TRO

Let's face it. We have an owner/chairman that shows less day to day interest than Doug Ellis ever did and the worst manager since Billy McNeil so it could be concluded that we have not progressed at all.

You forgot to mention all the money we've pissed away on Compensation, wages and transfer fees for shit players.

I cant believe the position we are in as a club at the moment given how much we have spent in the past 4 years. Id go as far as to say it couldnt get any worse at the moment.

You know, I still wake up at night and wonder if this whole Mcleish thing is a nightmare. Seriously, it hasnt sunk in yet.

Why was he hired? Just....Why?

I would say your first line is just about 70% of our problem.

I like him, because he is elusive and dangerous.

The gripe at present is he don't do it enough, which i think is more of a team thing.....lack of quality holding players

when he is involved in the little offensive player triangles he looks comfortable/interested....keane , ireland, bent, Gabby

The problem is when we lose the ball we have no players to win it back quickly to keep these will o' the wisp guys interested.

its the bricklayer hod carrier syndrome......we ain't got any decent quality hod carriers.

I want McLeish gone, but with Randy choosing his replacement, it fills me with dread because of who he'll come up with next.

...Steve Bruce.lol

you only have to watch with regularity the same mistakes and problems time and time and time again.

It seems from the touch line ( and in lip reading mode)that the manager is not happy with what he sees.

It is just that he seems unable to do anything about it.

we seem very laboured as a side and show little evidence of intelligent movement in defence and shrewd closing down.

from the last few years , I can't remember seiing villa teams so inept at holding a lead.

Even in the cup final we held on to a lead for milli secs before we fell over the ball on the half way line.

......it just fill you with meloncholy. its all so unprofessional.

Pardew said we were wide open in the first half and tightened up in the second.

we are just wide open period.

I'd hate to think what the pro defensive of McLeish would be like if he did as good as Pardew. They would die of excitement, literally. It's embarassing people make excuses of a manager who pick up 1 win every 4 league games per average and always set us up not to lose.

When people defend AM from unwarranted abuse they are branded as having some sort of great affinity for him, and even as put by one poster perceiving him as a messiah. The immaturity is astounding.

ain't nothing like a bit of exaggeration to keep this site alive.

its cut its teeth on it.

We're not too good to go down. And the same goes for a good many of the sides outside the top five or six.

At present we're just a mediocre also-ran, picking up the odd necessary points to ensure we scrape through, whilst underacheiving in spectacular fashion. But we will be there next season because we are not alone.

Its next season which gives me cause for concern.

Its every season that gives me cause for concern because we are not learning anything and nothing is changing.... as the old saying goes "we have changed the bowler, but we havn't changed the bowling"

At the end of the day we arent that good a side, we have a small amount of good players and we have an average manager but even with Mourinho in charge we'd realistically only be a few points better off and we'd still have lost yesterday.

We may only be slightly better in terms of points at this stage with a better manager but as fans we'd certainly be more hopeful for the future.

Too many fans are just looking at it short term. We need to build a team, we need a manager who can find good deals in the transfer market. We need a manager who through their coaching can improve the players and the football.

For me there is no evidence Mcleish can do this. So while a few things might go right I haven't seen enough to give me hope that in the future Mcleish will have us competing and more entertaining.

Last 2 paragraphs at this stage of the proceedings I agree with.

I think the team is having more effect on McLeish, than McLeish is having on the team.

Our longest spell of possession today came when the fans nicked the ball.

spot on

....so so frustrating.

Sorry Amo, not specifically aimed at you, just the general atmosphere on here.

It cant be a coincidence we have won 4 out of 6 away, and that includes today which for 83 mins was a very good performance.

At home - thats a different matter - the players look scared stiff to make a mistake because the crowd will be on their backs.

Take last week, Clark was done like a kipper by Frimpong for the goal, but the away fans sang their hearts out, kept with the team and look what happened.

If that happened at home, their would be booing, slagging off etc......

I am no McLeish lover, dont get me wrong. I said and will maintain I will NEVER sing his name. But at the moment it seems to me the fans are killing this club, not McLeish - they are willing him, and therefore, the players to fail.

We are as bad as Blackburn at the moment. And people, and I will name some - Brummybloke, Onlyone , youself to a certain extent, and others need to wake up and see it.

The reason we are winning away and not at home is the same reason we did it under O'Neill.

smash & grab football ( which we play)v possesion football (which we should play imo)

we rely on the opposition doing all the work and we coming along and getting the result...you can get away with that playing the lesser sides, the better sides will swamp you with possession and force you in to errors.

Its nothing to do with fear from the fans.

until we change the style we will achieve nothing and have fits and starts of pleasure.

The hardest thing to do is score goals and the most expensive thing to do is buy players to do it.

We scored 2 good goals today to have adequately won the game if we had a professional air about ourselves, we would have got some sort of result.

We havn't the mentality, we are sloppy without the ball. We don't get in players faces regularly enough or collectively to know how to win a game.

Its been the case for too long.....god knows what the coaches do.

Never in the reign of pigs pudding.

We just ain't good enough to move forward.

**** me I swear 95% of villa fans are only happy when they've got something to moan snout. On negative tactics, we play exactly the same now as we did.under his.holiness Mr oneill. We just don't defend as well. We had.a patched up midfield with zog and alby injured,its no surprise arsenal pasted us. We urgently need a new centre half, a battler and comander, mayby huth from stoke

You are absolutely correct we do play exactly the same as under O'Neill.

NO **** POSSESSION.

But yet under him we managed to win games like this. Go figure!] Because 3 seasons ago we had a back four of cuellar melberg laursen warnock, young milner Barry downing in midfield and carew and gabby up front. We won because we had a far superiour team then to the wasters we have atm.

well, I seem to remember going to the Emirates and seeing Villa under O'Neill containing them for c 60 minutes Fabregas comes on 3-0.

Its been going on for years mate

Ps My point is the managers and players are changing......The style of football isn't.

Are you kidding me? Wolves destroyed us. How we won that game I will never know. Pure smash and grab!

Thats exactly what we are Aston ( smash&grab) Villa....no substance.

and thats what we have been for years.

possession is our overall problem.....and it has been for years.

Yep we posses some terrible players and a poor manager.

well its funny, because I thought today with Agbonlahor, Ireland, Bent & keane, as offensive players ...does it get much better.

but,we simply don't apply ourselves.... and more importantly, don't know how to win.

the defence and midfield lack the necessary guile, granted.... but we had a forward line to trouble them.We go 2 goals up and all the weaknesses are their to see.

just like wembley against Man U

When is this club going to wake up.

possession is our overall problem.....and it has been for years.

The game was exciting and we played with great desire, but if you have 2 clowns in the team you can't have any ambition.

Arsenal had three goals gifted: one by Dunne, one by the referee and one by Hutton. But it was the Dunne's silly foul that decided the game, as usual.

You dont need to be Leonardo da Vinci to realize that at the end of the 1st half they were overwhelmed by whistles of their own fans, and to comprehend that if we had resisted for 20 minutes they would give up. There was only one thing to avoid, to concede an easy gol, and Clownne did it, as usual. I only wonder if his huge wages are paid by AVFC or AFC. . .

When the collective force is not at work.....individuals will make mistakes and individuals will then be picked out.

collectively we did not defend......and moreover the majority of the time we don't.

its a team thing in my view.

we simply let them back in and they got out of jail.

**** me I swear 95% of villa fans are only happy when they've got something to moan snout. On negative tactics, we play exactly the same now as we did.under his.holiness Mr oneill. We just don't defend as well. We had.a patched up midfield with zog and alby injured,its no surprise arsenal pasted us. We urgently need a new centre half, a battler and comander, mayby huth from stoke

You are absolutely correct we do play exactly the same as under O'Neill.

NO **** POSSESSION.

This game for me was a typical O'Neill Game..... poor possession.... just counter attack.

We go 2 goals up and crash, why?

We cannot defend and by that I mean stay in control of the ball. Despite our 0-2 scoreline the imbalance in possession was embarrassing. We do not know or maybe have the ability to close the game down...so by some players playing hoof ball we invite them back in.

Its a shame really because so much good work by some players was lost on others.

If we are to progress, we really have to address these issues.

If we had of gone 2-0 down, would we have come back to 2-3... No

WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO

Oh i had forgot you are the bizarely MON obsessed and continual odd "MON was crap" and to blame for everything poster of the board.

Something else that you post wrong.

The bizarre obsession with O'Neill seems to come from the people who cannot accept that he has gone, and have not been prepared to give either of his successors a chance.

On the record again, I have always thought that O'Neill was crap (although I gave him a chance), and I smile when I see people slag off McLeish, whose CV and style of football are almost a mirror of O'Neill's.

I smile also when our current 'problems' are used as a measure of the 'success' of finishing 6th for three seasons on the trot, for two of which at least there was a complete failure to show improvement.

I don't, and never have, blamed O'Neill for everything. It was not his fault that he was handed responsibility that was above his capabilities, and he cannot be blamed for acting like a child in a sweet shop.

My opinion (this board is about opinions, in case you have missed that) is that given the backing that he received, pound for pound, O'Neill has to be on the list of worst Villa managers ever. Had he managed to improve upon that 6th place and overtaken Everton, or deliver us an odd Carling Cup, then perhaps we could look at his time differently.

He is a hero in Glasgow, Dublin and Leicester, all understandable, but the worship of him by some who frequent B6 is completely illogical.

Interesting post....l like you thought o,niell had his good bits....6,6,6 did not win me over, not being ungrateful, but for me it wasn,t what we did it was the way that we did it. When he walked out his 4years work lasted 5. Minutes hoof football has little shelf life......and that's where it left us after spending a decent sum to achieve it.

I,m with you on this subject.

Ps sorry about my previous attempt tried to do it on an ipad.... cause my backs gone....made a pigs ear of it.

If I was a betting man, I would say he will not make it with us.

before or after his injury i have seen nothing to suggest he will.

I'm not attracted to his gangley gait and he gives me the impression of not being in control....bit of a loose cannon.

I like a midfielder to be in CONTROL, to have time and not be rushed.I like a midfielder (where possible) to have quick feet with a tight gait as there is not much time and space in Midfield and a good first touch is really helpful.

I simply don't see this.

by all accounts a lovely lad and I would dearly like to be wrong.

PS first time I saw Gareth Barry.....knew what we going to get.

Who gives a shit who he supports, wind your neck in. He's not the type of player to go into games half arsed. He's a battler who'll give his best anytime he pulls on the shirt. He did the first time round and he's doing it now for Sunderland even though he is home sick.

If we have any money get him in Eck.

I couldn't care less who he supports to be honest. All I care about is the fact that he's shite and we did well to get rid of him in the first place. Average player at best and I see no benefit in signing him. If the argument is to use him as a squad player then it's a waste of space and money. We already have better midfielders than him (including his brother) and some promising midfielders coming through the ranks (like Johnson etc).

I really don't see the point in taking two steps back and signing Craig. I can't see any logic from those who actually want him back either. It would be a pathetic and pointless piece of business for us...

The only half-reason to want him back, would be if you had his name on a shirt before he left or if you didn't want him to go and are too stubborn to admit bringing him back would be a waste of money.

Firstly, we sold him for £3.5 million, he went to Sunderland for more than that and we'd need to spend a bit to get him back.

Secondly, and more importantly, we should not be buying squad players!! It'd be as good as signing Harewood, Sidwell or Beye.

The next midfielder we buy should be combative, experienced, and should push Stan to the subs bench. The way to build a squad is to buy better than you have. Not waste your money on players that you'll imagine replacing in the next transfer window.

spot on.

Who we support matters, who they support don't.

you have to separate the difference between work and play.

Andrew whing used to drink with us in the Aston social, he was a Villa season ticket Holder, playing for Coventry.

They are professional football players.....its their work.

What they do for recreation is their business, they might not like football as a hobby or conversely they may support your fiercest rivals.

I have it on record when asked when he was at the blues " would you like to be the manager of villa" he said " I would love it"

That's a given though isn't it? It's like asking a tramp whether they would like to live in a mansion.

is it?

Would Fergie want to be manager of city?, would Dalglish want the Everton Job, would Moyes want the Liverpool job? does Redknapp want the Arsenal job?

I ain't so sure it was ever a given.

He could have said " any premiership team other than Villa"

I was making a joke about how much of a step up we are over SHA. The gap between us and SHA is much bigger than teams like Man U and Man City, Liverpool and Everton etc.

sorry, for misinterpreting your sense of humour.

I just took the guys comments on face value....He didn't have to say it.

ps I'm not like a number of Villa fans, who are preoccupied by the blues.....I have absolutely no interest in them....I wish them no harm....but they do not register one iota on my richter scale.