4Serious

Whisper it, but we just might be going up.

When the refs are making blatant mistakes in your favour in a match of this magnitude and you're on the run we're on you begin to believe something special might be cooking. Crowd gets an assist on that one today too.

I hate Houllier at the moment but you don't toss a guy this soon. He had a good transfer window, if he has another good one in the summer we'll start winning games. The defensive problems all season have been 50% injuries, I'd say. I can't forgive him for giving up the cup but being rational I'd say stay.

On the subject of Houllier's responsibility. He's responsible for our softness and lack of spirit. He's responsible for what happened on Weds against City and the effect that had on the boys. But I think that's as far as it goes today. He picked the best team he could and they played well enough to win. The defence was a disaster because of who was in there. Nothing Houllier can do about that when Dunne, Collins and Cuellar are out. Nope, the attacking players had to carry the team today and failed when it mattered, most glaringly with Ash's penalty miss. This one is on the players.

When I moved to the US for 3 years I couldn't properly follow the Villa at all due to work and lack of TV / time difference. I can't tell you how much higher my mental state was at the time. I should really drop this bunch of fuckheads but once it's in your blood you just can't quit it. You don't want to care, but you have to. It's a **** disaster.

I'm not trying to troll here but as soon as the capitulation against City I put a fair amount of money on Bolton just to soothe the pain of the inevitable loss. When will managers learn that surrendering in the cups NEVER works? Sorry for the caps but just WHEN WILL THEY **** LEARN? At least I made a bit of profit on 15 quid. I shouldn't have bothered, I don't give a shit right now.

I think the guardian match report gets it right...

There's no shame in going out away to Man City. There's huge shame in not trying to win. I've supported Houllier from the start but capitulation is the one thing I can't stand in football. What a joke. I'm neutral on Houllier now. If he was sacked in the morning I wouldn't give a toss. And also - just how much **** rest does the modern footballer need? What a farce!

We are going to miss this guy big time once he's gone. When you have a quality keeper you never think about him. When you don't the keeper is always the first thing on your mind. Congrats to Friedel - a model pro.

Can still win this - draw's not a bad result. Not a bad position. Let's go and get it. Gabby for the winner.

It's funny - I almost never think it's a handball. We always claim for handballs as a crowd or whatever and I'm thinking 'take the claret specs off!' but when it happened to us you all thought it was still a pen so I guess it isn't bias. Never, for me. Unless the guy is looking at the ball or has his arm out I just don't see how you can give it.

Really good game. I thought Stoke played some crisp football to begin with - I was surprised. In the middle of the half things got very open and exciting, that suited us and all of a sudden we had a hold of the game. And, unusually, we didn't let go Strange that we probably scored the hardest chance - that was a truly stunning header.

There's no doubting Downing's sheer talent - that goal was bizarrely well taken. If only he was more consistent.

This all hinges on whether Gabby plays or not. Stoke can deal with the 'big man' threat of a Carew or a Heskey all day long. Our 'constant crossing' strategy won't pay much dividends here. However, get the ball on the ground and let Gabby chase a few through balls or balls over the top and you can stretch them out and give Ash Young some space to operate... On the other hand, our defence is a classic english style too, and Dunne, Collins and Cuellar are the perfect sort of players to deal with Stoke's style of play. So while it looks like an incredibly tough game on the face of it, I reckon we could do this. A lot of people are saying 'they've lost three in a row, that can't continue - I usually think the same way, but what if it's because they're just not any good?'

I stopped reading this thread about 150 pages ago as I think it's all pretty much been said, but one last go for old times sake and to get the thread to 600 pages! Anyway, this is exactly how I feel. There was no one out there to obviously take us forward, so I've resigned myself to fully backing the next man whoever he is, at least for the first couple of months. As long as the guy had some previous success - that was all we could ask for. Houllier has had some success. I don't like it, but he has a better CV than most available managers. This isn't Bob Bradley. There will be bad defeats at times - there would be under any manager. The key is keeping a cool head even if it wasn't the manager you wanted. If we're bottom half of the table after January I'll be pissed off. Remember, if it doesn't work out we can do this all again next year and maybe there'll be a real manager available / maybe we'll have time to look for one before they're all snapped up. It's not pleasant, but that's what happens when your gaffer walks out 5 days before the start of a season - shit gets **** up.

I watched MotD, then thought, 'I bet no-one on VT will mention this ridiculously pro-Villa bias!' Cheers for proving me wrong, it was pretty outrageous! Bore no relation to the match I watched on sky, then made out like Albrighton was some kind of genius when he had two or three good moments in the entire match! On the other hand, they were trying to get Phil Brown the job, so you win some you lose some...

I thought Beckford was the difference between the sides. Put even an average striker on the pitch for Everton out there today and I feel they'd have won. He was woeful, a real league 1 player out of his depth. It made me reconsider what I'm saying when I say Carew was 'poor'. When I say that I mean Carew didn't reach his potential and / or work hard enough. Carew at his poorest still has moments of class. Beckford was miles out of his league today.

They're going about it the right way, imo. Steady the ship, look at all available candidates, figure out what you want, keep the fans in the loop, look for premier league experience, appoint someone. The only problem is the lack of qualified candidates.

I think all of us who said NRC must play to shield the defence in certain matches (both this year and last) feel pretty good right now. It's nice to 'have him back'! However, watching him carefully, I'd forgotten how bad he is on the ball - his short passing is wayward far more often than an average player, his touch isn't great, and he seems really easily disposessed. But you can't deny the work he gets through closing passing lanes etc - it's essential. I thought we played a magnificent 'away' game today, and I think NRC should play in all our away games. I thought Carew offered nothing in terms of effort, pressing or runs. I'd drop him if we're gonna play on the counter - we need to have possession and be putting in cross after cross for Carew to make sense. What I'd do away from home or against the big 3 is - GK and defence as today. Young---Petrov---NRC---Downing ------Ireland------------------------ ----------------Gabby--------------- With Ireland playing Ash's current position, just a little deeper. Or if you want to leave Ash where he is (because he's playing out of his skin imo), then you drop Ireland and bring in Albrighton - though I thought Everton passed around Albrigton very easily today - he has a lot to learn about defending.

What a performance from the back 4, Friedel and Petrov. Petrov gave a real captain's performance today. In fairness to MON, he bought a lot of good defenders last year, and he bought men of character who held out brilliantly. On the other hand (and I know it's not the time to moan - I'm just being realisitic) I actually think that match hurts Kev Mac's candidacy. He was going to play Ireland in the middle again - we would have been hammered. He was unable to change the game to give us a foothold. He didn't remove Carew for a long time despite the fact that he was doing absolutely nothing and we were struggling hugely - Gabby pressured the ball at all times when he came on and it was a huge improvement. I don't know, I think the win was both a) lucky, and down to the players' reaction to the last 2 results, rather than McDonald figuring it out. Last thing though, I did say last week that it's better to win a game 3-0 and lose 6-0 than to draw twice. And now look, 4th in the league!

Friedel's past it, they said.

Marc could've been sent off there if he didn't nick he ball. Oooh! Great save!

Downing doing super defensive work in the last 5 minutes.

5 minutes - that's utterly ridiculous.

Oh god please not Lichaj, please please please. He's not nearly ready.