Rolta

1 minute ago, MrBlack said:

Timberwolves and 76ers look like they belong to the same parent group.  At least as much as we look like Chelsea at the moment. 

 

Maybe they look like distant cousins. Yet we look like Chelsea's better looking identical twin.

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Neither do ours unless you think a ship and a lion is the same thing.

14 minutes ago, sne said:

There is about 15 franchises in the NBA using round logos very similar to the Philly one. 

• Atlanta Hawks
• Boston Celtics
• Brooklyn Nets
• Charlotte Hornets
• Chicago Bulls
• Cleveland Cavaliers
• Dallas Mavericks
• Denver Nuggets
• Detroit Pistons
• Golden State Warriors
• Houston Rockets
• Indiana Pacers
• Los Angeles Clippers
• Los Angeles Lakers
• Memphis Grizzlies
• Miami Heat
• Milwaukee Bucks
• Minnesota Timberwolves
• New Orleans Pelicans
• New York Knicks
• Oklahoma City Thunder
• Orlando Magic
• Philadelphia 76ers
• Phoenix Suns
• Portland Trail Blazers
• Sacramento Kings
• San Antonio Spurs
• Toronto Raptors
• Utah Jazz

But none of them look idential to another team's badge in the division.

2 minutes ago, sne said:

Philly rocking that City group round badge we supposedly will move away from due to Heck...

They're both circular, but everything inside that outer circle is completely different—and I imagine it doesn't look almost exactly like another team's badge in the same division.

48 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

In the 90s, I used to enjoy studying the villa crest up close and examining the various elements.

I really don't get the drive for simplicity in everything.  OK, I get digital requires it, but have people changed that much since the 90s that they can't handle a bit of intricacy on a badge?

I think you answered your question in the very same sentence! It's not about people changing.

Just do the gaslamp one. It's the only one that looks modern, good, and futureproof. It stands out, looks great. It's right under our claret and blue noses. 

(I've said this a few times now so now I'll be quiet!) 

37 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

2 LCBs both left footed that play LCB. Managers like natural footed CBs for outball and please no exception to the rule John Terry replies 

Also Konsa was one of our best no frills players last season. The disrespect for him is shocking

You're making a lot of statements here as fact that you don't really know. And telling people not to point out exceptions to the rule is just silly.

As for Konsa—well, it'll have to be Mings or Konsa who drops out. And If Mings is more the destroyer then he's the one who would complement Torres, not Konsa. Managers like to have a blend of different types of cenre back, and please no exception to the rule replies.

I don't get why Mings and Torres couldn't play together.

12 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Yeah, teenagers always want to show off and be edgy - hence why this Andrew Tate word removed has gained a lot of traction with them, I guess. 

Spain's reputation for racism is what makes me very hesitant to give them any benefit of the doubt when it comes to this blackface fiasco. 

Having been here a while, I think this example in the King's parade is just more of a naive throwback, and that won't exist soon enough. As mentioned, Madrid doesn't do it any more, but that's only happened in the last few years.

Thousands and thousands of people come to watch these parades year on year—putting someone in blackface as Balthazar has existed for the entirety of people's lives—everyone grew up with it without exception. Maybe I should say millions of people—everyone experienced it, not just the racists. It's normal here, and the origin for it is 100% more innocent than minstrel shows etc. Spain were a white nigh on mono-culture under a dictator for fifty years while we were developing into a more multicultural society, learning and adapting along the way. Spain never went through that process, and there are clearly going to be consequences and differences.

For me it's understandable that deeply engrained cultural touchstones like the king's parade might have a couple of details that need to evolve, but societies as a whole move very slowly. I genuinely don't think we can use our frames of reference for blackface when it comes to the King's parade. It'll work its way out. People hold on to tradition tightly clearly. Still plenty of racists here though—I just think it's a separate issue.

55 minutes ago, lexicon said:

The article you linked specifically states that these minstrel shows toured Europe too. Furthermore, there was no distinction that they were just mocking 'a race of people in the USA' - it was all black people. 

Countries have not existed in a vacuum for a very, very long time. 

What are your thoughts on these other examples in Spain?

 

 

 

 

What if these people say 'What?!, it's just a form of reverence'?  

I think I've said it before, but to add to this I have never been in a country with so many openly racist people than in Spain. Tbh, at times it's a bit like 14 year olds (they're the worst) and 30 year olds and 55 year olds were all born in the 1930s. The country still has a lot of growing up to do on that front. Sometimes it comes across as a collective machoism (for want of a better word), the very definition of toxicity—like with the kids I teach. They show off via being racist and sexist and homophobic. There's a big emphasis on confidence and cockiness, like anywhere, but sometimes I wonder whether here the rolemodels seem to be the worst possible examples—controvertial bullshitters who gain kudos from just showing off in dumb ways. I wonder sometimes whether Madrid is giving me a skewed impression as it's basically still got one foot in Franco's shadow. The other example of racism is from the snobby, paranoid middle classes who are not happy with non-white anything.

But there are scales to this, as has been mentioned. Some people here don't think about blacking up as controvertial, particularly in the Kings parade. But I've never been anywhere where people are so tribalised and think en mass the exact same things (and yet then I think of England and I realise we just have our own flavour. Yet, although we have racist people, I don't think the spread in the UK is so widespread across all different crisscrossing strata), which makes it difficult to really pinpoint true, deeply held racism. As I said in the Monchi thread, I think it's easy to look past the Kings parade example, appreciating that most of Spanish society has never ever even once batted an eye, that they haven't been multicultural for very long, that they were under a dictator until the late 70s, so they're possibly 'a bit behind on that front' and balance it out with the strong words he's said speaking out against racism.

31 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Any signing has the potential be a sh*t signing, you should know all to well as an Evertonian.

46 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

Said everyone ever about every signing ever made ever. 

I believe he said it because Meunier sounds like manure.

1 hour ago, ml1dch said:

Anyone remember this? Liz Truss, visionary, believing that Russia shouldn't be in charge of Rostov.

She seems to have forgotten the name of her own country in there too when she says the bit about Great Britain not recognising the regions. Maybe she feels a deep connection to the island of Great Britain and knows things we don't. 

2 hours ago, Trensa said:

Nope, there are a lot of cultures and POV around the world.

The woke movement is only a thing in USA and, as I can see, UK.

There are a tons of traditions around the world where people paint their faces, black, yellow, brown or whatever, and any of these people do it cause a racist tradition, It just a tradition and It is completely separate from any mean thing.

Here, in Seville, we have a traditional holy week, where we make a thing called "pasos", we show on the streets our saints, like wooden sculptures of this saints, and the members of this procession who walk along this images are dressed like this:

 

 

So, any f year, we have to read or hear the woke/uncultured people, maninly, from USA, saying that this is a empowerment of KKK and we should change this kind of dress for another one and most "cofradías" are from 200/300 years ago when KKK was not a thing.

The first "three Reyes Magos" are from the end of century XIX and, now, cause a few wokes say that is racism It have to stop.

Yeap.

I am starting to think that the first racist are the woke followers cause they see racism in places where I can even imagine.

This post is woke. It's the definition of woke.

I think 'the woke movement' is mostly probably in your head. There's no movement. To me it seems as if some people in the media/public can't filter, or find it useful overrepresenting what a minority of people say on Twitter. I'm sure it feels like a 'movement', especially if people keep going on about it around you, in the media or whatever. It's certainly seems easy to wind up the people who fall for the 'fear the woke' narrative. But pigeonholing a billion things as woke or imagining pretend movements is equally cringeworthy.

Yes there are annoying people out there. They always were there. Just now with social media we get to hear everyone's opinions, especially the loudest ones. That goes for the stressed-about-the-woke as much as the people they're upset by. Different people are right at different times as far as I can see. 

But you preaching complexity to the situation in your post is woke. Just in this instance you're on the 'right' side—you just consider yourself to be right. Maybe another day you might be wrong and the person you think is woke is right. Maybe another day neither of you are. I live in Madrid and I appreciate the culture is different here so I agree with you. But in the singing show Tu Cara Me Suena they did give the blacked up lady playing Tina Turner a crazy big nose prosthetic too. But then maybe I shouldn't over represent the decision of about two people to do it as if it has a bigger significance.

1 hour ago, Farlz said:

 

This time last year, this would have been sadly a bit depressing. Now it's a delight. What a turnaround. The previous manager did McGinn no favours—he's been so good since Emery came in, and all there is is love.

3 minutes ago, MarkLillis said:

Really is it all that bad?

it’s just another kit 

It looks like Burnley because they wear Claret and Blue just like us.

For me I just won’t buy them no matter what simply because of the price and the fact that( like all kits) they have a use by date.

To be fair, like every kit it's growing on me. The only one I never came round to was the one with the weird twisty shoulders.

It looks OK—better on Ollie and Kamara, where it's a little looser, than on McGinn though.

I think the worst thing is the sponsor. It just doesn't fit the delicate lines of the rest of it—it's just a splodgy ugly bubbly bit of stupid pap.

18 minutes ago, villanmac said:

Basically Chris Heck has come in, seen the new badge and said Boooooooorinnng.

In fairness the new badge was the safe choice, pretty bland. Obviously better than the previous monstrosity but i imagine we can do better and be a bit more dynamic/forward thinking even if it will rattle plenty of cages.

 

I'd agree if this was the case. The new badge is so boring. And it hardly looks original or establishes a unique brand identity. It's also a bit dull on the kit imo.

It's OK. Better than what we have, but also duller too.

7 minutes ago, mrchnry said:

Im amazed that they've managed to come out with such an underwhelming shirt with that beautiful new badge. Really disappointing that is. 

I'd list them both as underwhelming. Maybe the shirt less so.

3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

It may be that *I'm* confused by what 'sportswashing' means, because I don't really see how 'paying Bernardo Silva lots of money' is going to change what lots of people think about the Saudi government, in much the same way that 'paying Oscar lots of money' didn't noticeably (to me anyway) change what people thought about the Chinese government. 

I think it all gives a sense of credibility and upstandingness. Any human rights/murdering issues—by not being talked about in the 'collective uncoscious' or whatever—somehow don't seem to matter. I guess as human beings we're tribal and are guilty of a lot of groupthink. And it can be generational too—I now know 14 year old Spanish kids who know the names of a group of the Saudi teams. These kids see footballers going to Saudi Arabia and suddenly they're interested, and any suggestion there might be concerns about Saudi Arabia's regime don't seem to have any credence while there are so few critical voices in their lives. All they associate with Saudi Arabia at the moment is exciting footballers and them being legitimate players in the football world. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few shirts from these teams in Madrid next year—although now I've said that Madrid might be the place most in thrall to money and power that I've ever been.

15 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

In fairness, it's not even about being a " theist " or not mate.

It's about mutual respect.

I think the religion was brought up in relation to Saudi seemingly targeting Muslim players ( Which would make sense )

Anyway, we've got alot of other stuff to argue about that to get into yet another OT moral debate lol.

This is very woke of you. (I'm joking, but also not because this is what woke means!)

2 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Like we can't put a definition on what a woman is.

It's all become ridiculous 

How many people are actually imposing that on you? I'd wager you haven't met a single person. Yet woke as a catch all pejorative hammered home article after article, day after day, by presidential wannabes and cabinet MPs, and a vast, broad, biggest section of the media. It's incomparable, for me, and I'd even argue this very false equivalence shows how powerful a thing the word 'woke' has become in winding people up and dividing people.

I doubt you're against listening to other people's points of view, and I imagine most people who fear 'the wokening' would actually be pretty open to at least listening to someone who feels trans or gender neutral or whatever, in the name of understanding. But that's not on the cards, first because the relative population of trans or non binary people is very low, and second because nobody in the media, the loudest part of it, the part the makes the most issue out of this topic (and makes the most money and sway from weaponising it), are remotely interested in listening to anyone who it actually affects. 

28 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

Before people condemn Monchi, take a bit of time to research the yearly celebration that concludes Christmas in Spain. It's called the "Cabalgata de los Reyes Magos", and is a much looked forward to celebration especially for the children.

The three Kings that are supposed to have visited the baby Jesus in the stable, make a procession through the streets given out copious amounts of sweets to the children. These Kings wear their historical robes and as "Balthasar" was a black man he is always portrayed with a black face. It is considered an honour to be asked to represent one of the Kings, and Spaniards would be dismayed to think that this is considered offensive by "far away football fans" who seem to have very little idea about their culture.

Monchi is a superb new 'signing' and this is what we should be discussing on this thread in my opinion. 

 

I like the Monchi video where he says some pretty strong anti racist statements. Living in Madrid, as far as I'm aware the actual blacking up in the three kings Christmas parade has stopped now. Maybe it was an honour though when it was more common. And it was common until very recently, and people didn't even bat an eye. It probably does still happen elsewhere in smaller places than Madrid. The thing is there's no historic minstrel culture or history of that kind of thing here like we have in the USA or the UK. It is different. 

Going back to the video, he didn't have to say that. He didn't have to put his face and name to standing up to racism. His words in this case really do seem enough to dispel this conversation and put his role as Balzazar down to a bit of a quirk of Spanish culture, which is different and has always had differences to our own. That's not to say things aren't changing in Spain though. I have a lot of stories of genuine racism from my time here, and anyone can see there's quite a visible problem in stadiums and among football fans—and I could tell some tales about undoubtedly racist successful business people too—but, yeah, the video...Monchi seems to have put his name explicitly behind being part of the solution and not the problem.

1 hour ago, AvonVillain said:

An even more inconsistent Leon Bailey / Traore-type and folk are frothing at the mouth at the potential signing? Seems an odd one.

It would be odd if all you needed to make a decision on the signing was the opinion of two people on a forum.

On the other hand, we have a great manager worth a lot of faith, and Nico Williams is very highly rated for a reason. Neither Traore nor Bailey would be getting in the Spain squad—and neither of them are that quick either.