in the short term. Me I want results over seasons. I want us to have the best chance we can get of succeeeding. I don't mind if we don't make it, but I get angry if we don't try.

So far, we have in my view, tried not just to grow, but to grow in the "right" way, with the right principles. I won't lose my rag with the manager until or unless he fails to do the best he can.

If players on their 40 grand a week with their boot deals and international revival, gained in part through the work of the manager want to jump whip, that's their look-out, but I don't blame MON's transfer market foibles for it right now.

There's money available, there's a good club to be at or come to, there's 4 weeks to act.

If at the end of the 4 weeks, we're still as woefully short on quality and quantity as were now, then I could accept, or at least understand players thinking about going because of it. But GB wanted away in May/Late April, when there was none of the current concern.

Blandy.... thank you for correcting my analogy... yes your right, so far.

Let me reflect on some of your points:

1) you say - I totally share the view that villa have not been adventurous in the transfer market....But then that has never been a consistent way to achieve success.

Answer......Yes it has, and is one of the most consistent components of success.

2) For all Chelsea's recent good seasons they are no where near sustainably successful.

Answer......Yes they are, they show no signs of faultering and have been a force for a consideable length of time.

3) I won't lose my rag with the manager unless he fails to do the best he can

Answer.....How may i pray is that quantifyable... it is pure personal feeling thats all it can be.

4) If at the end of the 4 weeks, we are still as woefully short on quality and quantity as we are now, then i could accept or at least understand players thinking about going because of it.

Answer..... your words not mine " woefully short on quality and quantity is a fair ole indictment in itself and is not associated with hunky dory"

I applaud your attitude in supporting the manager.... I was one that wanted him in and only him and i will continue to support him.

I would be a liar, if i said i am unconcerned at events and i would also be a liar if i said I thought all is great at B6....

.....there have been some terrific happenings during the last 2 years plus, but something ain't quite right for me and I'm not sure what it is.

.... perhaps in the fullness of time my doubt may be revealed.

Agree with Blandy's assessment that apart from being able to prove to Barry that we can match his ambition, being slow in the market doesn't impact the Barry deal or vice versa. And tbh Barry wants CL football NOW NOW NOW so it wouldn't matter who we bought, we aint in the CL so he wont want to stay.

It is all about opinions of course....but I am totally convinced that is what its all about.

I am not suggesting for one minute this a weekly or monthly problem and that underperforming in the transfer market is just lately.... it has been manifest for years and we are struggling to reverse the comments of Mark Ansell...." we are a selling club"

I am convinced had we signed top talent since Martin O'Neill's Appointment in greater abundance Gareth Barry's chances of having his head turned would have been reduced.

PS.....How do you think we get in to the champions league..... chances get enhanced by buying quality.

... the underlying problem is that we are the architect of our own demise..... by procrastinating in the transfer market.

Apart from, to me, being a different subject altogether, I don't think the Barry saga has a huge amount to do with transfers in or out generally - though I do agree that inactivity in recruiting players hypothetically weakens any potential persuasion along the lines of "stay here, look at what we're doing in improving the squad". But that is surely secondary, in my view.

Blandy...what i was trying to illustrate is, we are talking about the disease not the symptom.

Gareth Barry is the disease, the symptom is by being modest in the transfer market we are inadvertently encouraging them to look elsewhere.

This guy is not your common garden mercenary here.... this is a player like Dwight yorke who has spent many years ... ploughing the fields.

we simply have to SHOW we are buying club not a selling club and only then will we reverse this hurtful trend.

ps....i still think if the fans knew we would go out and replace his talent, not many would give a toss.

Agree with all of that, Pete, apart from the "quick closure" bit.

It's anything but.

Equally, Villa don't come out of it looking too clever either, whatever the good intentions.

Saying he's staying, then a couple of days later saying " no he isn't" is not perceived by many as an indication of firmness and strength.

Whatever the reasons for the change of heart - whether GB changed his mind, whether Liverpool are divided - the owners don't want to pay, but the manager wanted to keep it alive and got back in touch with GB to say "I still want you here at Anfield", whether GB was less that fully committed in his acceptance of the deadline even before the announcement, the saga is not doing anyone any favours.

Absolutely no-one is emerging with much credit, and some with their reputations decidedly tarnished.

For me the Agent (hardly a pristine breed anyway) and Liverpool come out of it very badly.

GB looks like all the rest of the greedy self obsessed prima-donnas that the media, or sections of it, fawn over.

MO'N looks like he's been "beaten" by determined and unprincipled actions from several parties

Villa's board look like they've a bit to learn about how devious some elements within the game are.

So even those with honourable, honest, intent and a great deal of integrity have been harmed to an extent - casualties, if you like, rather than self inflicted wounds.

Maybe that's unavoidable, and maybe the damage is minimal in some cases.

Basically, like the General said on another matter - if you wrestle with a pig, you get muddy.

I feel there is a possibility that there will be further unedifying detail come out. There's a chance that the money issues at Liverpool are going to re-open splits they have between the two owners , and between the owners, manager and Parry.

I also think there is a chance that the whole saga is going to put more strain on MO'N and that under that strain he will find other issues harder to deal with.

but the underlying problem is that we are the architect of our own demise..... by procrastinating in the transfer market.

This article is bollocks!

Why? Because you fail to highlight the fact that Barry is insistent on leaving, even after he gave his word (yes you mention it), that is the only reason we are selling him as we all know. Yet you blame the board as much as 'my word isn't worth shit' Barry. Why do our own fans have to badmouth the club. Go and support the bluenose.

You're right.... Barry is insistent on leaving, just like Dwight yorke was and yes it hurts us all when your best player wants out...... but what hurts more is when there appears little chance of replacing that level of quality.

Gareth Barry was obviously sold a line,by Martin O'Neill when he was just about to leave 2 years ago.....Gareth has had a chance to see the level of ambition during that time and despite the heady heights of 6th has decided its not for him.

I am not looking to blame any individual at the club,because i don't know where the blame lies, but i do fervently believe that the performance in the transfer market is at the centre of all our woes.

....I still believe the Gareth Barry saga is much like the dwight yorke saga with legs... and we have learn't very little.

...and its all borne out of one sad fact that we simply under perform in the transfer market.... in terms of quality and quantity and it has come home to roost.

we end up pandering to players, instead of employing a tad of contempt( meant in the right way, a touch of arrogance)....Ron saunders did not carry on like this despite his limited funds.

If money was no object as is described in some quarters.....Gareth Barry's position should have been replaced after his NOTW expletive....The manager could then have said left back or the bench.

The way things are going at B6 the tail is waging the dog.

Impossible to answer for me.

Why?

Is the poll not working on your computer

(

Because I'm obviously not happy with how things are currently at VP. But it's hard to explain.

Because I think the manager is excellent, and I think Randy, General K and the board, along with the people working behind the scenes at VP are brilliant.

So I'm sort of stuck. When the unmovable object meets the unstoppable force and all of that.

I just can't work out in my head what's going on. Perhaps it's something about Villa. Perhaps there always has to be something going on. Dunno. I've just lost the thing of actually caring at the moment.

Just roll on the start of the season. If we are great then ace, and if we are crap then oh well.

I feel much the same as you, John

what confusess me is how we can find ourselves so far away when we are in fact so close.

for all the things that have been written and said..... it appears the most significant things are they, that have been unsaid.

....Right now no.

but circumstances change so quickly...... which makes us fickle.

....I'll trust in the Manager..... but hope it gets concluded soon.

Jon, A very persuasive view of the future, backed by some good analysis.

We were very lucky that Randy chose the Villa and that despite what Ellis would have us believe, that MON joined because he liked the view being put forward by the soon to be owner.

Their combination, backed by a shrewd management team augers very well for our future, plus Randy doesn't need all the jam today, unlike certain foreign owners. He seems happy that our progress is steady but well planned, and despite the more pessimistic of Villa fans, success WILL be achieved.

UTV

so thats the villa faithful convinced..... now for the rest of Europe.

A well thought out article, and sums up the situation.

I guess the odds are that he will be going, but I believe it will be a mistake for his career ambitions. He might get CL earlier than at Villa, but probably not long term.

If Benitez continues his normal play 'em anywhere and when it suits, GB could find his England place in jeopardy come the world cup qualifiers. If money isn't the issue, and playing in the CL is, then just maybe he should give Villa another season and see where we are next season.

I don't subscribe to the doom merchants about MON and his transfer policy, or that RL doesn't have the cash, I think it's more that MON has a more astute eye for players and dressing room harmony, at least I hope so.

One more thing about GB, not too many seasons ago, there was a large number of posters saying he wasn't international class, too slow etc. How times change, he certainly isn't any quicker, but his game has improved and he's a steadying presence for both Villa and England.

If the Red Scousers buy him, I trust the Villa will make them pay dearly.

I don't subscribe to the doom merchants about MON and his transfer policy, or that RL doesn't have the cash, I think it's more that MON has a more astute eye for players and dressing room harmony, at least I hope so.

that line is paradoxical..... because -at least i hope so, means you have doubt and in fact the doom merchants as you call them ( sceptics would be more apt IMO) could be right.

Brentie wrote .....If anyone is going to break into the top 4 this year, it won’t be you, it will be a side who spends a shitload of money (Spurs most likely). You don’t seem able to keep your best players, let alone attract top class European talent.

Despite my acceptance of the way Martin O'Neill builds his squad...... that in my opinion is a truism.

If you are not a buying club, by definition you will end up as a selling club.

I do not confess to have any idea whatsoever, what Martin O'Neill's intentions are in terms of both quantity or quality this summer and i don't think anyone else does either.

I think the code breakers during the war would have thrown the towel in.

....I think PB may have a point albeit you under estimate Liverpool at your peril.

Equally i think Gedfas is too quick to dismiss an Aston Villa side that is clearly in the ascendency which is equally as foolish to under estimate.

Martin O'Neill's approach to strengthening the team both physically and spiritually is commendable and does have a cloughie slant to it.

However like Brian, you do have to splash out now and a gain and perhaps go for that obvious quality, that will make PB's case all the more credible and Gedfas's claim all the more foolish.

.... we have it all to do guys..... but the signs are good.

.....I thought it was a very good and well rounded post.

The so called negatives were truism's and sometimes as painful as they may appear, have to be faced up to.

I think like all great managers Martin Is flawed, due mainly to the complexities of the job.

Ron Saunders was flawed,Alex Ferguson is flawed.... what manager in his right mind would dump Beckham,Stam & Van Nistleroy ..... but he gets far more right than he gets wrong..... and wrong in who's eyes, dare i ask.

As has been said...Aston Villa had a great season by there own standards, but their own standards have been low in recent seasons..... There is much work to do and I Believe we have the manager to do it.

we must not rest on our laurels and think we have arrived, because in the same position the top four would not contemplate it and nor should we.... They are where they are through being ruthlessly single minded about achieving success and so should we.

High expectation is healthy but must be controlled to avoid frustration and must not be used as an excuse to settle for mediocrity leading to a comfortable life.

Getting to the top is damn hard work.... as only one team can win the premiership, but that does not deter the other top 3 from having a damn good go

....and nor should it deter us.

.....6th place is excellent.....but now the hard work starts for the fans, the players, the manager( & and his staff) and the owner and his directors.

and together ain't we going to love it.

You lot make me sick. Leaving us now to go to Liverpool would be the most traitorous thing anyone has ever done to this club. I will boo him forever, even if he became a coach or a manager. I will never forgive such treachery.

perhaps your bitterness should be directed in another direction.

look without attacking Martin O'Neill or Randy lerner of which i have no wish to do so the sad fact at any football club is .....If you don't strenghten enough your team other clubs will come after your players.... its a predatory business.

attack is the best form of defence..... like acquisition of players is the best way to keep your existing ones.

.....NO

please, please, please don't mention season tickets..... it sounds like blackmail.

I would like to think we now have an owner we can trust and we don't need to be threatening season ticket withdrawal..... it kinda don't sit comfortable with me..... surely fans and Randy have a better relationship than that.

I would be staggered if all the management at villa park, were not aware of what is required to keep the carew's and young's happy.... other quality players.

Gareth Barry may/maynot go.... and imo we must buy quality to replace him should he decide to go and the club decide to realese him..... but it shouldn't need the fans to tell Martin O'Neill that.

please could posters keep this to questions/comments directly for the General, rather than general opinion stuff which can be found/posted on every single other thread, and is freely available for the General and Club staff to read. We appreciate that people have views, but just to make this thread easier for the General to deal with stuff he does have influence over... Thanks. Blandy

I don't think you can say MON has been reluctant to spend money though (Young £11m, NRC £8.5m, Davies £8m) what he has been reluctant to do is bring in large numbers of players. I agree this is frustrating due to the size of the squad but I don't think people can say he has been reluctant to spend.

...my slight concern here though, is these signings are young players essentially on a learning curve... which is fine, but young players dip in form very easily and leak mental strength at times

These signings should ( Imo) have been supported by ready made impact players.

...none

....Barry & Reo Coker over scored IMO... as previous post suggests retaining the ball & closing down was at the root cause of our demise well before the Ref/our defenders turned in to lucifer.

Man Utd are a polished outfit and have the ability to pass you to death.... teams that will stand any chance of giving them a game must disrupt their swagger.It can be done as The Blues and Portsmouth can testify.

We appeared to believe we have the same technique as them and embarked on a road accordingly and we were subsequently dumped on our arses.

The signs were there for all to see well before Zat Knight & Craig Gardner decided to have a day off..... as Simon Cowell would say " it was a bloody mess"

Look....I ain't going to say that Zat Knight is this or that...... but our problems existed way before it got to Zat Knight.

This team at times can work some good moves and other times are apalling.

Apalling... thats a strong word... against ManU i thought they were worse than that.

Its been a long time since i walked out early, but with 16 mins left at 1-4 down and not an ounce of self belief in key players, one fan said to me call yourself a villa fan.... I said would you just stand around watching a child being mauled when you can't do a thing about it.

That was just not fun for me and watching Paul Scholes once again causing us so much grief, unattended..... are we ever going to learn anything.

Got nothing positive to say so I'm Going.

no I'm not Barry & Reo-Coker were shocking.

....Now if I was a betting man, I would say the chances of Barry going to Liverpool were far greater than Gerrard coming to us..... But there again nice try.