nick76

The main objective today was getting 3 points which we did thankfully.

Going forward the Board needs to decide whether keeping Eck as Manager is going to be the right thing to do for the Club.

If the answer is yes then they need to fund the correct signings required to strengthen the team if that is possible.

Alex McLeish still has a mountain to climb if he is to get supporters on his side, It is a near impossible task,if he achieves it we will all be happy!

When there are people like Trent Villa refusing to offer praise to him when we win, what chance does he have. If he keeps winning matches opinions like TV's become irrelevant, let's hope for the sake of the club he can follow this win with another against Bolton.

So while people like Trent and me will briefly say well done on a decision, overall until he proves different on a consistent basis then it was luck that it paid off.

Remember we were only 30 seconds from another draw, equalling the worst home run since 1921.......I think you need to take that on board when viewing our reaction.

I just don't see why he's still here after the results and performance this season, even the board has to see it. They just must be keeping him because they can't afford to pay him off......given the long term implications this is crazy.

Stats are against him, we have equalled the worst home run since 1921, the football is abysmal, it's hard to argue against the fact that most Villa fans would rather him not be here, his media comments are poor or at least contrary to what happens on the pitch and while above the relegation zone fans are relying on the teams below us being so bad (which they are) to avoid relegation rather believing we will get ourselves out of this predicament......

While I agree with the overall tenor of your argument, Nick, we have not yet equalled the 1921 record! It will be equalled today if Villa fail to beat Fulham.

Sorry to be a pedant but we can't accuse McLeish for something he's not (yet) guilty of!

It's still very much a shock as to how much the media aren't on his back.

I just don't see why he's still here after the results and performance this season, even the board has to see it. They just must be keeping him because they can't afford to pay him off......given the long term implications this is crazy.

Stats are against him, we have equalled the worst home run since 1921, the football is abysmal, it's hard to argue against the fact that most Villa fans would rather him not be here, his media comments are poor or at least contrary to what happens on the pitch and while above the relegation zone fans are relying on the teams below us being so bad (which they are) to avoid relegation rather believing we will get ourselves out of this predicament......

When it was SHA I laughed. Now that it's Villa I'm angry.

That said, watching Stephen Warnock's errors can be quite amusing, provided they don't result in the opposition getting a goal.

RANDY Lerner has given pep talks to the players on his regular visits to meet with Alex McLeish and watch Villa train at Bodymoor Heath this season.

Lerner has only attended a handful of matches at Villa Park this campaign because of his family and business commitments back home in America.

But the billionaire chairman/owner is often at the training ground to talk with McLeish and the players, including three visits in the past month.

Lerner, chief executive Paul Faulkner and McLeish have been plotting Villa’s summer squad rebuilding plan, despite the recent struggle for results.

And captain Stiliyan Petrov revealed Lerner has been passing on upbeat messages to players and Bodymoor staff about the future direction of the club.

“He has been to training quite a few times and he’s been in a good mood,” said Petrov.

“He’s tried to give positives to all the members of the club, we hope that this year we will be comfortable and next year we hope we will kick off with a better start and better season.

“At the end of the day we have a chairman who is trying to run his books, he knows what is right and wrong.

“If you have good players, new players coming in it is always a help but if not we just need to deal with it.

“We don’t complain, we just get on with it and try to do our best for the club to try to get them as far up the table as we can.”

clicky

Yeah when are we allowed to voice our opinion.....we cant protest because it's either childish or wrong time, we cant do it during the game because we need to support the team, if we do it on forums we are just the loud minority and dont represent more of us.........please tell us when we can vocalise our frustration and mis-management of our club?

I've never been one to sit back and accept things, it's not in my nature

That is a hideous hideous, did I mention hideous kit

Another day gone and he's still here......I'm sure I'm living in a nightmare

I note the Generals very first post was a load of old bollocks then

I am on this Site because, like Randy, I truly care about what fans say and feel. We want to do right...we are not interested in screwing it up.

and now he has been outed how do all the posters who asskissed and pandered to him on his thread feel?

The same for McLeish, based on his history of managing and what he had achieved I gave him the same level of respect he deserved which was a big fat zero and he should never have been given the job in the first place.

So where the general failed my level of expectation in him, McLeish fulfilled the level of expectation in him.

I'm not ITK or anything and this is only a hunch but I reckon we could wake up tomorrow to find out McLeish gone.

Crickey - really..! In some ways I hope not as I think that could really rock the boat.

Has anyone heard if he has resigned..?!

Rocking the boat anyway could do us some good as what is currently happening is not doing us any good

Number of pages before he's sacked?

I'm going for 666.

Perhaps I'm a bit annoyed at the anti-Americanism on here. I think the US is a great market for Villa, a US owner will help, but we need to sign and play an American player.

But putting my irrational defensiveness aside, maybe any one of you who has spent more on villa than the multimillion RL has spent should have complete right to moan that he should have spent more.

(Insert irrational anti-English rant here.)

A Letter To Aston Villa

Apologies if it's already been posted, the site is still running a bit slow for me so it would probably take me longer to check properly than it did for us to end Wigan's clean sheet drought.

An interesting, witty and well written read that seems to be doing the rounds on a number of non-Villa sites at the moment.

Can't argue with the reasons behind it, Im just in two minds as to whether it would destabilise the team.

Once the game is won or lost, after the final whistle and when/if we're mathematically safe then 100% yes but the bigger picture is we have a long of youngsters in the side and they need the encouragement to keep us up.

Away kit based on the Napoli home kit

So, to sum up. McLeish gets to go on a boys jolly to America to look at a "model" at Cleveland Browns which has seen them consistently finish bottom of their division. The reason he's there is because he failed to motivate his team well enough, or to change the shape of the side, to sucessfully hold a 2-0 half time lead against a badly mis-firing Arsenal side. Villa have won, what is it? 6 from their 25 games this season went out of both cups early and currently lie 15th in a piss poor Premier Division where Swansea City, Norwich City are above us. What a fanfuckingtastic decision it was to appoint him. And yet, THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE ON THIS SITE WILLING TO STICK UP FOR MCLEISH. Get real people.

People only hate him because of where he came from...

Its not the only reason, but it is a still a massive factor and always will be.

Those who pretend it's not really a major if not THE major factor, should re-read the posts on this site from the first week he was appointed. He wasn't hated then "because of how badly he has set us up to play" as some pretend is their whole complaint.

So, to sum up. McLeish gets to go on a boys jolly to America to look at a "model" at Cleveland Browns which has seen them consistently finish bottom of their division. The reason he's there is because he failed to motivate his team well enough, or to change the shape of the side, to sucessfully hold a 2-0 half time lead against a badly mis-firing Arsenal side. Villa have won, what is it? 6 from their 25 games this season went out of both cups early and currently lie 15th in a piss poor Premier Division where Swansea City, Norwich City are above us. What a fanfuckingtastic decision it was to appoint him. And yet, THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE ON THIS SITE WILLING TO STICK UP FOR MCLEISH. Get real people.

So 2 accidentals yes, who are the other 18? Liked to know the reasons apart from the reason of 'nobody better out there' because that's fairly lame excuse

In the grand scheme of things, a 1-0 loss to Man City isn't bad. Many people were going to the game assuming we would be completely turned over.

Perhaps Heskey's physical presence did help with the defensive side of things?

My opinion is that McLeish made a good choice in dropping Warnock, and a clever alteration by bringing Cuellar in (he could have easily put Baker, Lichaj, Hutton or Stevens at left back).

The midfield was set up well, Albrighton back to fitness to hit them on the couner, Petrov & Gardner (presumably because Clark was injured?) in the middle, but then Heskey on the right was slightly less attacking than many of us would have liked.

But then we did play with Bent & Keane up top.

If we'd have played Albrighton, Bent, Keane & N'Zogbia OR Ireland with only Petrov & Gardner in the middle and we'd have been trounced 5-0 or 6-0, then people would just be slating him for going too 'Gung Ho' and not giving Petrov or Gardner enough cover. I really don't think he can win.

We contained them until their goal, and we did have attempts on goal ourselves.

City looked like they wanted to just keep possession for most of the game, even when it was 0-0. Our players did work hard to get the ball back - mostly Keano! But we lost to one poorly defended corner.

I came away from the game thinking we could have had a point, and that would have been more than most of us had expected.

I understand people's frustrations that we didn't attack more, but I really don't understand the anger at losing a game 1-0 when we did attack, we did have chances on target and we did contain them for the majority of the game.

He does really need to pick up some points in the next few games though, if he doesn't then we are going to be dangerously close to the drop.

I could argue why his decisions were wrong and go through each of your points but I'm running out of energy keep arguing and debating about this manager. If people are happy or not willing to change the issues we have I'm starting to lose hope, I just can't see how people can defend this and then McLeish have the hide and say what he did in the post match interview......just very sad about it all......

Finally seen McLeish's post match interview, if people defend him after that then there is no hope.

This is my appeal to any Villa supporter considering protesting tomorrow.

It is your right to air your veiws / displeasure at the current situation at the club.

Think; what do you aim to achieve? What are the possible positive outcomes?

Will this have any influence on the decision making process of the senior management at the club?

No - why?

In such a relativeley short period of time since the (controversial) appointment the only key factor that will be assessed when considering to continue with the current course of action will be the threat of relegation and the resultant financial consequences. Is this currently likely? Pragmatically speaking; no. We are clear of the relegation zone with some favorable fixtures on the horizon. To simplify this, according to the current odds there are 6 teams judged more likley to be relegated than us and our odds are very distant from the 4 most likely teams to be relegated.

Maybe you think that fan discontent leading to decreasing attendence will be a fator?

Again, no.

Our senior management have set us on a course, a strategy, of transition. AMc currently has a net spend of minus £20 million. Our form, position and stuttering consistency are to be expected during this transition phase, and thus everything that goes along with it, fan dissatisfaction, reducing attendence, will be factored into the strategy. Unless we are seriously threatened with relegation (see point above) we are on track as per our strategy.

At this point we must recognise that these are accepted short term factors. In the longer term, if performances don't improve then the choice of manager will be brought into question. No matter how unpopular AMc is though, if the team is doing well, attendence and revenues will reflect that fact.

As per the issue of attractive football; this is largely irrelevant. Fans want to see success. Success equals increased attendence and revenues (the way that some people talk you'd think Villa have been Barcelona for the ast 5 years!).

As for now, our senior management will know that, ratioanlly speaking, there has not been enough time to judge AMc (as per our strategy) and they have made decision for the medium / long term and will stick to them.

So, I feel it's unlikley that protestors will achieve anything significant towards their objectives (which as far as I can tell have not been clearly stated though I assume they're primarily focused on removing AMc as manager).

So what are the potential negative consequences of protesting?

1. Most important - pressure on the team. The whole point of being a supporter is to support the team. Whilst positivity can lift a team and cause it to over perform, negativity will almost certainly cause it to under perform - even when directed from a vocal minority. So you must consider whether your actions are worth the likelyhood of having a detrimental affect on the team.

2. The reputation of Villa fans - we are already seen as fickle and this will not help our cause. This is already being discussed in the national media. Think about how the reputation of Blackburn fans has suffered; we don't have half as much to moan about as they do! Whether you like it or not (or even care) this will reflect badly on Aston Villa's fans. It will be a repeat of the summer fallout where our fans were made to look a national laughing stock.

So if you want to protest tomorrow, just reflect on whether where we are as a club and the potential impact on our reputation is worth it. Supporting a club should be a selfless taks, are you really thinking about the club or yourself?

I would never deny the right to free speech, but I am very much anti the protests and what they might mean for our club and will have no problem telling that to any protesters I see tomorrow

Some of your arguments I don't agree with.....doing the protest is also a selfless task as well because we know it will hurt the reputation slightly of Aston Villa but we are doing this for the long term benefit of the club. One step backwards to move two steps forward.

Accepting the current situation for me means I am not really supporting the club as the welfare of the club is being hurt by this current manager and as a supporter I must act now to stop this continuing. While you may not agree with me this is my feelings on the subject. Doing nothing I feel I am not truly supporting the club as I'm letting the welfare of my club decline and I'm not doing anything to stop that.

Your argument now boils down to giving people a chance even if they aren't good enough......I'm shocked

It doesnt at all.

It boils down to - not jumping on their backs purely because you think hes not good enough. Especially if the person saying hes not good enough, doesnt know his arse from his elbow when it comes to being a football manager.

So far we dont know if hes not good enough or not yet because hes only been there 6 months. And what exactly is good enough? Because so far hes won exactly the same as the previous managers over the past 16 years or so. **** all, albeit - but what exactly is our benchmark?? IMO, (based on the last 20 years) its inconsistent form. Hes pretty much gettin that nail on the head.

You may be happier and think it is a joke! I would say you are being simplistic and picking on some good points but then I could throw back loads of bad points and issues, and you dismiss some of them and I would come back with some argument and we would get nowhere apart from difference of opinion.

The basic thing though that while you don't agree with the protest, other people feel they have to have their say and unfortunately a protest is the only means those people have to voice their opinions more than on a message board. You think it's a joke which is unfair on those people, you have to respect other people feel different and have some valid reasons. There will always be some idiots there as well who will obviously embarrass us but the sentiment of the protest is still valid to some villa fans.

So saying it a joke is wrong, you may not agree but that is your right

You're probably right, each person is entitled to their own view.

My only concern is, I'm not sure what a protest will achieve

Get behind the team, yes......get behind the manager, no!

I dont see how you can get behind the team without getting behind the most integral part of that team?

Without a manager, we havent got a team.

If people are saying that Mcliesh (i.e. the manager) and the team are two seperate aspects of AVFC, then it seems ludicrously unfair to pinpoint the blame at Mcliesh for the teams failures??

Point is, the arguement that its possible to get behind the team and not the manager is bollocks.

Think many people are mistaking supporting/getting behind as singing/cheering etc, when actually, just erasing the whole 'i want you to fail' attitude that ooozes around Villa Park would go a long way imo.

there is a difference between 'I want you to fail' and what I believe is 'I know you are going to fail' distinct difference and very unfair on villa fans that you state that. No villa fan wants villa to fail.

How can you get behind a team without getting behind a manager......obvious....support the team emphatically when they are on the pitch! Don't care what the manager does.........just give the players as much support when they are playing, despite poor tactics, poor player formations and no idea how to adapt when circumstances change......that's how

But by cheering the team on, your inadvertedly cheering the manager on imo? Hes the guy that puts them there.

You mention dispite of poor tactics etc for the players. Why not support the manager in spite of poor players, better oppositions, lack of investment in the squad, limited skill level?? You know, is Mcliesh 'being shite' (not exactly my view btw) a reason not to get behind him?? Is that what we do nowadays - discourage those who arent quite good enough - and indeed not quite good enough - on the basis that a load of absolute know it alls (who in the grand scheme of things, know absolutely buggar all about running a professional football team), say he isnt. Of course the obvious answer to that is he got relegated twice so he isnt good enough! So we live in a world where nobodys allowed to improve, and learn from the mistakes they previously made?

You really have got it tits about face if you refuse to support the teams manger (who you can blatently see is giving his all) and yet you support a set of overpaid players, who turn up as and when it suits their preferences.