peterms

Great report. Conveyed the atmosphere very well.

I'm just wondering why at 7 this morning, with the result known, the poll said 50% of those predicting on this site said SNP, and now it says 48%. Who has cast their vote after the election for a losing candidate? Is it some of those people who think MON is lying in a jacuzzi and will make no signings this summer?

Keir Hardie would be turning in his grave if he knew what the LP has become, never mind the poll result.

It's miles away. About 50 miles geographically. About a thousand miles in the perception of people living in the respective constituencies. It may as well be another continent. Silly aircraft carriers - no, that's Clyde, 15 miles away (a million miles mentally) and Rosyth (oop north - at least 10 miles further north, but in another hemisphere). Life expectancy - yes, lower than the Gaza Strip, as we are always being told. It really is another world.

Not massively popular at the moment. Labour here tends to be more Old Labour - but not the good aspect of that, ie the principles, more the reliance on patronage that characterises places which have been a one-party state for too long. That is mixed with a New Labour topcoat, and it doesn't feel like a marriage made in heaven. Politics here is probably more tribal than in large parts of England, and places like Glasgow East are among the most tribal. So it would be quite a feat to lose, whoever you put up. I think they might lose. If they do, it will be low turnout of Labour supporters that does it. I don't think they are likely to be massively unhappy with the previous MP or the candidate, but the combination of no strong reason to support other than traditional loyalty and a few grievances might make quite a few people stay at home. On the other hand, the Nats will be able to get their core vote out, and stand a good chance of picking up quite a few protest voters and floaters. Not the kind of place they could hold at a general election, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them win this time, no matter what the polls say.

No, you're wrong. I've been listening to the BBC, and it's clearly "Glahhrrs-geau".

I wouldn't say so. Perhaps listing negatives before positives can give that impression, but I thought the points made were fair and balanced, if you take the thing as a whole. It was a great season, but there are several things which need to be improved, and I think everyone from MON downwards is well aware of that.

There was an interesting comment from someone in China on the radio the other day. (Being radio, of course they stopped the discussion from taking place, quickly moving on to more trivial issues). They were challenging the unthinking western assumption that a one-party state must necessarily offer less political choice than a multi-party state. The argument is that when there are different factions, groupings and shades of opinion inside a single party, and when there is some means to influence and support one grouping over another, then it is perfectly possible to change the political direction of a government through political action. I don't imagine anyone would actually disagree with that, if they thought about it. The next part of the argument is that the choices offered by multi-party systems are often illusory. With this one, I think that most people in this country who give an opinion are so conditioned by the line they will have heard a million times from their childhood on, that they think it's simply self-evident that multi-party states are more democratic, and think any other view is automatically nonsense. Looking at the US elections, with a large number of people disenfranchised and the remainder choosing between two parties who completely agree on most things, concentrating attention on a handful of issues which divide them to magnify the differences, it's hard to see that as much of a real choice. I don't know enough about China to say whether there are aspects of political life there which really do offer more political choice than aspects of our system, or whether Tianenmen Square prefectly reflects the totality of political life in that country. But I do know that it's entirely possible for the assumptions we so casually take for granted, to be misplaced.

Voting = democracy = freedom? A couple of false links there, I think. For example, a vote between two candidates who essentially stand for the same thing is not a real choice. A democracy which takes freedom away from a minority group is not a free society. This idea that we can vote on a few very narrowly constrained topics between people who essentially have the same standpoint and therefore we are free is just a way of misleading people, to head off revolt. The US is if anything even worse than us, in that the candidates standing have barely any perceptible difference between them (except to people who are so close to it that the minute differences seem a real choice). Hobbes argued that the legitimacy of government was based on its "contract" to protect the population from harm. A reasonable proposition. So when a government makes active plans to increase the risk to its population, by inviting a foreign country to base nuclear arms on our soil in preparation for aggressive action against a third party, and makes plans for managing the deaths of millions arising from miltary retaliation to this strike and suppressing the revolt which follows, as our government did throughout the 80's, where does that leave either the proud boasts about "democracy" or the legitimacy of the government?

Personally, I think that caravans should only be allowed on public roads between the hours of 3am and 4am. And not allowed to park on any road which is publicly maintained. And they should not be allowed to cluster in groups of more than two, anywhere which is visible from land to which the public have a right of access.. And should be required to be clad in army-issue camouflage at all times. And no reversing allowed, unless the driver has proved themself competent in an advanced driving test. That'd sort the ****.

Sooo...people visit Versailles because they want to see the French Royal family? Oh no! They're dead! Maybe the tourist income would continue even if they weren't there? Well, probably. Actually, I'm just refining some business plan projections of the likely effect on national income and expenditure of hanging the royal family from lampposts, one by one, and selling tickets and TV rights. Initial findings are that while it would have a net benefit to the economy, lampposts are probably too restricted a platform to maximise the revenue stream. Limited views and all that. So I agree that they have a clear economic value. Just not necessary to allow them to prance about at our expense in order to realise that value. Other methods are available.

Speaking of whom, I quite enjoyed the digested version of her book.

Who will win? It doesn't look good for Labour nationally at the moment. Could it be because This government has been the most rightwing since the second world war?

I agree. There are different reasons for canvassing, and canvassing directly affects turnout. Of course, if you want to canvass, it helps not to have alienated your core support, or else there won't be the foot soldiers to do the work - just the phone calls from paid staff at a party office somewhere...

I'm intrigued to see that they refer to themselves as knuckledraggers.

I don't think it's as black and white as everyone is making out. Why not have the best of both worlds? Shave one side of your face, and leave stubble on the other. If you get the feeling early in the interview that they much prefer one look over the other, turn that side of your face to the interview panel and speak out of the side of your mouth. Always works for me.

We took the lead, they played perfect football till half time at which point MON had his words and we got in their faces and deserved a point would be a better summary IMO I agree with that, though I thought the article was very good and a useful reminder of a good season.

I'm struggling to think what that might look like, and how people would notice.

Second hand information? Nothing like a slice of hypocrisy! Second hand information is hypocrisy? You have to directly observe everything you accept is true, or you're a hypocrite? Yes, I can see how that will make for a more sensible approach to life. :? No, Doctor! I cannot accept your advice about my child's imminent need for an operation until I have spent seven years qualifying myself, and carried out several similar operations to test their likely success. And I do not accept your suggestion about the probable temperature of the sun until I can fly there myself and test it personally. And so on... Actually Peter, Ian accussed me of only having second hand information on my view on the UK, stating that I hadn't been home in a while. Now Ian is having a view on a country he has taken a 2 week holiday in, hence my hypocrisy comment. Nice attempt at sarcasm though! Touche. I should have read the whole thread. :oops: :oops:

Second hand information? Nothing like a slice of hypocrisy! Second hand information is hypocrisy? You have to directly observe everything you accept is true, or you're a hypocrite? Yes, I can see how that will make for a more sensible approach to life. :? No, Doctor! I cannot accept your advice about my child's imminent need for an operation until I have spent seven years qualifying myself, and carried out several similar operations to test their likely success. And I do not accept your suggestion about the probable temperature of the sun until I can fly there myself and test it personally. And so on...

There's a lot to be said for protest votes. But a vote for the BNP isn't a protest vote. It's a vote for racism. There's other options if protesting against the majority parties is the issue. Does anyone really stand in the polling booth, thinking "Oh, I don't really care. They're all as bad as each other. I know! I'll vote for leather-jacketed thugs beating up black people, not that I'm a racist, it's just to make a point"? I don't really think so. Maybe a handful of people who are so dim that they really don't understand what the BNP is about. But for the vast majority, people who vote BNP know about and approve of their politics.

On a side issue, how could I spoil my ballot paper in a VT poll?

Really good report. Thanks.

Bicks, did you ever do this? If so, was it any good?

Yes, it's impressive. The equipment is ace. I think the more fundamental point is that you've got a good, natural photographic eye. I think the stuff you post is really good, and you have a real talent for this.