KentVillan

1 minute ago, Risso said:

How are Leeds doing this season?  How long did the manager before Bielsa get?

(Yes I know, they've been down here for aaaaaages, but even so.)

If a manager of Bielsa's quality and track record suddenly became available to Villa, then fair enough, it's worth considering an early switch. Benitez or Rodgers might fit that bill.

But the impression I get is that the Smith Out crew on here would be happy with a Fat Sam or a Pulis or some equivalent manager from a foreign league - i.e. managers who have never come close to winning a top-level competition in their careers.

Let's not turn against JT. We have no idea how much influence he has, what he's contracted to do, what mistakes he's made, etc. A lot of this thread is just people jumping to conclusions, and people turning against a top player who gave us a good season and has always spoken highly of the club.

Been trying to work out what's going on with Hourihane. This whole podcast is interesting, but listen to 4:48 here on Dean Smith's attention to detail and Villa's attacking football. Makes me wonder if Hourihane's problem is nothing to do with DS, but more to do with him being a bit soft when things turn against him. With Grealish out and no decent water carriers in the side, Hourihane is exposed, and he can't handle the pressure. I still think he's a decent footballer in the right setup, but despite having the same accent as Roy Keane, he clearly lacks any of his fight.

2 hours ago, LakotaDakota said:

August 6th to May5th is 273 days.

273 days to cram in 46 games, I just don't know how these poor people getting paid 2 million quid per year to play football can possibly cope with the demands of actually playing a game of football every 6 days or so

Your salary doesn't make you fitter. As you get older, you accumulate more injuries and weaknesses, and your body takes longer to repair the normal damage from 90 mins of football. This isn't like you playing three games of 5-a-side a week... these guys are going flat out, and unless your name is Ronaldo or Messi, it catches up with everyone at some point in the season. Tammy is looking tired, for example, and you can hardly criticise his attitude or professionalism.

6 hours ago, sne said:

I don't really buy that the type of football Smith wants us to play is so complicated or demanding that he needs a completely different set of players with different abilities to make it work.

It's not revolutionary stuff. Pass and move, pressing and what not. Every footballer can do, if they want to.

Think the issue is more that we have ad elderly, non motivated squad full of players who know they wont be here next season, they don't care.

You can see that the heads are gone on a lot of players, sure you can argue that it's Smith's job to motivate them, but with what? 

Sadly those who still try are either a bit crap or does no longer have the legs to make it.

With that said I don's think Smith is anything special in the world of football and if he can't get a tune out of the players for the rest of the season I think it would be sensible to look elsewhere to see if we can attract a higher quality manager.

I think actually for some of these players, "pass and move, pressing and what not" is very far removed from what they've done for their whole careers. Sure, they can pass a football accurately, but it's the positioning, movement off the ball, how long they keep the ball before releasing, the decision making, etc. which might be unnatural.

Also, players are individuals with personalities and opinions, and varying levels of intelligence. Pressing systems are particularly prone to one or two players not doing their job. Some players are very adaptable to different systems (I reckon Whelan fits into this category) and some struggle unless the team suits their style (Hourihane, Kodjia).

I've only watched the highlights of the West Brom game, but Hourihane is again at fault for one of their goals with a pathetically soft tackle. When you're turning relatively easy tackles into 50-50s, something is wrong with your attitude. Hourihane in my view is a selfish player who plays for goal / assist stats and highlight reels. Smith should drop him, but it's hard to see who replaces him!?

I'm frustrated by recent results and agree with some of hippo's points about Smith's record being overegged, but I still think he's dealing with a really shit hand, and has also been quite unlucky with injuries and freak goals. I would only support sacking him if a very good replacement were available, and if it was a sensible time to change the management (i.e. not mid-season). I think realistically that means giving Smith the whole of next season. We've had decades of underachievement, what's another mediocre season in the grand scheme of things? If you back your managers and give them time, you become a more attractive club to play at or manage.

15 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Well the best performing players were brought in by him, recalled by him or John McGinn

My worry is that is actually the problem at the moment. He's getting good performances out of "his" players, but he seems to have lost all of Bruce's players, who still make up most of the team. I wonder what's going on behind the scenes.

5 hours ago, hippo said:

I don't think any great number want smith out right now. I have 2 concerns

1.He has never had a good defence anywhere he has managed - leaking goals has meant his teams are anchored in mid table.- Scoring goals has never been an issues for Smiths teams.

2.Do we gamble on him next season with his own players doing something he has yet to do in his management career ? - If (as highly probable) he gets the benefit of the doubt - and start next season we run the risk of having to replace him mid season when the pool of managers to pick from will be very small.

What I can't fathom is the reasoning that if we stick with Smith through thick and thin then ultimately he will come good - plenty of warning signs for me - if I were a betting man I would bet on us being in the market for a new manager in October/November.

But I will admit to being fickle - if Smiths get us in the promotion placing early next season - then great everyone is happy (even me !) 

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that if we stick with Smith through thick and thin (e.g. 2 more seasons of mid-table mediocrity) that he will come good. We're just saying that he's done nothing so far to justify most of the criticism.

A lot of people are jumping to huge conclusions based on a few games.

We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, what system he's trying to instil, who's listening to or ignoring his instructions, who's pissing him off but has to play anyway because of lack of options, etc. We can guess at a lot of these things and read between the lines from matchday performances, player history, news reports, and interviews, but from the limited number of games we've seen, it's mostly just guesswork.

It's very hard to tell the difference between a badly coached player and a selfish idiot. It's also hard to tell the difference between a badly coached player and a well coached player who is still adapting to a system.

Remember a lot of these lads are either a bit dim or very set in their ways (or both), and it can take months to retrain their instinctive movements and decision making. Imagine if you've spent your whole career pumping the ball down the line from full back, and you're now being asked to look first for the inside ball every time... and the player you're meant to be passing it to doesn't want it, because he only cares about his YouTube reels, and the only player who does want possession in the middle of the park is long-term injured? This isn't stuff that just suddenly clicks a few games into a manager's tenure.

The way for a manager to get quick results is to keep things simple, familiar tactics, round pegs in round holes, work on a few setpiece routines. Let the players play their natural game. I thought we brought DS in for something more ambitious? Purslow has a plan to build a team around young players, affordable wages, and an attractive, possession football style. He identified DS as a good candidate for making that happen. None of that stuff is going to happen overnight.

My sense is that DS's big dilemma at the moment is Hourihane: he offers real quality on set pieces and goals from midfield, but he also lacks quality defensively and in possession. These weaknesses are less of a problem when DS can pull McGinn and Grealish back into a central three, which is why our possession stats looked a lot better before Grealish got injured. Now McGinn is playing higher, and Hourihane is either holding by himself, or alongside Whelan / Jedinak. That's clearly going to affect the possession game that DS was trying to play, given the intrinsic qualities of those players.

I don't see an easy solution to this problem. Same for the full back problem - you're not going to change Hutton and Taylor at this stage in their careers. As far as I can see, they've both always played the exact same way under every manager they've ever had. There's stuff like this happening right through the squad. None of it will be fixed until DS has had more time.

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Which is not good enough for us

Top 6 is absolute minimum next season

We have better resources than Brentford, don't we? I didn't think that needed to be stated. I despair.

2 hours ago, hippo said:

I agree Smith isnt on Klopps level. I dont even think he is on Ian Holloways level.

Klopp had previous before joining liverpool....Smith previous ........??? oh yeah he got Brentford 9ths..

You have a point about Smith's previous record. Brentford had already finished 5th the season before he arrived. But before that they had been a third-tier team for decades. He helped make them a perennial Championship side. They were also going through a transition from a Manager model to a Sporting Director + Head Coach model when he arrived. Clearly Brentford's club leadership and fans thought DS did a good job of handling that, and I value their opinion more than yours.

I still say it's a win-win for us with Dean Smith. If it doesn't work out, he'll leave behind a young squad that another head coach with a similar philosophy can inherit, and hit the ground running. Purslow is finally abandoning the panic transfer policy and high wages for bench warmers strategy that has been f***ing this club for years. DS buys into this, and for that alone, he deserves a chance.

12 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Smith is obviously trying to change the club and this takes time, time I’m sure he will get.

The one thing that I find most odd though, is where has the pressing gone? When he first came in we were pressing high up the pitch, winning the ball back in dangerous areas And always being on the front foot. However, we seem to have stopped that now. I just don’t get it. Yes we were conceding goals, but we were also creating so much, despite three goals yesterday I wouldn’t say we were that creative. Yes Grealish is out the team, but surely he can’t make that much difference. 

It was two last minute goals in consecutive weeks (Albion and Leeds) that derailed our confidence, hoping the last couple of come back will be enough for us to gain confidence again. 

I agree this is a huge problem. Pressing is a whole team effort, and you only need one or two players to shirk their responsibilities for the whole thing to fail. It also requires a lot of stamina to do it for 90 mins, so you normally either need to dominate possession, or do it in bursts.

My sense is that with Grealish in the team, our players get a lot more time to catch their breath and find their shape. He helps us manage the pace of the game and retain possession. Compare that with Hourihane or Jedinak who receive the ball in space and immediately ping a speculative pass into touch.

I'd judge the pressing tactics on the players who have a future under DS (i.e. the younger lads). They all seem to be pressing and tracking back (McGinn, Tammy, El Ghazi). It's the lads who are playing for their summer transfer who are more concerned with scoring a good goal or playing a Hollywood ball for the highlights reel (Kodjia, Hourihane), and aren't helping out (was the same with Bolasie).

22 minutes ago, Brentfordnylons said:

If you get shot of DS before he’s had time to work with better players then your owners need to be held to account.I posted on here when he joined about the set up he left at Brentford where none of the players he inherited or were  signed during his time were from Prem league or even the championship they were from lower leagues or abroad the majority being under 22.He has inherited the opposite at Villa and it’s obvious you have too many players at the end of their careers or on loan(something we stopped doing 2 years ago)Would expect Dean to be asking what the director of football is doing regarding getting good young players signed for him to work with.

 

Majority of Villa fans are still on board. Unfortunately, it's always the vocal minority who make the most noise. The signings we've made so far all point towards a sensible long-term strategy (something hippo says doesn't exist in football).

15 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Thats the 2nd time this season the ball has been knocked out of the keepers hands when he's had both hand on it. Jay Rodriguez punched it out of Nylands hands earlier in the season and it wasnt given.

Whilst I'm on the topic, its worth pointing out how many pelters Nyland got for that from you lot, yet when you're all being rational I don't see anyone blaming Kalinic for pretty much the same "mistake"

Nyland was making howler after howler on an almost weekly basis. He was standing up and in a position to come to the ball, hold it firmly, and deal with the challenge. It was such a soft goal to concede, regardless of the handball.

Kalinic was lying on his back and had to reach for the ball. It's not the same mistake. Agree, though, that Kalinic needs to put together a run of good games, or he'll soon become a target for the same abuse.

1 minute ago, New_Jersey_Villa said:

Glenn Whelan totally changed the game for me. Jedi couldn't pass a fart and we looked so much better when Whelan came on. (Can't believe I just said that)

Probably some of the worst officiating I've ever seen, not just their second goal, but the entire damn game!

Ecstatic it was Greenie who got the equaliser, welcome home Andre! 

Yeah, as soon as Whelan came on, we started playing the ball through the middle. I'm not sure how much this is Whelan being a good player, or Jedinak just having an absolute stinker. My sense now is that Grealish was helping to cover up the lack of quality in centre mid by coming deep for the ball. With him out, we've exposed how bad our DMs are. On current form, I think Whelan is our best option (I did think it would be Jedinak, but he just doesn't look remotely match fit or interested.)

Just now, dounavilla said:

John "The mini Milner" McGinn. What a warrior !! I have alot of man love for him 

Love him, but thought he had a below par game until the last 10 mins.

Just now, LondonVillian said:

What teams have a better squad than us? 

With Grealish and Tuanzebe out, I'd say most of the teams above us. They have settled midfields and defences. We haven't been able to do that. If you're talking about our squad on paper right now and ignoring injuries, then yes I'd agree with you. But given that we're currently in 8th, that's not really saying much is it?

Just now, LondonVillian said:

Our squad is easily in the top 6 in the league - anyone saying otherwise is delusional.

Smith tactics since have been inept since xmas - yes ref was abysmal but where we for 85m. 

Point merely papering over the cracks . 

 

No it's unbalanced, and our star player is injured.

Am I the only one who thinks Taylor was at fault for the third goal? Steps up far too wide and leaves a huge channel between him and Mings. Yes, Jedinak doesn't track, but he's probably expecting to have a defender behind him.

4 minutes ago, LondonVillian said:

So no fullbacks in the world available ?

Not at good prices. The January transfer window is a rip off. We sorted out the most critical problems - GK and CB - that would have the biggest impact on results. Hutton and Taylor will do for the rest of the season, and then we can get someone at a fair price in the summer. We found one fullback, but presumably loaning him back for half a season was part of the deal.

2 minutes ago, Razor said:

So what was the problem in all the games he didn't play? It can't be just him

Let me rephrase it - our lack of a good defensive midfielder is the problem tonight, and has been one of our problems all season. Other problems were GK (sorted), left back (not sorted, and playing shit tonight), CBs (sorted, I think), and RB (having a good game tonight). Does it make more sense now?

Jedinak is the problem. Doesn't look match fit. I do understand the thinking process behind bringing him in, though. I also think Kodjia as a wide forward attacking the far post makes more sense than Smith is getting credit for. We don't have the players for a 4-4-2.

The long balls are happening because we don't have the confidence to play through the middle without Grealish in the side. Best attacks are coming from Hutton.

I don't really see what DS does to solve this, besides bringing Whelan on for Jedinak!?

5 hours ago, Dave J said:

Having followed us since my first game in 76/77 Royal Antwerp at home - I will share this, in my view villa park atmosphere has always been hit and mis - why ? I have no idea. Sometimes the atmosphere is amazing and others totally lacklustre.

Maybe size of the ground might be a factor whereby " singers" are spread too thinly and maybe stop bothering?

 

Yep, definitely a problem sometimes that the ground is "too big for the match". Similar problems at Sunderland and Sheff Wed. I think also we're a club that went from years of being a mid-table Premier League side to now three years of being basically a mid-table / play-offs Championship side. When was the last time a league match really meant anything? Maybe when we stayed up narrowly under Lambert. Even the season we got relegated it was hardly a nailbiting, touch-and-go thing. Before that I suppose the season when MON nearly got us into the Champions League was great for the fans. But most of the time it's just been the slow drip, drip, drip of mid-table mediocrity for YEARS. I can't think of any other club that has experienced this total lack of rollercoaster excitement over such a long period. Anyway, tonight should be a decent game for the neutral... fingers crossed a decent one for us too.