KangarooVillan

2 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

4th most key passes per game behind KDB, Maddison, and Grealish in 19/20.

He didn't start every game. Only played 2465 mins

I don’t disagree - Buendia’s 2nd degree statistics were very good 19/20.

I just don’t know how they calculated or how much weight to give them.

For example, in 19/20 Buendia averaged 2.3 key passes/game. Kamada in the Bundasliga averaged 1.8 but had 15 assists

3 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Buendia already proven in the PL. That seems to be very important for our team.

Not really - 1 goal 7 assists in the Prem

5 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Whatever you think of Arsenal they did finish avove us, can pay higher wages and have the London pull and we don't have a big name manager.

If they really are serious on Buendia i can't see this one happening.

I agree - the amount of players these clubs sign and just sideline though.. Do Arsenal need him? Will he be played ahead of others already there? Are these even a factor for players?

14 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I do feel with him that he's a very good player let down by the rest of the team.

Much like us and how Grealish last season was being let down, it was all to be expected because it's survival. The Baggies have had a similar story but failed to secure survival and now we maybe wise to go steal there prized asset.

Maybe Pereira will be another Watkins, Martinez type signing where he just makes an instant impact and another player that is excellent through most a season. The kind of player that makes us edge closer to being a team that can rely on eachother to win even if Grealish is out. Creativity has been a problem without Grealish, not all the time but it has been a problem at times and we would be wise to start looking out more for creative players.

I wouldn't be so against the idea of having Pereira, Beundia and Dwight McNeil at the club alongside Jack, bring in a new CDM and Damn you have the makings on a lethal frontline and midfield. I would have Beundia on the right, Grealish attacking midfield, Dwight McNeil on the left and Pereira sitting behind Grealish with Watkins in his usual place and he's certainly surrounded by a creative tricky bunch.. Also have Ghazi, Mcginn, Traore on the bench and the squad and bench is starting to sound like a treat I believe. I do want Chuk and couple others to see gametime with the first team next season still but it has to be done at stages and to rejuvenate first team players.

Exciting times this Summer, who will be walking through the Villa doors and who else will be leaving? I think I would sell Davis and bring in Barry in his place for a start. Wesley I would give some friendly game time before season starts and if he doesnt impress maybe sell and then bring in someone who can supply some threat on field, supply competition to Watkins and kick ass when needed. I just hope Wes can show some early signs that theres a good player in there.

Wonder if Engels, Guilbert and couple other fringe stars will be leaving us, wontbring much in there sales but it's be something to put towards some players we do want.

DM would not play LW in our setup

2 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

No, but I expect my parents to leave me their money in their will.  Nassef is not young so his parents will be reasonably well aged and therefore their is a significant chunk of change coming his way at some point in the not too distant future.  He is also pretty wealthy in his own right, at $8bn as I understand it.

Equally, as others have said, the investment is just that.  Should they get Villa to regular top 4/top 6 and "superleague" status the club will be worth considerably more than they have invested.

How do you know what is in the NWSE shareholder's agreement?  Wes may be happy with dilution, if his reduced share is of a larger pie but equally may be content to invest alongside pro rata their shareholdings?  We don't know.

“Deano, oi, Deano, have an’ova £200m mate, ma and pa will be dead soon so it’s gravy mate, gravy” - NWSE

7 hours ago, paul514 said:

Neither does anyone else, that is just what they tend to cost when proven.

I’ll wager there’s been more very good players bought for less than £35m than for more than £35m

24 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Grealish, Traore and Buendia could all interchange thus bamboozling the opposition so much they will vomit and fall over enabling Aston Villa to score!

@Zhan_Zhuang for manager

2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Going to be a long tough summer for some folk seemingly by looking at this thread. Chris Wood. Ffs seriously? Whatever his merits, and he does have some, do you really think this is a likely target this summer?

We’ve spent the best part of 12 months building a scouting and analytical department and you think Chris Woods is going to be a target? Surely everything the club has done and said for 2+ years now should tell you this isn’t really very likely.

 

Literally no one said that

Just now, zab6359 said:

Can't believe Chris Wood is getting a Villa talk love in! Unbelievable the last type of CF I ever want to see at Aston Villa what a step backwards that would be. Sort of signing that would would make Jack say **** this I'm off to a team that want's to play football.

Passionate

Does anyone else kind of think Buendia’s style is a combination of Grealish and McGinn?

Some fine footwork, but a lot of butt action.

14 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Very much the case, except for the fact j expect the price will be way beyond a Smith signing...which will be the deciding factor for me. I don't feel like he's worth much more than 20m, if anything.

It's too big a chunk of money to spend on a player that has been very good but still has plenty to demonstrate. In years gone by this player would be worth very little, having provided so few assists last season. But with the increase in statistical awareness, the "expected" statistics get valued the same as the "acvieved" statistics, and then players start getting over valued. This isn't a criticism of the way things are, but more a perspective.

And I'm struggling to see how we could justify over 20m on Dwight McNeil (and I'm certain they'll demand even more), when Buendia is available for 3Xm (according to Norwich owners).

Seeking out unpolished diamonds and getting them for relatively cheap is fine, paying premiums for those that have yet to actually deliver much would have me questioning our choice. As its not my money to spend I only really care about relative value, and think Buendia is much further up that scale for most prices suggested for each. 

That said, our owners know what they're doing, so if they did go down the DM route (for 30m?)  and Buendia signed for Arsenal for 40m... I'd be raging,  and then no doubt find myself eating my metaphorical cap in 6 months time.

I’ve had this discussion with a few posters already so I won’t go over covered ground.

I think Buendia is a better player than Dwight right now, but the notion that he IS better is speculative. 

He has done it in the Championship, but his stats compared to DM in the Prem are basically the same.

DM has done it for longer though and is 3 years younger.

3 hours ago, striker said:

I’ve watched a lot of Villa’s games this season and haven’t seen much of that. Villa should go in for Neves at Wolves and sell Luiz if anyone wanted him. 

Why? Neves’ stats are basically the same if not worse.........

4 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Why do people seemingly want major surgery, again?

Give me 2 or 3 players of quality and let's go. We're way beyond the need for half a dozen new faces to integrate, in fact it would be extremely detrimental. We certainly don't need an overhaul to challenge for Europe. 

Buendia being the big fish would be delightful, bring it on. 

Because someone posts an article from Twitter quoting the Sun and everyone melts down about how we need a new keeper.

5 hours ago, HalfTimePost said:

Heatons contract ran out because we gave him a 2 year contract. 

Maybe justified considering his injury but we were all touting him as Englands number 1 before his injury.

I'm not going mad about it, like I said, squad managed better than I can remember, but it's silly that we're going to wind up paying for another keeper if true.

(FWIW I think Steer is good enough)

He was also 33 at the time...

3 hours ago, tezzaleed said:

not seen any of his YouTube clips.  I can just remember him from watching him in Burnley games,  YouTube clips can make anyone look good or bad.  don't agree that just looking at goals scored and assists over two seasons is a legitimate review of his stats.  I'm not going to engage further as he's unlikely to come so this is a pointless argument.  

Lol just want to make sure I’m getting this right.

You came in, stated DM has ‘clear talent’ and has shown ‘consistent quality over 2 seasons’, labelled another poster’s very honest and not overtly negative opinion as ‘garbage’,

THEN

Conceded you have only watched Burnley when they play Villa and that the whole chat that you started is pointless because it’s not going to happen.

Amazing.

4 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

VDB would be a pretty meh signing for me. Might improve and develop into a PL quality player, but right now he isn't. They gambled and it hasn't worked out.

He is in the same bag as Joelinton and Haller, and arguably Wesley.

Stay well clear. Potential we got in our youth team. We need quality.

Never really got a run - behind Pogba and Bruno which is pretty tough going.

22 hours ago, nick76 said:

This is my biggest concern.  To be honest until we were linked with him I hadnt really noticed him much apart from knowing he played for Burnley, was very one footed, had a few little runs and was younger than I thought but I couldnt tell you anymore.  Obviously looked into to him a load more now and some of those YouTube clips look great especially a six minute one.  At 21 as well it's great age to grow with the team.  His goals totals are poor and his assists I would want more....he is in a Burnley side though....I just dont know for 40m, it just seems so much but you can imagine what he could be but you know he may never achieve that. 

My heart was set on some real talent this summer, just a couple that would come into the team as game changers and that was always going to be hard to do.  Maybe because of that I'm not super wowed with Dwight but I would honestly love to have him if that makes sense.  I was just hoping more certainty this summer with signings (If that is even possible) than signings that are potential.  I guess though at 21 he's been playing regularly for Burnley for a couple of seasons so that is about as certain as you can get.

I think I'm going to be second guessing all players we are interested in this summer as I feel it's a big summer and to be honest I think I will be unsure with most signings that we do.  Wished I had the mentality of just welcoming whoever comes in and let what they then do on the pitch do the talking but I know like most I have pre ideas of players based on various sources of information.  Anyway if DM comes in I hope he can have a great career here.

Very well put, great read

2 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Technically superior player, exciting and looks like he could become a real star, one of the most creative players that is attainable, skilful, tenacious, determined, excellent passing range. 
 

I don’t think just looking at stats and numbers is the best way to judge & compare players but Buendia has been performing so well anyway. I know you’ve compared their stats whilst in the PL but could you really see McNeil having so many goals and assists (yes, in the Championship but he has been one of the best players and best performing players in that league for a while) in that Norwich side? And he was also one of the most creative players, stats wise, when he had that season in the PL. Not his fault if he was playing with poor, inferior players.

If Buendia had been playing in the PL for a long as McNeil and in a more established or superior side then I’m confident that he would’ve exceeded his stats - dribbles, goals, assists, even defensive actions.

Regardless of all that, from what I’ve seen of both players, I see Buendia as a much superior and more technically gifted player with more to offer and contribute.

Thank you for the summary - really good.

I do generally agree that Buendia is the better player right now, although I do have some concerns about him being able to do what he’s done in the Championship in the Prem.

I do think there’s a significant chance that in 3 years time when McNeil is 24 he will be far better than Buendia.

Agree to disagree

1 minute ago, MotoMkali said:

Buendia had what 1 and 7 in the prem which is better than McNeil.

I personally don't rate Buendia but McNeil would be a god awful signing. 

McNeil had 2 and 6 in 2019/20 and 3 and 5 from 21 games in 2018/19.

12 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I get that, in honesty, my comment was more aimed at people trying to rubbish people supportive of a " Big , Powerful DM ", by using Kante ( Arguably the best combative midfielder in the world currently IMO ) as an example of why Luiz is the dogs bollox, regardless of " size ".

Simplifying the argument as if it is that straightforward. Kante makes up for what he lacks in size, with literally every other attribute.

Obviously every DM doesn't have to be big, similarly to how every target man doesn't have to be 6 ft 5. However there is a higher chance of a " target man " being successful as a target man, if he is a large and effective target as a base.

There are multiple variables which can add to and detract from that. For example! not every Striker/CF that is Ollie's size, could handle being a lone striker as well as Ollie, even bigger players. That is because of all of Ollie's other attributes.

Maybe if we start saying " strength, athleticism, combativeness, leap, heading " etc people would be more understanding? There is a reason why Nakamba has recently gotten plaudits, and he is no Giant.

In summary, the mid tier DMs tend to be more imposing, when you go up a class, size matters less, as the skill levels and Intelligence goes up and offset the need for certain physical attributes.

I don't have a problem with Luiz, I have a problem with the manipulation of the point people championing a strong and imposing midfielder are trying to make.

Doesn’t that kind of prove their point though?

If Luiz develops his traits further to the elite level then we don’t need a big CDM because Luiz will be more like a Brazilian Kante??

5 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Conversely, shouldn’t he have more assists when he’s being relied on to supply big target men like Wood & Barnes?

If he’s their main creative force then his stats impress even less. The main thing that stands out about him is he has age on his side.

I can see the appeal of signing him for some, young with potential being the most relevant point. But I would not want us to pay more than 15-20m for that when our budget/funds could be better utilised imo. And Burnley would want at least 40m, I suspect. They don’t need to sell him & value him highly. I think that would be a huge waste. Would he really be any better than our existing wingers or attacking players? Or offer more of a contribution? I really don’t see it… it doesn’t strike me as an ambitious or exciting signing. 

We already have the youngest squad and promising youngsters coming through so I would personally prefer a higher class of signing that can genuinely elevate us such as the signings of Martinez & Watkins did. We need players almost comparable to Jack’s level - maybe not quite the same attributes but a similar level of impact and efficiency - if we genuinely want to take another big step forward in our progress and standing next season and lessen our reliance on him.

One way of looking at things is, if we want to fight for top 6/8, is would some of the players we have (e.g. Nakamba) and some of the players we’re allegedly targeting (e.g. McNeil) get into and consistently perform in those first 11s? With those examples, I don’t see it at all so we need better…

Not when Burnley only scores 20 goals from open play all season...

He literally scored 10% and assisted a further 25% of their goals from open play.

I know you think Buendia is class, but what’s the reasoning? As I mentioned last time, McNeil has the same or better PL stats but is younger and has done it for longer?

2 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Pereira more chances and big chances created than McNeil in 500 less minutes. Also 27 shots on target vs 9. Assume they would cost similar and Pereira plays as #10 which we need vs McNeil a left winger in a 442/4411 team I know who I'd prefer

Out of curiosity, do you think McNeil would have less stats in this area due to the way Burnley play? 

If you’re job is to just lob crosses into the box you’re inherently less likely to create chances or big chances. You’re also less likely to be in a shooting position.

Conversely Pereira was West Brom’s main attacking force.

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Who's the one player "dream" if you had to name one? Cock on the block one signing 

Just trying to gauge it, go daft, go realistic, go £1 go £40m, any position any player... Just 1 player 

I'd say brandt £25m

Daichi Kamada for £26 million.

Gettable and Tottenham interested.

8 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Different ways of looking at it, it’s not as straightforward as it may seem. 
 
From my POV Buendia is highly talented and could become a genuine star, a far superior player.

Regardless, I could never see McNeil performing as well and producing the amount of goals and assists as Buendia has in recent years (particularly in the Championship), he is a creative monster.

Anyway, you’re entitled to rate McNeil. I won’t be changing my mind

Haha fair enough.

I do rate Buendia - on the ball he’s the better of the two right now. 

I have a feeling we may end up with both...