M_Afro

18 minutes ago, av1 said:

So you acknowledge that Smith has taken over a team in freefall yet believe a top 6 finish should be a minimum requirement? 

You're making no sense at all. 

Compared to the team that Tony Barton inherited yes. Answer this question. What evidence is there that DS can deliver at a club like ours? Blind faith is all that you can base your support upon. I prefer facts. His record at Villa, the only big club he has ever managed, is rubbish. He does not even try to change things apart from personnel. His formation and tactics remain despite poor result 

2 minutes ago, av1 said:

I wonder how  @M_Afro would have reacted to the appointment of Tony Barton at the time given he had never managed before 

I don’t Know too much about it. It worked out in the short term. It does seem to be different . He took over a team that was doing well. Smith has taken over a team in freefall

2 minutes ago, av1 said:

 

This is fecking hard work. 

Where do you both think we should be then? Because I would I happily swap our squad with those of Leeds, WBA, Sheffield UTD, Norwich and probably Derby. 

Leeds, Shef U, Norwich and Derby all finished below us last year. Not that much has changed in terms of personal. We should be doing better than we are. Top 6 definitely. Point is what we are doing now is pretty irrelevant. It’s about having a manager who can deal with the whole situation. Look at/listen to Dean when he first arrived and compare it to now. He is not coping. The results are almost irrelevant. He looks totally out of his depth.

4 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Oh yes, I forgot we are so superior to every club in this league.

We won the European Cup in 1982 don’t you know. 

Ha ha. Not the point I was trying to make. History and expectation do play a massive part though as does the fact that more people turned up at B6 today than turn up at Brentford all season. That is today not 1982.

Just now, av1 said:

No, you're missing the point, as evidenced by your very next sentence.

You say that "quite rightly" Brentford are thrilled with finishing 10th, so the fact Smith took them there is an achievement no?

It is. You’re right. Point is they are different jobs. People think that if you achieve better than expectations at a small club that you will automatically transfer that to a bigger club. The jobs and pressures are completely different. There are loads of managers who have done great things down the pyramid whom have stepped up and fallen flat on their face. I feel, based on the evidence of about half a season, that Dean is just another of those unfortunately 

1 minute ago, av1 said:

Rather than lisening to how a Aston Villa quantifies his performance at Brentford and Walsall I'd rather listen to how fans of Brentford and Walsall quantify it. All of whom think he did a great job. 

Not doing a great job at a massive club though is he? That’s sort of the point

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

There isn’t, no. 

There was evidence that Bruce would do well (4 promotions), look how that ended up.

I’m happy to give him a chance based on the teams he built at Brentford.

And before you say ‘we’re Aston Villa’ blah blah - we’re a mid table championship club. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Smith in!

We aren’t a mid table championship club though. We are a mid table championship team. Huge difference in my view. Smith very much out

1 minute ago, av1 said:

 

Based on the fact that in his first summer at Brentford he signed 14 players, all of whom are either currently still performing in the Brentford 11 or have been sold for massive profit. 

But hey, let's forget about that and pretend our board employed him because his dad was a steward. 

You are missing the point. Do you think managing Brentford is similar to managing Villa? Watch his first few press conferences and then watch his last few. That is what managing Villa is about. It’s comparing chalk and cheese.

Let’s also not forget that Brentford have never achieved anything, have fans that expect nothing and are thrilled, quite rightly, with finishing 10th. Chalk and cheese! 

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

I fully trust him. 

I think he’ll do a great job.

Based on what though? I want him to do well but there is no evidence that he will

El Ghazi, Albert, Kodj and Elmo are all much better than him. That pretty much says it all really

Never seen him dominate for a whole match........fact

Just now, KHV said:

Based on what? 

This is the key point. Of all the people backing Smith to rebuild what exactly are you basing this on? Surely we would be better employing somebody with a track record of actually doing this rather than backing a bloke simply because his dad used to be a steward!

I said from the very first day that appointing Smith was a mistake. This is a massive club, in a massive state, representing a massive challenge requiring a massive personality. Smith is not that man. He has been found out so easily. Nice man but not the right man for us. I wish him well but at the end of the season, he must go.

5 minutes ago, av1 said:

It's nice to see that you haven't noticed that we actually play a 4-3-3. 

 

2-0 win. 

Ask Tammy if he thinks it’s 4-3-3. The two so called wide forwards did not get within 50m of him on Wednesday!

2 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

Same formation again by the looks of it but with different personal. Tactical genius this bloke! Try something different pal ffs!!!! Making my WBA win/draw bet look extremely safe.

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

What I think will happen.

He will get 1 more good result - maybe today.

with top six looking like being settled early - he will win a few meaningless end of season games.

he will overhaul the squad in the summer - but start next season poorly - and will be sacked before xmas.

This is where I am too. For this reason, if we do stumble along to the end of the season, I would get rid then. It’s a big call but every one of our seasons in this league has been messed up with an awful start. I would get a new manager and let him rebuild the team. 

He has always done ok for us. He works hard and never hides. He also really cares. I have never understood the amount of abuse he gets. Would take him over Hourihane, Thor and Jedi any day of the week.

He watched a very different game to me! Also, why is he scared of playing Brentford! What have we become!

We just played a team who started the day 7 points behind us. A team that Smith knows intimately. He will have the unusual insight of knowing all of their strengths and weaknesses. He could not have had any more advantages in preparing for this game. Anybody who says that they have better players did not see Bruce’s team play them off the park earlier in the season (I know we only drew but we were so unlucky!)

They just thoroughly battered us. Our team and manager never played a shot. It was embarrassing. This guy will not improve us. Of course we are stuck with him now and must give him more time to prove that he is not good enough but I have no faith in him!

2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Ahhh, Shut up mate.

Im off to bed. Firmly behind Smith and hope he puts it right in the summer. 

UTV.

Intelligent comment my friend. Sleep well. School in the morning 

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

Absolutely. Who we playing in midfield then? A diamond of Jedinak, Whelan, Hourihane and Mcginn? Maybe throw Bjarnasson in there for some added quality in the final third? Or maybe throw a 17yr old in there who’s never played in the first team.

When will people realise we have a crap squad of players.

I need to stop posting on here, it’s bad for my health.

It’s his job to get the best out of the players he has. Our midfield is rubbish. Why persist with trying to play through it? Play 4-4-2. Have Davis up top with Tammy playing off him. Play direct. Have Davis to hold up the ball whilst the support arrives from a rigid 4 in midfield who are otherwise sat behind the ball. 

It would be fairly rubbish to watch but would almost certainly garner more points than the crap he serves up every week. We could then adapt our style as we adapted the squad. Doing the same thing every week and failing every week is not good management. This guy has achieved nothing in the game and yet people talk about him like he is a Jedi! He is a mid table championship manager and guess what we are becoming!!!!!!!!!!! 

34 minutes ago, Sam3773 said:

I'm in a similar boat - I optimistically wanted Brendan Rodgers and cited concerns with Dean Smith prior to his appointment. I do, however, believe if Rodgers were on 19 games with the same result, there would be many more people wanting to give him time. 

I can only put that down to experience and form. Rodgers can't rubbish because he's proven at other clubs, something Smith doesn't have to back him up sadly. 

Where we differ is with the players. I don't believe they're good enough, especially to play the football Smith wants, with a high tempo requiring a more youthful set up. There are, of course, exceptions where we have played very well, but we had those moments under Bruce. The odd 'Lord mayor's show'. 

While I remain frustrated that we're not competing and the performances have been poor, Smith has to get summer for me, unless we go on a long spate of losses now. It would leave us in the same boat come October if he has a poor start next season, but it's only right he gets to drill his methodology into the team over the summer break, and bring some fresh legs into the team. 

The alternative is another rinse and repeat, and another manager some won't agree with. Currently though, I really do think he's doing as good with this squad as any manager could do. 

I hope you’re right! Time will tell I guess. I really want him to succeed. He is a good man whom, despite a ridiculous haircut, deserves our respect!

1 hour ago, Sam3773 said:

I think that's a bit of an exception because of how they played, or didn't, for the last manager. They were seriously underpeforming before. Can you say the same for our players? 

I think it is a fair comparison to be honest. At Championship level we are very similar to Man U at Premiership level. We are the biggest, best supported and most successful club in the championship with the highest of expectations from our fans. I also honestly believe that we have a squad of players capable of competing with anybody. We showed this against Derby, Middlesbrough and West Brom.

It is the job of the manager to get the best out of the players at his disposal. I do not believe that Smith is close to doing that, excepting the early matches. I hear lots of fans criticising the attitude of the players and yet surely it is the role of the manager to deal with that and eradicate any issues. 

I genuinely did not want Smith because my feeling is that managing AVFC is an entirely different prospect to anything he has done previously. That does not mean he cannot be successful but the risks associated with the appointment are large. I also hope that he proves me wrong but thus far I feel that my fears are proving to be correct. I do not buy into the opinion that he must be given time. If, by the end of the season, things have not improved, then I would get rid of him and show a bit more ambition with the next appointment. I really wanted Brendon Rogers and I really believe he, or someone of similar quality, is attainable if we show enough ambition.

2 minutes ago, Sam3773 said:

The first 19 games of our last two managers:

Smith: P:19 - W:7 - D:8 - L:4 - PTS: 29

Bruce: P:19 - W:7 - D:5 - L:7 - PTS: 26

Just for interest, how were the first 19 games under arguably our best manager for years:

O'Neill: P:19 - W:5 - D:10 - L:4 - PTS: 25

What about other high flyers? How were their first 19 at the clubs they're managing? 

Farke: P:19 - W:6 - D:6 - L:7 - PTS: 24

Jokanovic: P:19 - W:5 - D:6 - L:8 - PTS: 21

Add in to the mix, because you can, the 'excuses' of a widely injured squad with no settling, the complete lack of a defensive set up when he joined, operating under tight FFP restrictions in January, our best player out for most of that time and a chocolate goalkeeper, and he hasn't done too bad. 

But no. We're Aston Villa Football Club and unless our manager hits the ground with 19 W's under his belt, it's bedsheets out at dawn.

How’s Ole Gunnar getting on in his new job?