KentVillan

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Regardless of his height I think Butland has gone backwards since his injury and will be a huge mistake to sign him

A "huge mistake" or just not quite the player people thought he would be 5 years ago?

There will be at least 5 worse keepers in the PL than him next season. He'll be better than Forster, Ryan, Hennessey, Dubravka, and whoever ends up in goal for Sheffield Utd, and you can argue about most of the rest.

Don't see this as a big risk. Don't think his injury is hampering him now, although it might have delayed his development a bit.

Only a huge mistake if we pay well over the odds for him IMO.

1 minute ago, A'Villan said:

Part of the game in my opinion. Some get away without picking up the injuries better than others. The demands on the body are quite strenuous at professional level.

Mings has been a professional for 6 years now, and was involved with a professional club as a junior as well as receiving a football scholarship.

If there was an aspect of his technique that was evidently going to cause him injury, there's a good chance it would've been identified at one of the institutions he has represented.

Outside the elite clubs (none of which he has played for) I'm not sure things are always as advanced as you think.

3 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

yeah, i dunno, he only missed games for us due to suspension in the 6 months he was with us didnt he?

But yes, i also commented somewhere that i was concerned as he came down with cramps a couple of times (which seemed strange as they were just normal 90 minute matches), and looked like he had a niggle a couple of others (nothing official though), so know what you mean, i have no idea though.......i suppose only signing him to find out would show us one way or the other??

I would love us to sign him, but if you assess it with a level head, we can only hope his injuries are in the past, as technically he played 15 matches for us in 6 months, he only played 17 matches TOTAL between July  2015 and Jan 2019 (3.5 years), due to 608 days (1.5 years -ish) worth of injury and being unable to get back in to the team when fit.

Yep totally agree. Would love him to sign. He's proved on his rare outings in the Premier League that he can compete at that level, and he was superb for us last season. But I think we need plenty of cover, as I don't see him as a 40 game a season player.

3 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

 

Mings got his major injury (ruptured ACL - 387 days injured) on 29.08.15 vs Leicester, i cant find any videos showing exactly how he got that injury, so i cant comment, but i would say its just as likely his ACL injury is  nothing anything to do with tackle foot/angles, as to be related, cant say, its likely nothing to do with it.

The second injury was his back (Sept 2017 - 221 days inured), all i can find on that is that he "got a knock on the back", and was in immense pain, so thats certainly nothing to do with tackle angle/foot etc.

 

Quite extensive injury record though, if we did sign him we can only hope his major injuries are in the past.

Thanks for the extra info, interesting. I'm not really talking about the major injuries, but about the fact he often seems to pick up niggles (which make you more vulnerable to major injuries, anyway). Seen several Bournemouth fans mention this point - that he often looks like he's carrying a knock when he plays.

Was worth it to drag this thread off announce Mings.

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Good post but surely most players slide with their stronger foot right?

You might be right, I don't have the stats. I feel like a top pro should be able to do it off either leg? It's not as hard as striking a ball with your weaker foot, is it?

Moving back on to Mings the footballer. My concern with him is that his injury problems are due to the way he tackles.

There isn't that much footage of him defending, but I've found two examples of him using his left foot to hook the ball from a player running to his left side, when most players would use their outside (right) foot to hook around.

Play-off Final

This is one you'll all be familiar with, and not the best photo. It was a superb tackle, but you'd expect most players to swing their right foot around here for a more natural slide tackle which keeps your body in a better position.

Non-league game

This is from a clip he posted on his own Twitter of his rise up the divisions. Again, great tackle, but his body's in a weird position and he's exposing himself to injury.

Could this be why he picks up lots of weird injuries? Is it something that can be fixed at this stage in your career or do you just have to go with your natural game?

I don't think any of this has a bearing on whether Mings does or does not sign. It is however very sad that people don't understand how irritating they're being.

I've gone for 9th, but that will depend on Grealish and Mings staying fit for most of the season. (And us signing Mings. And us signing loads of other good players ...)

I'm not sure Kodjia has really dropped that much since the injury. It's more that DS prefers a lone striker, Tammy was on fire and Kodj didn't adapt well to the wide role.

As a centre forward I would still fancy him as injury cover or an option on the bench (e.g. use his hold-up play to defend a lead, or switch to a front 2 when chasing a game). His hold up play and finishing are very good IMO, which will be more important when we enjoy less possession and fewer chances.

See this video as an example of a good post-injury performance:

4 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

the problem is we dont want to wait until deadline day.

If we end up waiting until the last minute and it doesnt come off, we may not be able to get someone suitable in the time left and end up in a right pickle.

IMO we need to get it done by a certain time, or move on and find someone else.

I love Mings and would be gutted if he didnt come, but at the same time we cant put ourselves in a precarious position of not having a center back in place 10 minutes before the deadline.

Im hoping we get it done asap.

Yeah, I'm not saying this is a good situation, but what we want and what ends up happening are two different things. Bournemouth have no obligation to sell up quickly.

If I were Eddie Howe, I would want another club to get involved and drive the price up. I'd know the Villa interest is concrete and what Villa's opening offer is, so I would already factor that into my transfer budget.

I'd also want to send out a message that I can't be bullied into releasing players quickly. Especially by lads who I think have disrespected me and the club in the past.

Everything points to this happening much later than expected -- perhaps even deadline day.

And here's an interesting video with plenty of footage of Butland:

On 18/06/2019 at 16:07, Thats2 said:

I was surprised about Pickford too so I did some digging and found:

Victor Valdes: 6’0

Keylor Navas: 6’1

Igor Akinfeev: 6’1

Iker Casillas: 6’1

Jan Oblak: 6’2

Ederson: 6’2

Hugo Lloris: 6’2

Marc ter Stegen: 6’2

Kasper Schmeichel: 6’2

Those are some of the best keepers in the world, and not all of them are considered ‘sweeper keepers’. Maybe we shouldn’t concern ourselves so much over height.

It's notable that none of the ones below 6'2 play in the Premier League (besides Pickford, who is not one of the best in the world).

The biggest weakness for small keepers is usually dealing with the high ball. That takes on greater significance in the Premier League, where teams tend to be strong on set pieces, and you have tall centre backs hitting the box.

Good time for a tough fixture. Transfer window disruption, lack of match sharpness, etc. can act as a bit of a leveller, plus we'll be an unknown quantity to them. Eriksen is probably off to Madrid, which would be a big loss, as he's at the heart of most of their play. Kane seems to be heading for an early retirement if he keeps playing with injuries. There's definitely a few things going in our favour.

Last season Spurs lost at home to Liverpool, Man City, Wolves, Man Utd, and West Ham. They're beatable, and they have bad days.

BUT obviously Spurs are still strong favourites. We barely have enough players for a starting 11. A lot will depend on how much we strengthen, and how quickly. If a few deals go down to the wire, it could be a pretty weak team we end up fielding.

3 hours ago, terrytini said:

Whilst I see the point you make, Id argue that we were in one titanic battle from March onwards and the players appeared to thrive on it, as did the staff, and the fans. And although the opposition was easier than the PL it included all the top half who were also fighting for promotion.

And Mings actually expressed himself a great deal WHILST being an absolute defensive rock.

I don't think the poorest 10 sides in the Premier League will be as stern a test of character as that.  I'm confident we will thrive.

 

Yep, and I mostly tend towards the view that Mings will be a revelation in the PL with regular game time.

Mings was in a no-lose situation when he arrived here in January, though, and we've dominated possession in virtually every game since then. I also think the quality of the poorest 10 sides in the Premier League is a big step up from the top of the Championship, with maybe a couple of exceptions. So there's no doubt next season is going to have a different feel to it, and that might suit some players more than others. 

I guess I was just leaving a note of caution that not everyone who starred last season will star next season. Mings might be one of them, although IMO he should be a top drawer defender. The only player I'm 100% confident has the ability is Grealish.

But yeah, not disagreeing with your general assessment.

16 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

I’ve seen Jack take Liverpool apart at Wembley, he will be fine in his PL career - whether he can fulfil his potential with us is a different question but I hope so!

Yep, absolutely no question that Jack is PL quality, since he's been there and done it. The unknown with him is whether he can consistently hit the level expected of a Champions League player.

As for all the other players, I agree with the poster who said that we can't be sure about any of them. Being under the cosh most weeks is a different mentality from dominating every game. Some players relish the battle, some prefer to be able to express themselves. Mings could well fall into the latter category.

I also worry with Mings that he contorts himself into some weird positions when he makes last-ditch tackles. Great commitment, but it's probably how he picks up niggles. He often makes tackles and blocks with his left foot that he should be making with his right foot (good example being the tackle that finished him off in the play-off final). He'll be doing a lot more of that next season than he was in the Championship.

Just wanted to mention the absolute state of Phil Neville wearing his Gareth Southgate outfit.

Also agree that the goalkeeping spoils an otherwise decent spectacle. Plenty of outfield players who have really decent touch and skills, but the keepers are uniformly embarrassing.

On 08/06/2019 at 15:18, thunderball said:

Successful managers like Jose Mourihno bringing Carvalho and Ferreira with him from Porto?

He won a Champions League with those players, so they were clearly already at the right level to play for Chelsea. Barcelona picked up Deco from the same squad.

My point is that Brentford are a mid-table Championship side, and some fans seem to be getting excited about what DS can extract from their players in the Premier League, purely because of their deep understanding of Deanball. It's nonsense.

I'm all for DS signing squad players who he knows have good characters, if the price is right. But Brentford are no mugs in the transfer market, and for that reason, I'm not convinced they offer us loads of value.

Anyway, I wasn't for a moment saying that Purslow and Suso are naive enough to go down this route. Just that it's a recurring theme in this discussion that we will somehow get amazing performances out of all DS's old Brentford favourites.

On 08/06/2019 at 15:14, srsmithusa said:

Yeah, it’s alarming that all of Deans s recruits are former brentford players....

except for el. Ghazi,  Ming’s,  Kalinic, Hause, that kid who finished the season and plays right back,   All  you have to do is forget those (and perhaps more I’m forgetting) to believe that utter nonsense.  

Nobody said all of his recruits were former Brentford players. But we've been linked with a lot of Brentford players. Not hard to understand why people are discussing it, is it?

6 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Yeah I kinda agree. There's a whole world of players out there, I'd be disappointed if we were only looking at Brentford players.

I very much think that's not the case though, just lazy journalism. 

Yes I hope so. The Jota signing does support the idea that he is keen to bring in his own men, but we seem to have got good value there, so it’s okay.

What I don’t want is us overvaluing Brentford players as marquee signings for next season. There are loads of successful managers who have a distinctive style of play who have achieved that at a new club without fishing in their old pond — Klopp doesn’t have any Dortmund players at Liverpool, for example.

DS has already shown that he can get good improvements out of all sorts of different players and personalities, so I’m only keen on picking off Brentford players if they offer good value. 

20 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said:

I think Benrahma and Maupay are real qualities. Konsa have a great potential. The others are ok. Its just the fact that they are Dean’s players, and could fit his style.

I hope we don’t get too fixated on this idea of “Dean’s players”. Successful managers look forwards, not backwards. 

On 07/06/2019 at 10:54, rodders0223 said:

He isn't a superb footballer though, even someone like JT who never gets the credit he deserved for his actual ability is lightyears ahead of him at 36 when it comes to moving a football off either feet.

Even David Luiz, I will take the brain farts and error because I do actually think in his prime he could play and brought something to a back 3.

John Stones can't play, he isn't even that great on the ball to even come close to making up for the brain farts.

Look, I mentioned John Stones because I don’t rate him. However, he is very good on the ball for a CB. Maybe not as good as he sometimes gets portrayed, but there’s a reason Pep hasn’t sold him.

The JT thing is a slightly separate point - I don’t think JT ever got appropriate credit for just how good a passer he was off both feet. But you can be a “superb footballer” and still not be anywhere near one of the greatest CBs of his generation.

I really like Gary Cahill as a player, but here's why I'm worried about us signing him:

• He made 8 appearances in all competitions last season.
• He's been making more mistakes since around the time Conte first came in - getting caught in possession, picking up red cards, etc. - all signs of ageing legs and lack of focus.
• He's a one-season signing at best for us, so we're going to be disrupting our back line next summer, even if he does a job (look how long it took to get some defensive stability in after JT retired).
• Yes he's decent on the ball, but he's never played for a high-pressing possession side in his career. Can you teach an old dog new tricks?
• Yes he's a top player, Premier League and Champions League winner, loads of England caps, etc. but he's a level below the really great England CBs of recent years (JT, Rio, Campbell, Adams... even Ledley King). All of those elite CBs struggled towards their mid 30s, with JT having to drop down to the Championship and Ferdinand failing miserably at QPR. Are we really expecting Cahill to do better than that at 33/34?

Still, if the idea is to have a good personality in the dressing room, and some competition for places to keep the young lads on their toes, then so long as the wages are okay, I suppose it makes sense. He can probably still do a solid job against a slower, more physical team. I just wouldn't get too excited about it.

John Stones. Don't get me wrong, superb footballer, but he still makes stupid mistakes that give away goals on a regular basis, and has been doing it several times a season since forever. Can't see him ever growing out of it.